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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Don't laugh.

I just did some testing with a zapped vintage MT with a Mean Green and a new from the package XT with stock magnets and the XT ran off and left the MT in the dust. I checked the resistance pole to pole of both arms and they're similar. So my question, however stupid it may sound, is...are there mean greens in them thar XT's?

Torque wise the XT was faster out of the corners with stock magnets and arms compaired to the Mean Green/Zapped, and seemed to be just as fast with the curvy track appeared. Am I just kidding myself or did JL slip in a litttle extra here.
 

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Model Murdering
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I'm laughin' with you Pete. I've been pretty disappointed with the after market mean greens (green tip/gold wire). Same deal as you. My buddy brought over a pile of new XT's for tuning and after some fiddlin' most of them flat ran away and hid from a couple mean green cars.

I had six of those arms brand spankin' new. One was satisfactory, another was just OK, and the rest were tossed in the core pile after burnin my finger.

In trying to recoup my losses, I've tried them in every combination of chassis, magnets, comm brushes, and gearing setup I could dream up except super ll, which I dont own. They seemed to pipe up OK on the free test, but I found them to be lackluster on the track, twitchy and sluggish out of the turns with 3 different controller ratings. In general I found them to be fairly one dimensional, not overly tractable, and dare I say over rated.

Granted I'm not runnin' a Galinko power supply. I do have power taps at six foot intervals on a fairly short track. All my other modifieds and high zoop cars run fine. I didnt try pick up shunts but thought about it briefly before I walked away disgruntled. Shouldnt have to be shunted!

I dont claim to be the "Joe Buck" builder of pancake cars, but I was sorely disappointed. They're certainly not my first choice.

I'm hopin' that somebody in the know will step up and really answer your question. I'd like to know also.

Bill
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I'm going to build up a give-a-way XT for a winner of a series coming up, and I was going to put a mean green in. As it stands now I think polymers and a balanced stocker is going to be the hot setup. I ran a brand new XT with an Eagle body, BSRT ploymers, hi-pro brushes and gold plated shoes and was running just a hundreth or so below Martin's track record. The last batch of mean greens I got from Texas were the same, disappointing at best, junk as a norm. I don't feel ripped off, I just feel let down.
 

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I've been pretty lucky with my American Line mean greens. I use the blue yellow super II magents along with silver brushes and they realy run fast. I guess it's hit of miss with those guys, huh?
 

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Model Murdering
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Hey VJ, I agree! I've settled on the green/green myself. It's been a good conversion. Like you said, they run fast. I'll add smooth and responsive too.

I've probably used about 15 of them as of late. Other than 1 with a comm plate that obviously wasn't flat. (eyeballing) Two or three had comm plates off center. The remaining bakers dozen were good with five or six screamers to boot. So far the best bang for the buck.

The old shoebox full of AFX junk on fleabay yields some good first and second generation arms. Often the chassis' were cast aside for some minor tuning infraction/misdiagnosis or a young mans discovery of the pretty lil' thing next door.

I'm a bit of a gunslinger at heart, and will roll the dice on occasion. Lately though, one mans trash is gonna cost ya. Even the trash lots have gone out the roof.
 

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The mean green question has been around for a while, What are they good for?
Well as I see it they go like this:
Green/gold-High end stuff, these really like to spin. Magnets like to be M/T X/T J.L. Poly.Good for big ovalsTry using 19 tooth crowns with these
Green /green- Better suited for road racing than the above, but still REAL poppy.Same mags work well.
Green/red-Just a little less than above, they do like AFX non mag magnets.I prefer them for non mag chassis.
Three lam green/gold(JLs) Pretty much the best stock arm out there for road racing They are drivable and have the BEST stock comm ever. For road racing they can't be beat.
I use Wiz brushes and REALLY watch the brush tensoin with all of these arms, they can get warm on you if you don't pay attention.

Tim Leppert
smalltime armatures
 

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Ive noticed that with the green tip/gold wire arms they have a tendency to lack low end torque. Ive got several that whether in an afx or mt chassis they barely want to move until you give it at least 75% of the throttle. Then it quickly either spins out or deslots in the turns. I usually use the red tip m/t arms in place of these since theyre good all around, or a green/green since theyre a bit stronger. I have one specialty chassis with a red/red arm that is a hairy screamer.

I have one of those green tip/red wire armatures in my big bad blue #5 Javelin t/a (had it since I was a kid, and my favorite slot to this day) and it flat screams in a mt chassis with totally stock parts except for an upgrade to the satin chrome 5-spokes. Ive never seen another of these armatures, so they must be rare. Anyone know anything else on these?
 

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Here's my 2 cents. I think the magnets in the xtractions are much better than even zapped magnatraction magnets. What did the new xtraction arms ohm at? The JLTO and xtrac arms I have read about 14 ohms or so. The mean greens I have read 6-8 ohms these run much faster than the xtrac arms I have. I do think the JL/AW arms are designed better than the tjet/mt arms. I like using those in my outlaw cars. I'm about due for building a new unlimited magnatraction or xtraction. If I can make some time to finish my slotcar projects. Currently occupied with this project:
 

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Tim! After reading your post it dawned on me the slot arms are just like camshafts in 1:1 cars. Duh! One size does not fit all.............

Engineering is algebra, what you take away from one side of the equation affects the other side of the equal sign proportionally.

Thanks for waking me up from my nap!

BH
 

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I guess I agree to some extent,
I would liken it more to the difference between a big block, a small block and a V-6. They can all be formitable in a given car, say a USAC sprinter. You just need to know how to tune and drive them.
Brush settups and shoe adjustment are maybe even MORE imortant than an arm sometimes.
Take my Fray cars, I have four REALLY good cars that I go back to again and again. They all have very different pole readings.
Grey/gold, 19.1,19.5,20.5
Grey/red 17.3/17.6/18.9
grey/green 18.6,18.7,18.1
x-mas tree 20.2,20.8,21.2
I don't think that the arm readings are as impotant as the quality of construction, straight shaft, true laminations, even windings, flat comm.

Hope this helps
Tim Leppert
small time armatures
 

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That was really an eye opener for me Tim... This years fray was my first with the Pacific Northwest Team and I have only been playing with the T-Jets for about 6 months or so and so I am a total newbie. Everywhere I looked for info people always said you want an arm as close as 16 as you can, a difference no greater than .1 ohm between each pole, and stay away from those darned X-mas tree arms!

Then after it's all over I see specs of the cars from some of the top racers and their arms are all over the place, much like yours. This means I can actually go grab that box of X-mas tree and other arms I set aside because they didn't meet the "magic numbers" and try them out on a car.

afxgns said:
Take my Fray cars, I have four REALLY good cars that I go back to again and again. They all have very different pole readings.
Grey/gold, 19.1,19.5,20.5
Grey/red 17.3/17.6/18.9
grey/green 18.6,18.7,18.1
x-mas tree 20.2,20.8,21.2
I don't think that the arm readings are as impotant as the quality of construction, straight shaft, true laminations, even windings, flat comm.

Hope this helps
Tim Leppert
small time armatures
 

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martybauer31 said:
That was really an eye opener for me Tim... This years fray was my first with the Pacific Northwest Team and I have only been playing with the T-Jets for about 6 months or so and so I am a total newbie. Everywhere I looked for info people always said you want an arm as close as 16 as you can, a difference no greater than .1 ohm between each pole, and stay away from those darned X-mas tree arms!

Then after it's all over I see specs of the cars from some of the top racers and their arms are all over the place, much like yours. This means I can actually go grab that box of X-mas tree and other arms I set aside because they didn't meet the "magic numbers" and try them out on a car.

The thing with the Fray is the track conditions,
This year, the tracks HOOKED. Chatter marks in the corners and all. Most years, the tracks are slick, when this happens, the LAST thing you want is a really poppy arm, it only gets your tires dirty faster. You really want an arm that's easy to drive, smooth and more forgiving at low end. That's what I strive for with the arms I do for folks.

BTW The X-Mas tree arms are the Holy Grail of Fray racing, For every ten you have, maybe one will be good, but it's probably going to be REALLY GOOD. And try all of them in a car before you discard them!

Tim Leppert
small time armatures

P.S. The only numbers I look at are the ones that tell me if it's legal or not.
 

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This one line says it all (almost...)

afxgns said:
Tim Leppert
small time armatures
P.S. The only numbers I look at are the ones that tell me if it's legal or not.
With these things you NEVER know which one is a dog or a screamer by the ohm numbers alone... (Unless one pole is toasted or something...)
The only thing that will show how an arm runs is running it fully built on a track.
(But I am sure that a dyno would give an indication of how a chassis will run.)
Andan arm that is not a flyer in one chassis may just need to be put in another chassis/magnet combination to wake it up...
Stupid TJets... :lol:

But meanwhile back at the X-Traction armature section...
When I first bought a few XT I ran them at a friends track that had a long front straight and found out a few things.
  1. The original XTs were not as quick off the line as a M/T
  2. But a XT could catch a M/T at the end of a long straight
  3. A M/T with a mean green would smoke a XT
But now I see that the AWXT (whew) are a different animal from a JLXT.
I guess that is the sort of thing that makes this fun.... :lol:
Scott
 

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Bill Hall said:
Tim! After reading your post it dawned on me the slot arms are just like camshafts in 1:1 cars. Duh! One size does not fit all.............

Engineering is algebra, what you take away from one side of the equation affects the other side of the equal sign proportionally.

Thanks for waking me up from my nap!

BH
I always looked at it like this: arm selection is kinda like engine displacement, magnet strength is analogous to compression ratio, tuning pickup shoes is like optimizing intake and exhaust systems, and the brushes are like the camshaft. (But then I'm weird like that. I have this half-finished, Bob Hardin-esque diorama on my layout with two railroad scenery figures using a tiny scratchbuilt engine hoist to swap a motor and gearplate out of a Tjet... :rolleyes: and yes, if you look at the pictures, the idea is that they are swapping the 428 out of a junk T-bird into a Cougar or Mustang.)

mtyoder said:
Currently occupied with this project:
Hey mtyoder, my college roommate had a Gremlin painted black with Cragar S/S rims, a Chevy 327 and a 4-speed...

--rick
 

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ParkRNDL said:
I always looked at it like this: arm selection is kinda like engine displacement, magnet strength is analogous to compression ratio, tuning pickup shoes is like optimizing intake and exhaust systems, and the brushes are like the camshaft.

Rick, that's an awesome analogy...and REALLY helps me put things in perspective to Tjets :thumbsup:
 

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I do see a day, in the not to distant future, when the pancake racing world will need to move to these arms. I know the big races will need to do this. The originals are gone. You can't buy them anymore from REH. There are a few places that still have some, but they are not long for this world.
I want to thank the Autoworld folks for keeping this little sub-culture alive.

Tim Leppert
 

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TX Street Racer said:
Rick, that's an awesome analogy...and REALLY helps me put things in perspective to Tjets :thumbsup:
Really? Wow, cool, I'm glad someone likes it. I know if I ever tried to explain it to my wife (or to any non-slothead I know, actually) they'd think the smell of red oil and ozone had finally affected my brain... :D

--rick
 
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