[Milton Fox Racing]

This 3 pack is from 2016 and has the same yellow C5 Corvette approximation with red and blue tampos and different #s? The red one is a Mercedes-Benz and the blue an NSX again(?)


Greenbrier Die Cast Cars 3 Pack by Milton Fox, on Flickr

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

This 3 pack dates back to 2017. The green one is a Mercedes. The orange one I believe is called a Ford Sierra and the purple one is another Viper. I was still seeing these on the pegs at Dollar General as late as last fall iIIRC.


2017 Greenbrier Diecast 3 Pack by Milton Fox, on Flickr

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

Very well maybe, but speculation is just speculation after all. One of these is marked as Greenbrier and the other two are not.


DSC_0504 by Milton Fox, on Flickr


DSC_0502 by Milton Fox, on Flickr

So at present the facts are Greenbrier on the casting and Greenbrier on the packaging makes them a Greenbrier product.

Has or does either Kaixin or Pioneer distributed these models under their own names? :lurk05:

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

None of these casting are in the Summer listings posted today.

A quick search though for Suntoys does show the Viper, the Sierra and few others as the exact castings now package by Greenbrier. So I am leaning towards Suntoys as the maker and not Summer. It also fits better to the information from Kimmo, Dave and Marks small diecast book about Suntoys.

Since @juantoo3 already has both Greenbrier, Summer and Suntoys each listed as individual entries in his posted small scale master listings. How is it that you would update the listings - in this case -as to 'maker' 'factory' and 'trade' names you have mentioned elsewher? :lurk5:

I am still hesitant about the NSX - as it does not appear as a previous Suntoy casting (or Summer). And it is the one embossed with the Greenbrier name.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

I have also found some Corvette's in 1:24 scale at Tuesday Morning. The first one was only called by the Lollipop Toys brand, but the most recent one had an added sticker with the Brooklyn name on it. I will need to see if they are sealed or if I can open it and research the base marking on it.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

Very good! I just posted the Summer list I have, you might want to review it and make any corrections. I had to rely heavily on the contributions of others for that list.

Do you have a Suntoys casting list?

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

I also noticed that at least two castingsin in the Lollipops multipack that @juantoo3 shows both have the same front end tab design as the Greenbrier packaged ones do.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

I also noticed that at least two castingsin in the Lollipops multipack that @juantoo3 shows both have the same front end tab design as the Greenbrier packaged ones do.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

This is the card back from 2015. The one I just purchased is essentially the same.

2017 Greenbrier Diecast 3 Pack by Milton Fox, on Flickr[/IMG]

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

That isn't particularly surprising, it is a construction method that requires spinning fewer posts...hook one end and spin one post and on down the line it goes to the next process. (Hot Wheels even tried it for a time, there is a burgundy Nomad from the mid-1990's that can be found with two posts and hook/post base variants.)

I dont know about the ones in your multipack, but as shown above the Greenbrier ones I have are tabbed at both ends.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

With the added information I would lean that way as well.


It is possible the name Greenbriar came up before. I did not vet every name on that list, the names were provided by a long list of individuals...one could say Eric "tricked" us into a game and we all tried to outdo each other coming up with obscure names, but we did have to supply images to support those claims. Names on the base were acceptable, so my guess is someone not unlike yourself showed a model with Greenbriar on the base...which got it added to the list. As I pointed to with Ja-Ru and MarzKarz, both of which are well known and understood examples of distributors being mistaken for makers, it does happen, particularly with the obscure cheapie brands that get marketed in a long list of trade names. I think the work of Kimmo, Dave and Mark is very thorough up to the point they published, but it has been about 15 years since then and nobody I know of has kept the detailed tracing of every one of these obscure (no-name, generic) Chinese makers. I have peripheral interest, but most of my focus has been on vintage stuff (so I've been wrapped up the past few years in Hubley, Budgie, Benbros, Konami and pre-production stuff).

To answer your question directly, if we can presume at this point these are Suntoys models, and if I can presume Suntoys has taken over the Summer production facility, then Suntoys would be the factory and likely also the maker. Greenbriar would be the distributor in any case, and likely contracted Suntoys to produce the models wholesale which Greenbriar then wholesaled to (in this case) Dollar Tree for retail sale. That would be my best guess, but there are variables along the supply chain that can affect the answer. If we can determine that these "Greenbriar" models are the same or substantially similar (possible minor modifications) to known Suntoys castings, then I would be comfortable calling them Suntoys and that is how I would categorize them. Your mileage may vary... Typically the trade name is on the front of the packaging...apart from the number 3 on yours and the word "pack" and the French equivalent, I don't really see any other distinguishing trade dress across the packages. In that case I would look on the back to see if there were any information, but so many of these are blank, and I am presuming yours are too. That leaves little to go on, but Greenbriar would potentially be the trade name as well, or "3" or "3 pack" if it weren't that the cars are packaged 3 to a pack. The cheaper the generics get, the less information to go on. It has been suggested on more than one occasion this might be to skirt licensing requirements...can't enforce infringement if you can't trace who actually made them...


It really is not at all unusual. If, by the company it keeps (packaged in the same pack) it is with Suntoys models (I'm still leaving a sliver of doubt), I would be inclined to think it is a Suntoys model, in spite of what is on the base. Bases get modified routinely. Take a look at the connection between Yatming and Imperial or Road Champs. Granted, there it was paper labels covering the source...in this case Yatming...but once out of the package and little fingers picking off the label there is nothing to distinguish how the car was released to market. That would be a fair argument. But what of other times when models were / are contracted and the base *is* changed? Can't really point to Ertl-RC-JL because that wasn't contracting, but I can point to High Speed-Grell-Malibu International and likely Schuco. High Speed models sold as Grell had the Grell company logo on the base. Likewise with Malibu International...and I would not be the least surprised if the same is true with the Schuco issues of High Speed models. So changing the base is not unheard of, and with a bit of looking around I am sure I can come up with more examples. Bases get changed all the time, and is probably one of the easiest (certainly most common) modifications made to tools. So having the Greenbriar name on the base is good, certainly something if nothing else is available, but not an absolute identifier...as we see once again with Imperial and Road Champs.

Then it is also a possiblity that Greenbrier has taken over for Suntoys. Just like Suntoys did for some of the Summer castings.

So the answer would be to leave Greenbrier as a new 'maker". Show them linked to Suntoys which is linked back to Summer.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

I have not vetted many of the casting names that Eric provided or that Sam provided either. That is the entire point of ths overall endeavor. But, unlike people like yourself, I am not as skeptical as to what other people like me provide. If a mistake is made. Then a mistake is made. Those can be corrected or accounted for. It is when someone keeps posting the same disinformation about the same or mulitiple castings that they begin to discredit themselves. That takes care of itself over time.

Which leaves us with the 'distributor' issue - does that need to be considered or ignored in the master listings?

:lurk05:

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

I think we have our answer...."Imported by" Greenbriar.

And the answer would be?

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

Then it appears I misunderstood. You were speaking of the suspension tabs, which are a common method of giving a little spring among the cheapie models...but also makes them very delicate and easily broken.

Again no, end tabs are end tabs - not axle tabs.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

The mistake people make about the copy right date on HWs is constantly being made literally everyday on any auction web site. Knowledgeable and causel collectors have tried to explain the difference and it can easily be found with a quck search, but eveyone gets tired of having to correct someone new about every day. And yes it is apparent you try to show examples that support your view point. So dont ignore the distributor is your position for the listings. I am pretty good at finding answers so when I run across a '1988' casting I will give it a shot. I have an Imperial stickered car with that same reference and an Imperial car without the sticker that I also catalogue as not an Imperial for the same reason. And 10 years from now someone will still have the same informatoin about the NSX as is posted here like you say with posted supportive images. :cheers2:

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

Seriously? It means Greenbriar is a distributor. If you notice, there is a different distributor for Canada. Greenbriar is not the maker.

Yes seriously in regards to the master list. Am I not undestanding you to recommend Greenbrier be listed as a distributor. And when we can somehow confirm who actually makes them for them to distribute that informatoin can also be confirmed. Right now it would be Suntoys as the most likely maker.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

Possible but not likely, and since we now have pictorial evidence that points to Greenbriar being a distributor, then I would say REALLY not likely. Distributors are not factories, each serves a very different purpose in the supply chain.

Like with Mattel who makes, markets, and distributes Hot Wheels and Matchbox.

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

Well, you know what they say - "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink it."

As you noted previously though - maybe ten years from now someone will indeed be able to say that the NSX by Greenbrier was the first ever casting Greenbrier had designed or designed themselves and then contracted to be built for them, but still hadn't developed or bought a brand name to distribute them under. That is until they bought the Hot Wheels or Matchbox name - or both from the still struggling Mattel and started distributing them at the dollar stores in just two packs you know, becasuse including 3 cars wouldnt be as profitable.

Is possibles, no?

 

[Milton Fox Racing]

So in the progression of Greenbrier as the importer of otherwise unlabeled carded 3 packs you can find at Dollar Trees, I picked these two up in December 2019. This one still has the same 3 car mix of the Corvette C5, Viper, and a 4 seat NSX as previous 3 packs. Here the tampo designs on each have changed, the interiors are now a grey/dark silver and the Corvette C5 has an orange tinted window piece now.


2019 Greenbrier Diecasts by Milton Fox, on Flickr


This 3 pack mix contains a Mercedes Coupe, Ford Sierra and a Mercedes Sedan. The Mercedes Coupe also now has an orange tinted window, each has the silver/grey interiors and new tampo designs. I also found this one in December 2019 at the same Dollar Tree location.


2019 Greenbrier Diecasts by Milton Fox, on Flickr


Each has the same card back design and listed information.


2019 Greenbrier Diecasts by Milton Fox, on Flickr