I believe the Constellation could have been restored, since most of the ship was intact.

 

Its hard to say, the interior didn't look too bad, but both warp nacelles were completely trashed.

The real issue was not whether it could be salvaged. After all the Enterprise did take it in tow. The Doomsday Machine kind of settled the matter by making it necessary to sacrifice the Constellation in order to save the Enterprise. I like to think that if that hadn't happened the Constellation might have been salvaged.

I don't think its the same situation with the Enterprise D. There had to have been a lot more damage to the underside of the Saucer section that we couldnt see as a result of the crash landing. And then there's the effort in getting that severely damaged section back into orbit on a planet with no facilities whatsoever. No, it was probably more practical to abandon the D to her fate.

 

With respect to the abandonment of the Enterprise-D saucer to its fate, I highly recommend that you all check out the first... ten or so chapters of William Shatner's book "The Return." It begins a month after Generations and deals with the salvage of the Enterprise-D saucer; not restoration for later use, mind you, but carving up for scrap. I believe the damage to the Enterprise-D saucer--both internal and external--would have left very little worth salvaging for restoration beyond the topside external hull and the saucer's frame itself. With the stardrive section destroyed and the inside of the ship ripped apart, I can see why Starfleet would abandon the ship. As for the Constellation, one most remember that there were only twelve Constitution-class starships in service according to TOS, and at least during the 2200's. After the Enterprise-class program began (refitting the ships into the glorious version that we were blessed with first in The Motion Picture and the subsequent five movies), it's likely more were built and commissioned for service, but with the advent of the Excelsior Program, the Constitution Program no longer became viable. But I digress. The Constellation was likely so badly damaged that it would have taken Starfleet ages to refit the vessel and bring it back into good working order. But, I could be horribly wrong; anything's possible.

 

I agree with Nighthawk and Nova Designs. With the massive interior structural damage to the Enterprise-D saucer, I'd say the thing was pretty well trashed. Landing the separated saucer section on a planet's surface must have been intended as a last-resort emergency measure, with the foregone conclusion that the ship would be a total loss. And remember, all large starships are assembled in orbit. Even if the saucer could have been repaired, how would they get the gargantuan craft back into space in one piece? More likely it was sold for scrap -- probably to the Japanese.

 

guy aout the maiden voyage of the e, think they made the right choice in cutting to the chase. the movie would have stopped in its tracks to say "heres the new ship! ta-da!!!"

they had to do that in tmp, first to explain why the ship looks so much different, and to set ou the plot thread of kirk vs. decker. i should point out that to many non-trekkers, the spacedock sequence of tmp is excruciating.

 

The Constellation would have probably been refitted with new Warp Nacelles, and a New Bridge. As for the exterior hull shots, there were only a few rips and tears. Most of it was burn marks. So it is well likely that it could have been salvaged. One thing that Nighthawk said was that they may have abandoned the Constitution Refit after the Excelsior Class was built. That may not be true. There are cases in history that when another class ship is built, they do continue with the older kind with minor updates. And the Excelsior may have been a different type ship altogether having certain characteristics that the Constitution class may not have had, and visa-versa. So I think they kept making the Constitution classes well after the Excelsior. At least in my opinion. LOL :jest:
The “D” was a total loss for sure. Just the structure taking the impact would have been too much to even try to salvage. So they probably Scrapped it and removed systems that may have been able to be used as back ups for other Galaxy Class ships

 

The Constellation could've been repaired; replace the nacelles and bridge and patch up the other damage and it could go out again.

I think Guy was asking a question along the lines of "What if the saucer never crashed and stayed in orbit, would it have gotten another stardrive section?" It's possible, though that would seem kind of odd.

With the "E," when we first saw it in First Contact, it had been out in space for a year already. Plus, if it had started out on Earth at the beginning of the movie, it's very difficult to see starfleet sending it away with a Borg cube headed for the planet, so the idea of a spacedock sequence with the E just wasn't feasible within the constraints of the story.

 

Starship nacelles were probably plug-and-play, so I expect the Constellation could have been rebuilt. It's been done before - look up the carrier USS Franklin in WWII.

As for the D's saucer - I doubt even Starfleet has anything powerful enough to lift anything that huge and massively heavy, intact, back into orbit.

 

Tractor beam. Remember the sequence from Jouret IV in "Best of Both Worlds, pt 1." This just came back to me, but that crater was said to be scooped out by a tractor beam if I remember correctly. A couple of starships (Excelsior-class or better, probably three ships for maximum beam strength) could have easily lifted it from Veridian Three. Also remember sequences from that episode and part 2 when the cube is attacking the Enterprise and locks its tractor beam on the saucer prior to engaging the cutting beam. The beam width was enough to cover most of the saucer section.

 

Yeah but that was the Borg, who's technology is far superior to the Federations. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but its unlikely. There's also the range to consider. Standard orbit is something like 250 miles up.

 

Couldn't they just...beam it up?

 

Starship nacelles were probably plug-and-play, so I expect the Constellation could have been rebuilt. It's been done before - look up the carrier USS Franklin in WWII.

As for the D's saucer - I doubt even Starfleet has anything powerful enough to lift anything that huge and massively heavy, intact, back into orbit.

I hope to God Microsoft didn't make the nacelles!
My all time favorite episode! The Constellation could have been saved, but never would have died so well.

 

Let's take a look at the Constellation:

Aside from the crispy-critter warp nacelles, the ship really doesn't look to be in particularly bad shape, especially when you consider that the design is pretty modular in arrangement. New bridge, nacelles, pylons, some systems repairs and upgrades, and about six months worth of spacedock time patching up the obvious structural damage, and she'd be back in service.

The E-D saucer section, on the other hand, is large enough that it could probably comfortably contain the Constellation, and has already been determined by her designers that, under standard Earth gravity, she would sag under her own weight if not for some serious reinforcement by the structural integrity fields.

Take that baby and bellyflop it onto the surface of a Class M planet, while skipping more than a few steps listed in the tech manual, mix in the detail that the aforementioned SIF is gonna go out at some point, and you get one very large unsalvageable structure. Even if it survived the crash landing (emphaiss on "crash"), it likely wouldn't stand the strain of being lifted up by tractor beam.

And if you had a transporter large enough to beam up the saucer section of a Galaxy class starship, well, you wouldn't need a Galaxy class starship in the first place, now would you?

 

Yeah but that was the Borg, who's technology is far superior to the Federations. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but its unlikely. There's also the range to consider. Standard orbit is something like 250 miles up.

There is a TNG novel called Rogue Saucer. It deals with the supposed test of a prototype saucer that could land on the surface of a planet and then, with thrusters, hover into the atmosphere where it could be retrieved by the tractor beam of a Galaxy class hull section. While admittedly, it's only a novel and not true to Trek, the power rating of the tractor beam was never really established. It could be possible if the hull section entered the high atmosphere.

This has got me thinking now. Has anyone done a diorama of the D saucer crashed on Veridian III? I wonder if I have a spare saucer lying around...

Rob

 

In WWII, the carrier Benjamin Franklin was very heavily damaged, but managed to limp back to port. The Navy never really repaired her afterwards, but kept the ship around until the late fifties because it was almost new, and COULD be repaired if needed. A starship probably costs a lot more than a carrier, and would probably be worth the towing bill.
Andrew

 

. A starship probably costs a lot more than a carrier, and would probably be worth the towing bill.
I thought they didn't use currency in the 23rd century.

 

There is a TNG novel called Rogue Saucer. It deals with the supposed test of a prototype saucer that could land on the surface of a planet and then, with thrusters, hover into the atmosphere where it could be retrieved by the tractor beam of a Galaxy class hull section. While admittedly, it's only a novel and not true to Trek, the power rating of the tractor beam was never really established. It could be possible if the hull section entered the high atmosphere.
Rob

Interesting, I didn't know about that book. I guess it just goes to show that in the Star Trek universe anything is possible.

 

. A starship probably costs a lot more than a carrier, and would probably be worth the towing bill.
I thought they didn't use currency in the 23rd century.

Although they don't use CURRENCY (i.e. paper cash and coins) in the Trek universe, and contrary to Capt. Picard's line in FC ("Money doesn't exist in the 24th century"), they must still be using money in some form (even today, most financial transactions are conducted electronically). How can a civilization, let alone an interstellar federation, function economically without a medium of exchange? Have they reverted to barter?

I've gotten into this subject before on other Trek forums, and it always ends up going way OT and into debates on capitalism vs. socialism and stuff. So I'd better stop here.

 

My understanding is that there is a monetary system in place in the Star Trek time, which it is based on "credits". The difference, I believe, is that the "credits", as described, are not based on printed or coined currency, or "pocket change". Rather, they would use a debit system where wage and salary earners would have their earnings credited to an electronic account and would have amounts withdrawn during a purchase by being identified by a unique personal attribute or possibly some sort of imbedded chip.

We are getting closer and closer to this system in our current monetary exchange system with debit cards used in place of cash for transactions.

Of course, what this system is based on for value, is anybody's guess. Some sort of precious mineral (like gold is now)? Dilithium, perhaps?

 

My understanding is that there is a monetary system in place in the Star Trek time, which it is based on "credits". The difference, I believe, is that the "credits", as described, are not based on printed or coined currency, or "pocket change". Rather, they would use a debit system where wage and salary earners would have their earnings credited to an electronic account and would have amounts withdrawn during a purchase by being identified by a unique personal attribute or possibly some sort of imbedded chip.

Of course, what this system is based on for value, is anybody's guess. Some sort of precious mineral (like gold is now)? Dilithium, perhaps?

The main source of currency seems to be used by the Ferengi in the TNG/DS9 universe is gold pressed latinum. It's a pearlescent liquid surrounded by a "worthless" lump of gold.

I remeber them talking about Federation credits somewhere in an episode. No idea exactly what they do though. Some sort of promissary note type thing?

Rob

 

thats one of the sketchiest aeas in all of trek, and i wish that someone would define the canon on it

 

Well remember in Star Trek 4 where Kirk was said to ..."I suppose they don't use money in the 23rd century. Kirk replies "We don't". That just got me wondering...

 

In WWII, the carrier Benjamin Franklin was very heavily damaged, but managed to limp back to port. The Navy never really repaired her afterwards, but kept the ship around until the late fifties because it was almost new, and COULD be repaired if needed.

I was under the impression she was sent back into action, but that's wrong according to this:
http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/us_fleet.htm#cv13
But she WAS completely repaired and available for duty.

 

Well remember in Star Trek 4 where Kirk was said to ..."I suppose they don't use money in the 23rd century. Kirk replies "We don't". That just got me wondering...

In the TOS episode "Mudd's women", Kirk offered to trade valuables for goods/services to get the ship repaired.

 

U.S.S. FRANKLIN CV - 13

Did not resume flight operations following repairs, decommissioned to reserve 17 Feb 1947. Was in excellent condition and held in reserve for potential "ultimate" Essex class conversion.

Redesignated as an attack carrier (CVA 13) 1 October 1952, as an ASW carrier (CVS 13) 8 Aug 1953, and as an aviation transport (AVT 8) 5/59, all while in reserve. Stricken for disposal 1 October 1964, sold for scrapping 7/1966, scrapped at Norfolk VA 1966-1968.

They fixed her, and she sat in reserve.
They re-fit her three times, and she sat in reserve.
Then, she was scrapped!
That's messed up!
All that time, effort, supplies, and money, wasted!
Why didn't the Navy use her?
Put her to sea at least once!
Training vessel, anybody?