[Bay7]

checking out forgotten trek, I came across this concept for the Excelsior - looks rather like the NX-01 to me

http://ottens.co.uk/forgottentrek/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Excelsior-study1.jpg

I personally do not care for the NX01 design but I can hate it less if it was derived from NX2000 design - bit poor that they had to raid the reject bin to find a design though.

IMO Enterprise seemed rushed and cobbled together. I'd sometimes wonder what other starfleet ships were up to whilst Picard, kirk and the others were having exciting adventures, Star Trek Enterprise was the answer!


steve:wave:

 

[Garbaron]

Judging from the text I say this picture is discussing the ST3 space dock. To make it appear larger they used beams of light. The ship you see is any ship not necessarily an early Excelsior.

 

[irishtrek]

No, the Excelsior was the NX-2000. That image in your link was probably a concept design for the Excelsior if not some other starship design from STIII.

 

[jbond]

Why do people make assumptions like "they had to raid the bin"--you have no evidence for, nor any insight into, what went on during the NX-01 design process, yet feel free to criticize the designer for adapting a design that he in fact didn't.
In fact, the "bin" that got raided was the Akira design, and Doug Drexler was specifically asked to incorporate elements of that design into the NX-01, and he did a heroic job under those circumstances.
That said, interesting seeing this piece of artwork!

 

[Warped9]

The NX-01 looks the way it did for a very simple reason: TPTB wanted something that was immediately familiar as opposed to something that would have been more original and distinctly more interesting.

The NX-01 design reflects a lot of what was wrong with ENT. It could have been a really interesting series if they'd had the balls to make it more distinct. Instead they copped out for the familiar, not only in ship design and tech but also in the rehashed stories.

If you ever get a chance check out Masao's Starfleet Museum website. There is stuff there that gives one a good idea of the kind of thing we could have gotten in ENT if they'd been truly creative.

 

[Prologic9]

Why do people make assumptions like "they had to raid the bin"--you have no evidence for, nor any insight into, what went on during the NX-01 design process, yet feel free to criticize the designer for adapting a design that he in fact didn't.
In fact, the "bin" that got raided was the Akira design, and Doug Drexler was specifically asked to incorporate elements of that design into the NX-01, and he did a heroic job under those circumstances.
That said, interesting seeing this piece of artwork!

Why did you make such a big point of 'assuming' when you freely acknowledge all the raiding the raiders raided?

It's not just the overall Akira design it took either, there are elements from half a dozen previous ships thrown around all over.

It's what I call "post Enterprise-E Trek Design." That's basically the point where Star Trek design stopped making new things, and just started recycling all the things that had come before it.

The E-E is a good example. Instead of creating a unique aesthetic, the designers talked about how they wanted long nacelles like ship ___, how the neck area was similar to ship ___, how they added the triangles from ship ____. etc. etc.

 

[kenlee]

Why do people make assumptions like "they had to raid the bin"--you have no evidence for, nor any insight into, what went on during the NX-01 design process, yet feel free to criticize the designer for adapting a design that he in fact didn't.
In fact, the "bin" that got raided was the Akira design, and Doug Drexler was specifically asked to incorporate elements of that design into the NX-01, and he did a heroic job under those circumstances.
That said, interesting seeing this piece of artwork!

A little over a year and a half ago Drexler posted a refit version of the NX-01 on his website, it was essentially the same but with the addition of a secondary hull. A great improvement and more in line with the evolution of the Enterprise. Too bad they didn't use it to begin with.

 

[John P]

The NX-01 looks the way it did for a very simple reason: TPTB wanted something that was immediately familiar as opposed to something that would have been more original and distinctly more interesting.

That's not what I read. Berman told the designers specifically to adapt the Akira because it was just a background ship in First Contact, and he figured nobody noticed it, and thus wouldn't notice how similar the NX was to it. Once again, showing how out of touch he was with fandom. I understand the designers tried to talk him out of it, to use one of the ideas they'd come up with, but he was pompous and adamant.

 

[seaQuest]

That's not what I read. Berman told the designers specifically to adapt the Akira because it was just a background ship in First Contact, and he figured nobody noticed it, and thus wouldn't notice how similar the NX was to it. Once again, showing how out of touch he was with fandom. I understand the designers tried to talk him out of it, to use one of the ideas they'd come up with, but he was pompous and adamant.

And yet, AND YET...
We hear nothing of Rick Berman since Enterprise ended.
Brannon Braga, yes.
Ira Steven Behr, yes.
Ronald D. Moore, he's done a thing or two.
Even Hans Beimler and Richard Manning.
Rick Berman, not so much.

 

[RSN]

My guess for the Akira being used for the Enterprise 01 was all due to the fact that the computer model already existed for a ship that was not featured much on screen and could be modified into the new ship for "Enterprise". Hollywood will always take as many shortcuts to save money as it can. "The Flintstones" used some of the same CG dinos as "Jurasic Park". Fred's Brontosaurus in the quarry was the Brachiosaurus from JP, with a few tweeks. :thumbsup:

 

[PerfesserCoffee]

I've always been a fan of the TAS Bonhomme Richard as an early starship design. I just wish the NX-01 had been a bit more in keeping with the timeline. The major failing of that series was not the starship design, however.

 

[irishtrek]

It's not just the overall Akira design it took either, there are elements from half a dozen previous ships thrown around all over.

It's what I call "post Enterprise-E Trek Design." That's basically the point where Star Trek design stopped making new things, and just started recycling all the things that had come before it.

The E-E is a good example. Instead of creating a unique aesthetic, the designers talked about how they wanted long nacelles like ship ___, how the neck area was similar to ship ___, how they added the triangles from ship ____. etc. etc.

There is another way to look at it, the design of the E-E with elements from other starships was a tip 'o the hat to those ladys.

 

[charonjr]

The above mentioned image is an early draft of the USS Grissom for Star Trek 3. How it got labeled as Excelsior is anybody's guess. Excelsior's design lineage is quite distinct, as is Grissom's.

 

[Captain April]

I've always been a fan of the TAS Bonhomme Richard as an early starship design. I just wish the NX-01 had been a bit more in keeping with the timeline. The major failing of that series was not the starship design, however.

I suspect you're thinking of the Bonaventure.

 

[PerfesserCoffee]

I suspect you're thinking of the Bonaventure.

You're right! :wave:

At least I got the "Bon" part right!

 

[Richard Baker]

My guess for the Akira being used for the Enterprise 01 was all due to the fact that the computer model already existed for a ship that was not featured much on screen and could be modified into the new ship for "Enterprise". Hollywood will always take as many shortcuts to save money as it can. "The Flintstones" used some of the same CG dinos as "Jurasic Park". Fred's Brontosaurus in the quarry was the Brachiosaurus from JP, with a few tweeks. :thumbsup:

There is an over all design match between the Akira and NX, but one was not modified into the other. There are nothing in common- not windows, engines, hull, hatches... Yes they look a lot alike, that was intentional, but with no CGI geometry in common- even with distortions.
I like the NX design because I also like the Akira design, I just wish they had chosen a different ship for Enterprise. The details and hull colors look older, but the ship still looks too modern. Trouble I think a Daedalus-class ship, which it should have been, just does not look dynamic enough to swoop around the screen.

That ship shown in space dock is actually being built as a model by someone based on taht image. He extrapolated the hull shapes and was 2/3s done last time I saw it- I forget which forum it was on though.

 

[John P]

You're right! :wave:

At least I got the "Bon" part right!

That's good!



(get it? )

 

[Captain April]

The USS Bon Bon, sister ship to the USS Lollipop.

She's a good ship.

 

[irishtrek]

The USS Bon Bon, sister ship to the USS Lollipop.

She's a good ship.

Uh??? Me thinks you might uv got it just a wee bit wrong because the USS Lollipop was a Next Generation episode from the first season.:tongue:

 

[PerfesserCoffee]

Uh??? Me thinks you might uv got it just a wee bit wrong because the USS Lollipop was a Next Generation episode from the first season.:tongue:

Where's starelork when you need him?:tongue: