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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
Back from a bit of a break on this thing, started a new job and got a bunch of home chores done between the last post and today. But, progress continues, sort of...
I added a bunch of tiny styrene detail to the main deck bow section, and also started in on the correction for the main deck just underneath the two foremost main turrets. It just wasn't right, and is seen literally nowhere else that I know of in the Yamato-verse, except on this old beast of a model. So, out with the sheet styrene, super-glue and cement, to reshape the deck.



Bow detail added here:









 

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Discussion Starter #42 (Edited)
THERE we go! Looking a lot more like it now! After the Wave is cured and sanding is done this mod should be one of best things I have done to upgrade the look of this Yamato kit. I almost forgot, I built new bases for all three of the main turrets that re-located the swivel point about three mm forward, resulting in all the turrets being slightly pushed back toward the center of the ship. Another subtle change, but it makes a big difference in the overall appearance.



 

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it's all about the bass...I mean proportion. :)

One suggestion. the deck under the #1 turret should be flat, only curving at the very back edge of the turret to blend and meet the deck at the #2 turret. The base of both forward turrets should be visible. In many drawings the back of turret #1 lines up with the middle of the observation bulge. about 50% of the time the back of #1 is a little 'shaved' to help clear the curve of the deck transition.

Will you be rounding the edges of the turrets slightly?
 

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Discussion Starter #44
it's all about the bass...I mean proportion. :)

One suggestion. the deck under the #1 turret should be flat, only curving at the very back edge of the turret to blend and meet the deck at the #2 turret. The base of both forward turrets should be visible. In many drawings the back of turret #1 lines up with the middle of the observation bulge. about 50% of the time the back of #1 is a little 'shaved' to help clear the curve of the deck transition.

Will you be rounding the edges of the turrets slightly?
Steve H yes I'm gonna hit the underside rear edges with the old sanding stick; I did build the new decking with enough clearance for the turrets to spin freely but it's a pretty close shave, so I'll get to those next. Again, right about the upward curve of the deck under turret one, but I kinda liked this version that I saw somewhere, it reminds me of the original (sea-going) ship's deck line ... plus, it's on there now, so the next step will be to fill that sharp step with some Wave putty to blend the curve; I think it will look okay. Again, this build is just a laboratory for me, so to speak, to see how much my meager talents will allow me to get away with before I tackle the larger, newer kits. There'll be some mods to those, too!
 

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"meager" talents he sez. :)

So you're gonna go in on that 'weekly magazine' Yamato kit in 1/350? It seems a beauty to me. Looking at the various parts that have appeared I really get the feeling this is...how to say this...it's a kit designed around the existing 1/350 'gimmick' Yamato from some years back. Like they took the master, the core elements and frame and grafted the new, larger Yamato 2202 styling over it. The gimmicks are the same and in some cases improved. The existing 1/350 Yamato, the bow missiles are manual to reveal, and the rocket anchor chains are cranked by hand. Both of these functions are electric and remote operated on the new kit.

I would really love to tackle the new giant kit. I'd still putty over all the ballast vents and other overdone detailing but I would have to be careful of all the hull lights...
 

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Discussion Starter #46
"meager" talents he sez. :)

So you're gonna go in on that 'weekly magazine' Yamato kit in 1/350? It seems a beauty to me. Looking at the various parts that have appeared I really get the feeling this is...how to say this...it's a kit designed around the existing 1/350 'gimmick' Yamato from some years back. Like they took the master, the core elements and frame and grafted the new, larger Yamato 2202 styling over it. The gimmicks are the same and in some cases improved. The existing 1/350 Yamato, the bow missiles are manual to reveal, and the rocket anchor chains are cranked by hand. Both of these functions are electric and remote operated on the new kit.

I would really love to tackle the new giant kit. I'd still putty over all the ballast vents and other overdone detailing but I would have to be careful of all the hull lights...
No, not going in on a 1/350... they're much too expensive, complicated, and I've already got two of the newer 1/500 kits to contend with, so I think that's enough Yamato for me... I do like the hull lights though, something I always thought Yamato was kinda lacking in. Maybe on one of my 1/500 kits I'll do a custom lighting job to sort of emulate that.

Well, finally another coat of primer to check my progress on all the plastic-cutting and putty-troweling on this thing. Surprisingly, not too many areas that need re-work, so more of a success than I had anticipated. I raised the base on main turret 2 so as to bring it up to the proper height, it was too low to the deck. The small detail that I glued all over the ship really turned out nice to my eye, it's subtle, an doesn't overpower the ship's main curves and lines, like the over-done detail on the new kits.





 

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That's looking quite Yamato-ish indeed sir!

Please don't be too angry but I still don't like that searchlight on the mast/antenna. It's just...jarring. It sticks out. I'm just fussy I guess.

I do suggest another pass on the main turrets. they look too...slabby. crude. I think building up the top to be a sight ramp and bevel the edges would do wonders. You did a great job adding those round thingies on the back of the turrets.

Boy you sure did a sweet job on the bow. Proportions all nice, lines and angles and curves just right. It doesn't look like a bent nose submarine! :)
 

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Discussion Starter #48
That's looking quite Yamato-ish indeed sir!

Please don't be too angry but I still don't like that searchlight on the mast/antenna. It's just...jarring. It sticks out. I'm just fussy I guess.

I do suggest another pass on the main turrets. they look too...slabby. crude. I think building up the top to be a sight ramp and bevel the edges would do wonders. You did a great job adding those round thingies on the back of the turrets.

Boy you sure did a sweet job on the bow. Proportions all nice, lines and angles and curves just right. It doesn't look like a bent nose submarine! :)

Thanks buddy! And, you're a mind-reader, I'm not quite finished attacking those main turrets yet, they are indeed way too slabby and crude, so sit tight and bear with me on those...


As far as getting angry at you for having an opinion... well, there's only one builder around here I see that gets that way at his readers, and it certainly isn't me. I know you don't like the antenna searchlight platform, but neither one of us is belittling the other for it. It's okay! Life marches on...
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
Happy Independence Day everyone!

Vacation time means MODEL BUILDING TIME!! So today I was up bright and early and got through a major roadblock on this build, which was how to re-shape the main turrets. I eventually went with Steve H.'s suggestion of beveling all the edges, and then I went a couple steps further by adding the Tic-Tac looking white pieces on top (got rid of the tiny machine guns they kept breaking off during handling anyway) and re-made the range finders on either side of the turrets (no easy task!). I'll probably add a few tiny panels and what not before priming but they are essentially done. I also brought the fore-deck up to level with the rest of the ship so there are no more odd-looking steps where there shouldn't be. And managed to scribe the new partition lines along the length of the main engine nozzle (ALSO no easy task!). Progress!









Aforementioned fore-decking added in front of main turret 1:

 

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Discussion Starter #51
The three main stabilizers mounted around the engine nozzle are getting a pretty major re-shape, too. The original parts were far too...curvy, for the way I want this Yamato to look, so, I initially tried to sand and file them into a more angular version, which can be seen on the piece without putty on it below. Still too stick-figure looking. Out came the sheet styrene and Wave putty...



Here are the other two pieces with the Wave applied. I made sure to rough up both sides of each stabilizer with a sanding stick first to provide a good purchase for the putty:

 

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Discussion Starter #52
Finally managed to knock out the engine nozzle/stabilizer assembly, phew. I think I still want to add a bit more detail to the inner nozzle, so not done yet, but some strip styrene detail, scribing of panel lines on the re-shaped stabilizers, and a lot more patience than I thought I had... produces a halfway decent looking part:



 

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Hmmmmm. The fins seem unbalanced now. Maybe re-sculpting the pods on the ends will help. bring out the point past the back edge, resculpt the bulge to align with the center of the fin. There should be SOME taper in the fin out to the end. Right now they seem too...slabby. Remember the design is about proportions and curves, lines and angles.

Love the work on the turrets and bow deck. I think you nailed the aesthetic. :)
 

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Agreed, a megaton of wasted space with the hangar rotisserie, don't know what the reasoning was behind that design "inspiration," maybe too much sake... Of course, the entire aft section of the hull would be needed to house all those fighters and support equipment, leaving little space for even the engine room!
Several reasons for it:

1. The original 1970's design with the planes flying out of the hatch was asinine. The hangar was a big open void with the planes on "shelves" on the side of the hangar bay. Recovering them after battle would be even worse. If you ever played the classic game Homeworld and needed to recover a ton of fighters for refueling in the heat of battle would know what I mean. It would take a long time for them to recover aircraft.

2. A catapult system is a much better idea, but I don't ever recall seeing them recover fighter aircraft in 2199, aside from the "special" aircraft. The Gamilons on the other hand, had their act together.

3. Because it looks cool.

The show was caught with no good solution, so they came up with the best they could, I guess.

Very impressive custom work on the model. I need to get cracking on my 1/350, but I am leery of painting it at the moment, as I usually botch that pretty badly.
 

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Several reasons for it:

1. The original 1970's design with the planes flying out of the hatch was asinine. The hangar was a big open void with the planes on "shelves" on the side of the hangar bay. Recovering them after battle would be even worse. If you ever played the classic game Homeworld and needed to recover a ton of fighters for refueling in the heat of battle would know what I mean. It would take a long time for them to recover aircraft.

2. A catapult system is a much better idea, but I don't ever recall seeing them recover fighter aircraft in 2199, aside from the "special" aircraft. The Gamilons on the other hand, had their act together.

3. Because it looks cool.

The show was caught with no good solution, so they came up with the best they could, I guess.

Very impressive custom work on the model. I need to get cracking on my 1/350, but I am leery of painting it at the moment, as I usually botch that pretty badly.
FWIW the original concept for the Yamato's fighter bay was even more slow. A trapeze arrangement for launch and recovery ala the proposed B-36's 'Goblin' parasite fighter, a system seen a couple of times in the original series used for the Type 100 scouts, and as you state, in full careful exacting detail in Yamato 2199 for the Type 100 and Cosmo Seagull.

I have looked as carefully as any person could, investigated the limited printed material produced and I see zero material generated on how the fighters were recovered in 2199. Nor how they were to be rearmed. No 'purples' or 'reds' (fueling or weapon loading specialists), no missile carts.

Given the obsessive level of detail in the production it's surprising to see this lack, even if it was only a rough sketch. It should be there but it isn't. Mind that's one big flaw in the production of 2199/2202. No documentation of the evolution of production. No rough drafts, no false starts, no deleted options. Original Yamato is rich in such things.
 

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Well, the best visualization of how it all works is here. Someone with too much time on their hands did a 3DCG representation of the whole fighter launch system. I do not now how many liberties the creator made, but it all seems reasonable:

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27614851

Someone did a lot of thinking on how this all works. From the Japanese-language sources I checked, the system is an overly complex round belt that runs along the ship's hull, surrounding the main engine. The designers of this system apparently did not take into account how easily such a thing could break under normal use, let alone under battle, but it looks cool on the screen. The Bandai kit add-on for the 1/500 scale does not recreate this very well.
 

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Well, the best visualization of how it all works is here. Someone with too much time on their hands did a 3DCG representation of the whole fighter launch system. I do not now how many liberties the creator made, but it all seems reasonable:

https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm27614851

Someone did a lot of thinking on how this all works. From the Japanese-language sources I checked, the system is an overly complex round belt that runs along the ship's hull, surrounding the main engine. The designers of this system apparently did not take into account how easily such a thing could break under normal use, let alone under battle, but it looks cool on the screen. The Bandai kit add-on for the 1/500 scale does not recreate this very well.
As far as I can tell from memory, that's a straight-up recreation of the launch mechanics from Yamato 2199. The only quibble I think there is, I don't think there was any pop-up supports for the fighters so they could retract their landing gear and settle on the launching shuttle. I think it was just the shuttle slides into place, pushes up, locks on and the gear retracts.

Still, this is a mechanical nightmare. As you say it looks cool and on first blush it looks very reasonable but man...

And, still, nothing on how the fighters are recovered. I mean, just imagine how much time it would take to jockey a fighter into position over the launching shuttle, get a lock, then slide up to a platform. I *suppose* it would be possible to fly straight in (like the original series) and land on an empty platform (then locked and rotated clear) and THAT might account for the fighters resting on the platform with their landing gear down (instead of being launch ready on a cradle awaiting the launching shuttle) but there's no arresting gear, tractor beams aren't a thing in Yamato... OTOH the variable nozzles on the fighters do allow for reversing thrust, soooo...

I just don't know. :)
 

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I spent a couple hours last night scouring the Japanese sites seeing what (if any) comments were being made about the hangar bay in the old vs. new Yamato.

Some chatter about the storage and launching, but nothing on recovery. However, the video above gives us a clue:

There is a deck where the aircraft sit and are supposedly serviced - they show them being pushed onto the rotary mechanism. If so, then the fighters are recovered from the sides of the ship, near where the Cosmo Zero comes out. This gives direct access to this deck. Planes can be serviced/refueled/reloaded and placed back onto the launch mechanism.

As for the older hangar bay, there's a bunch of trolling going on about it being a "4 dimensional pocket" as the older Yamato design can house up to around 40 aircraft - quite a sizable number.

There were several explanations for this: The older WWII ship had a much larger crew - about 10x the Yamato's complement. No need for massive fuel oil storage tanks or an armory for the main guns. They discuss the lack of the need for these items free up a lot of internal space in the ship...

But the best one was the "4D pocket" remark. As the Yamato came from the 22nd century, so too did another popular Japanese character: Doraemon. Doraemon sported a kangaroo-type pouch from which he can produce literally anything he wants - think of Felix's magic bag. They propose that Sanada took the technology used for Doraemon's magic pocket and used it to generate a Tardis-type space field to allow for a large number of aircraft to be stored inside the ship.

So there you go, it all makes perfect sense now... Except for Doraemon's "Doko-demo Dooa" (Go anywhere door). If that was the case, they'd just open it and Iscandar would have been on the other side.

Perhaps I should spend less time there - as they are way too silly for a serious discussion about the ship design.
 

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1000 bonus points for the Doraemon references. :)

It gets worse for classic Yamato. The upper hanger looks to hold 40 fighters (two rows of twelve on the 'outside' with 2 rows of 8 'inside'. The lower hanger is 24 with the possibility of it being 48 if the stacks are doubled. The 'offside' fighters would be slid to the main launch way once the 'ready' fighters were off.

It looks good and workable until you actually take the given stats for the fighters and measure it out. To fit the 'base' numbers of fighters (24 up top 24 below) into the Yamato the fighter bay has to extend to the second main gun turret. Just a little off and not reasonable. :)

This is one of the reasons why the 2199 Yamato was enlarged to 333 meters from the original 265.8 meters
 

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Well the IJN Akagi carried 66 planes + 25 reserves. It was also roughly the same size as the IJN Yamato (Yamato was a few meters wider) and it was especially designed to carry aircraft. Some of the online blueprints of the 70's Yamato show remarkably few aircraft (only 5 in a cutaway view) and the couple scenes I recall showing the inside of the quite spacious landing bay show a lot more than that.

One more item I did not mention about the hangar bay was how the planes got off the "shelves". Two methods were discussed: a crane in the center that grabbed each and lowered it to the deck, or the shelves were "pallets" that lowered the plane down the side when there were no more planes beneath it.

Anyhow, enough of this, I'm curious as to what you will do next with this build. I had no idea the original design of this model was so lacking in detail.
 
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