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10K views 41 replies 4 participants last post by  Milton Fox Racing  
#1 ·
I found a new mix of their 3 packs the other day. Looks like the tampos are no longer being used.

You can find these at Dollar Tree currently.

I find them quircky overall, but at 3 for a $1.00 a cheap indulgence to get what used to be a C5 Corvette model in yellow. Pretty sure the red one is suppose to be a Viper and I thought the blue one was a 1st generation NSX, but it has 4 seats. A new flickr follower has most of these catalogued and I need to take the time to go back and update my own photos of them.

For an inexpensive casting they roll freely, but not very far or straight. So not a track car candidate. And they come with a window piece, an interior with some details and a even a detailed base with casting numbers.

2019 Greenbrier International 3 Pack by Milton Fox, on Flickr
 
#2 · (Edited)
This 3 pack is from 2016 and has the same yellow C5 Corvette approximation with red and blue tampos and different #s? The red one is a Mercedes-Benz and the blue an NSX again(?)


Greenbrier Die Cast Cars 3 Pack by Milton Fox, on Flickr
 
#3 ·
This 3 pack dates back to 2017. The green one is a Mercedes. The orange one I believe is called a Ford Sierra and the purple one is another Viper. I was still seeing these on the pegs at Dollar General as late as last fall iIIRC.


2017 Greenbrier Diecast 3 Pack by Milton Fox, on Flickr
 
#5 ·
I saw these....and passed at the time. Not like I don't have enough cats to chase.

The question I have, is Greenbriar the maker...or the distributor? Sometimes models get lumped under the distributor because that's the only name on the package...Ja-Ru or MarzKarz for example, both of which marketed known Summer castings.

I can't see enough of these to tell, and when it comes to the cheapies I get lost quickly, but my best guess is these are likely from one of the budget line makers out there now like Kaixin or Pioneer.
 
#6 ·
Very well maybe, but speculation is just speculation after all. One of these is marked as Greenbrier and the other two are not.


DSC_0504 by Milton Fox, on Flickr


DSC_0502 by Milton Fox, on Flickr

So at present the facts are Greenbrier on the casting and Greenbrier on the packaging makes them a Greenbrier product.

Has or does either Kaixin or Pioneer distributed these models under their own names? :lurk05:
 
#9 ·
These are Suntoys (& I believe Suntoys was/is? connected to Summer).
I have been collecting Summer for a very long time & have an extensive list of what I have up until 2002 (then a few bits added later up to 2014).
Summers original numbers ran from #671 up to #700 (some numbers had 'S' in front of them).
The next batch of numbers #8000 up to #9614 (again some numbers had 'S' in front + also 'F' behind the number).
When the numbers reached #8701, some cars are found with #701. These '700' numbers continued up to #745.
Then numbers start at #8802 up to #9614 (my last from the Original run of SUMMER cars.)
After this came a '900' series. These are 'Summer' castings but poorer quality. (still made by Summer? or now 'Suntoys?)
This series ran from #903 to #927.(Sometimes with a 'A' behind the number).
Next comes a continuation of the '900' series numbers ... but this time All new castings. (Again.. Summer? or Suntoys?)
These numbers ran from #927 to #934.
We then get Suntoys with #9270 up to #9802. From #9803 to #9817 we also get some with '000' added to the end of the number.
From then on Suntoys started making the better quality diecast cars with the 'L9800' numbers.
There is definately a period where Summer & Suntoys are connected (& still a possibility the same company.!). :roll:
 
#7 ·
Both Kaixin and Pioneer are quintessential "no name / generic" made in China cheapies. I know enough about either to get in trouble.


I found this multicar set in Tuesday Morning a couple months back, labelled Brooklyn Lollipops. I was informed these are Kaixin. Someone else showed up with a three or four pack of some of these same models - color, wheels, tampos - under yet a different name that escapes me at this moment. Out of the package I doubt a person could tell them apart.

That is the way it is commercially with the cheapie makers, they are meant to shut a kid up for an afternoon and get tossed when it gets stepped on or left on the living room carpet or disappears into the sandbox under the shade tree. They aren't meant to be kept or collected. (There are other factors at play too, but that is the dominant part of the story)
 

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#8 ·
A quick look at the Summer database shows quite a few 9000 series Summer models. Odd, because I haven't seen anything clearly attributable to Summer for a good while now, probably close to ten years. In that time an upstart has come along that makes me think they might be peripherally associated with Summer, a new outfit called Suntoys.


Suntoys sometimes puts their name, sometimes not (Summer did the same), and it looks like Suntoys also used a 9000 series numbering system for their models...

The construction doesn't appear to be the same as yours though, in particular the "tab" suspension.

Maybe I should have paid better attention to these, but like I said I have enough cats to chase. Greenbriar would be a newcomer, if it turns out to be correct.
 

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#11 · (Edited)
None of these casting are in the Summer listings posted today.

A quick search though for Suntoys does show the Viper, the Sierra and few others as the exact castings now package by Greenbrier. So I am leaning towards Suntoys as the maker and not Summer. It also fits better to the information from Kimmo, Dave and Marks small diecast book about Suntoys.

Since @juantoo3 already has both Greenbrier, Summer and Suntoys each listed as individual entries in his posted small scale master listings. How is it that you would update the listings - in this case -as to 'maker' 'factory' and 'trade' names you have mentioned elsewher? :lurk5:

I am still hesitant about the NSX - as it does not appear as a previous Suntoy casting (or Summer). And it is the one embossed with the Greenbrier name.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Milton Fox Racing said:
So I am leaning towards Suntoys as the maker and not Summer. It also fits better to the information from Kimmo, Dave and Marks small diecast book about Suntoys.
Click to expand...
With the added information I would lean that way as well.

Since juantoo3 already has both Greenbrier, Summer and Suntoys each listed as individual entries in his posted small scale master listings. How is it that you would update the listings - in this case -as to 'maker' 'factory' and 'trade' names you have mentioned elsewhere?
Click to expand...
It is possible the name Greenbriar came up before. I did not vet every name on that list, the names were provided by a long list of individuals...one could say Eric "tricked" us into a game and we all tried to outdo each other coming up with obscure names, but we did have to supply images to support those claims. Names on the base were acceptable, so my guess is someone not unlike yourself showed a model with Greenbriar on the base...which got it added to the list. As I pointed to with Ja-Ru and MarzKarz, both of which are well known and understood examples of distributors being mistaken for makers, it does happen, particularly with the obscure cheapie brands that get marketed in a long list of trade names. I think the work of Kimmo, Dave and Mark is very thorough up to the point they published, but it has been about 15 years since then and nobody I know of has kept the detailed tracing of every one of these obscure (no-name, generic) Chinese makers. I have peripheral interest, but most of my focus has been on vintage stuff (so I've been wrapped up the past few years in Hubley, Budgie, Benbros, Konami and pre-production stuff).

To answer your question directly, if we can presume at this point these are Suntoys models, and if I can presume Suntoys has taken over the Summer production facility, then Suntoys would be the factory and likely also the maker. Greenbriar would be the distributor in any case, and likely contracted Suntoys to produce the models wholesale which Greenbriar then wholesaled to (in this case) Dollar Tree for retail sale. That would be my best guess, but there are variables along the supply chain that can affect the answer. If we can determine that these "Greenbriar" models are the same or substantially similar (possible minor modifications) to known Suntoys castings, then I would be comfortable calling them Suntoys and that is how I would categorize them. Your mileage may vary... Typically the trade name is on the front of the packaging...apart from the number 3 on yours and the word "pack" and the French equivalent, I don't really see any other distinguishing trade dress across the packages. In that case I would look on the back to see if there were any information, but so many of these are blank, and I am presuming yours are too. That leaves little to go on, but Greenbriar would potentially be the trade name as well, or "3" or "3 pack" if it weren't that the cars are packaged 3 to a pack. The cheaper the generics get, the less information to go on. It has been suggested on more than one occasion this might be to skirt licensing requirements...can't enforce infringement if you can't trace who actually made them...

I am still hesitant about the NSX - as it does not appear as a previous Suntoy casting (or Summer). And it is the one embossed with the Greenbrier name.
Click to expand...
It really is not at all unusual. If, by the company it keeps (packaged in the same pack) it is with Suntoys models (I'm still leaving a sliver of doubt), I would be inclined to think it is a Suntoys model, in spite of what is on the base. Bases get modified routinely. Take a look at the connection between Yatming and Imperial or Road Champs. Granted, there it was paper labels covering the source...in this case Yatming...but once out of the package and little fingers picking off the label there is nothing to distinguish how the car was released to market. That would be a fair argument. But what of other times when models were / are contracted and the base *is* changed? Can't really point to Ertl-RC-JL because that wasn't contracting, but I can point to High Speed-Grell-Malibu International and likely Schuco. High Speed models sold as Grell had the Grell company logo on the base. Likewise with Malibu International...and I would not be the least surprised if the same is true with the Schuco issues of High Speed models. So changing the base is not unheard of, and with a bit of looking around I am sure I can come up with more examples. Bases get changed all the time, and is probably one of the easiest (certainly most common) modifications made to tools. So having the Greenbriar name on the base is good, certainly something if nothing else is available, but not an absolute identifier...as we see once again with Imperial and Road Champs.
 
#12 ·
I have also found some Corvette's in 1:24 scale at Tuesday Morning. The first one was only called by the Lollipop Toys brand, but the most recent one had an added sticker with the Brooklyn name on it. I will need to see if they are sealed or if I can open it and research the base marking on it.
 
#17 ·
That isn't particularly surprising, it is a construction method that requires spinning fewer posts...hook one end and spin one post and on down the line it goes to the next process. (Hot Wheels even tried it for a time, there is a burgundy Nomad from the mid-1990's that can be found with two posts and hook/post base variants.)
 
#19 ·
About a year and a half, maybe 2 years ago, a Roses store opened here locally. I found these inside:

To date no one has been able to identify them. I don't have a clue. Yet again...no-name, generic, "made in China" playthings meant to be tossed.
 

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#23 ·
I have not vetted many of the casting names that Eric provided or that Sam provided either. That is the entire point of ths overall endeavor. But, unlike people like yourself, I am not as skeptical as to what other people like me provide. If a mistake is made. Then a mistake is made. Those can be corrected or accounted for. It is when someone keeps posting the same disinformation about the same or mulitiple castings that they begin to discredit themselves. That takes care of itself over time.

Which leaves us with the 'distributor' issue - does that need to be considered or ignored in the master listings?

:lurk05:
 
#28 ·
Disinformation? Like people who insist a Hot Wheel was made in 1969 when it was actually made last year? Because "it says so right there on the base, see?"

Difference with the information I provide is that I try to show examples to support what I am trying to say. I may sometimes be misunderstood, and I don't get everything always, and if I'm guessing I say I'm guessing. BIG difference than with some people.

Ignoring or not the distributor issue is a matter of choice. I choose to put the distributor *under* the maker, not as a brand unto itself, because they are not the maker. But that is my choice.

So, a question for you would be who makes, distributes or otherwise "controls" 1988 castings? A bit of a trick question, because to this point nobody knows, and the only common feature between the dozen or so castings is "1988" on the license plate...so that is what collectors use to ID these models. They could have been made by any of a number of makers, and distributed through any number of distribution chains, collectors don't have access to that information...so they've settled on 1988 to distinguish from other models.

There is a late run of models sold as Imperial (also a distributor, but they did sell under their own name) and as Buddy L (after Imperial bought the rights to that name) sometime mid-late 1990s. Nobody knows who the actual maker is (I suspect High Speed but have been unable to connect the dots). So even though we know, for fact, Imperial is a toy distributor (everything from paddle balls to marbles to inexpensive dolls), we have no choice left but to attribute these nice looking models to Imperial. It is about what the community settles on.


I have no doubt ten years from now, when this conversation is long forgotten, there will be those who having just found a copy of your NSX, that will call it Greenbriar, and others will agree, because they will have little other reference unless we can somehow clarify it now. Easier said than done.
 
#32 ·
The mistake people make about the copy right date on HWs is constantly being made literally everyday on any auction web site. Knowledgeable and causel collectors have tried to explain the difference and it can easily be found with a quck search, but eveyone gets tired of having to correct someone new about every day. And yes it is apparent you try to show examples that support your view point. So dont ignore the distributor is your position for the listings. I am pretty good at finding answers so when I run across a '1988' casting I will give it a shot. I have an Imperial stickered car with that same reference and an Imperial car without the sticker that I also catalogue as not an Imperial for the same reason. And 10 years from now someone will still have the same informatoin about the NSX as is posted here like you say with posted supportive images. :cheers2:
 
#38 ·
Well, you know what they say - "you can lead a horse to water, but you cant make him drink it."

As you noted previously though - maybe ten years from now someone will indeed be able to say that the NSX by Greenbrier was the first ever casting Greenbrier had designed or designed themselves and then contracted to be built for them, but still hadn't developed or bought a brand name to distribute them under. That is until they bought the Hot Wheels or Matchbox name - or both from the still struggling Mattel and started distributing them at the dollar stores in just two packs you know, becasuse including 3 cars wouldnt be as profitable.

Is possibles, no? :D
 
#40 ·
So in the progression of Greenbrier as the importer of otherwise unlabeled carded 3 packs you can find at Dollar Trees, I picked these two up in December 2019. This one still has the same 3 car mix of the Corvette C5, Viper, and a 4 seat NSX as previous 3 packs. Here the tampo designs on each have changed, the interiors are now a grey/dark silver and the Corvette C5 has an orange tinted window piece now.


2019 Greenbrier Diecasts by Milton Fox, on Flickr


This 3 pack mix contains a Mercedes Coupe, Ford Sierra and a Mercedes Sedan. The Mercedes Coupe also now has an orange tinted window, each has the silver/grey interiors and new tampo designs. I also found this one in December 2019 at the same Dollar Tree location.


2019 Greenbrier Diecasts by Milton Fox, on Flickr


Each has the same card back design and listed information.


2019 Greenbrier Diecasts by Milton Fox, on Flickr
 
#41 · (Edited)
Here is the latest mix of the 2 available 3 packs of cars you can get at Dollar Tree. I just picked them up last week (Aug 2020). The body colors and tampo designs on each are carried forward, but this time the interiors are black. It is hard to determine if the orange window pieces are darker this time - especially with the Corvette C5 or if it is just the light reflection differences with the black interiors - making both look darker than before. The card backs are again essentially the same information and design as the previous versions except for the number series under the UPC code. This time the last 6 digits have changed to end in - 110119


2020 Greenbrier 3 Pack Cars by Milton Fox, on Flickr
2020 Greenbrier 3 Pack Cars by Milton Fox, on Flickr
2020 Greenbrier 3 Pack Cars by Milton Fox, on Flickr
 
#42 ·
In the ongoing discussion of who actually makes these cars the general consensus is that the Suntoys factory is the maker. Greenbrier is the importer. And they are distributed by Dollar General in the USA.

In Canada, the importer is shown as AU Canada DTSC. Can any of our Canadian diecast collectors share where they are finding these (if you are)? And are they under the same umbrella of Greenbrier - who is the parent company of Dollar Tree.

On the Suntoys web site itself - there is currently no trace of either of these six castings currently also being offered as a Suntoys product. But other Greenbrier imported diecast vehicles that are available at Dollar Trees in their Military, Vacation and various play sets are! The web site shown names, graphics and packaging are also similar to what can be found at Dollar Trees but not exactly the same as well.

Another web site discovery at Suntoys is the brand name label of Express (unclear) individual boxed and play set diecasts that have been found at Dollar General store locations in the past. Dollar General is also a subsiderary company of Greenbrier International. I have not seen them at our Dollar General locations though since I restarted collecting in 2016.
 
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