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Discussion Starter #1
I race on a flat concrete oval track and have tried both motors and the Monster Stock seems to respond very to gear change. The Binary stock on the other hand is a hard motor to figure out I've tried gearing down two to three tooth smaller than I do with the monster stock. But it still doesn't have that over all speed that I'm looking for. The track that I race on has 307ft drive line. I have tried 120, 110, and 100 spur gear. Just looking for other opinon to help figure out the binary stock motor.
 

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Its seems everytime Trinity releases a new stocker we see increasing RPM which makes it harder to hit sweet spot in the gearing.

I do not have any Binary Motors but I know with the new Epic Roar Stock motor which has a bit more rpm than the Monster, I pretty much have to be within about .03-.05 of the perfect roll out for the motor. So for example say the perfect rollout is 2.50. If I am one full tooth up at a 2.57 the motor gets hot and falls off around the 3:00 mark. One tooth to low at say a 2.43 and the motor stays to cool with no up front times. I need to be around 2.48-2.52 for it to run good. It's a shame you have to be that close but that is what I am seeing on the track. If you have a temp gun, see how hot the motor is coming off the track. Typically my fastest runs at any track the motors have all come off around 80-95 degrees. If the motor is hotter than that either the car is not efficient or your gearing is off either too high or too low.

Have someone listen to your car, if they can hear the motor winding out to fast then go up in gear, if the motor never seems to wind up by the end of the straight then down down in gear.

I know most guys that run a Binary are usually 3-4 teeth lower than a typical Monster.
The new Epic motor I am usually the same gearing as a high RPM monster motor. Or a full tooth lower than a medium RPM Monster.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Sure Shot said:
did you try the same gear as a monster?
If I gear my monster with 110/38 then I would gear my Binary with 110/36 because of the longer run-up time and higher RPM that it shows on the Dyno.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
erock1331 said:
Its seems everytime Trinity releases a new stocker we see increasing RPM which makes it harder to hit sweet spot in the gearing.

I do not have any Binary Motors but I know with the new Epic Roar Stock motor which has a bit more rpm than the Monster, I pretty much have to be within about .03-.05 of the perfect roll out for the motor. So for example say the perfect rollout is 2.50. If I am one full tooth up at a 2.57 the motor gets hot and falls off around the 3:00 mark. One tooth to low at say a 2.43 and the motor stays to cool with no up front times. I need to be around 2.48-2.52 for it to run good. It's a shame you have to be that close but that is what I am seeing on the track. If you have a temp gun, see how hot the motor is coming off the track. Typically my fastest runs at any track the motors have all come off around 80-95 degrees. If the motor is hotter than that either the car is not efficient or your gearing is off either too high or too low.

Have someone listen to your car, if they can hear the motor winding out to fast then go up in gear, if the motor never seems to wind up by the end of the straight then down down in gear.

I know most guys that run a Binary are usually 3-4 teeth lower than a typical Monster.
The new Epic motor I am usually the same gearing as a high RPM monster motor. Or a full tooth lower than a medium RPM Monster.
I tried the same thing and the car fell off at the end of the run.
 

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By falling off, how many tenths are you talking from the beginning of the run?
I don't count the first lap so say your 2nd through 7th laps are 5.5's I wouldn't want to be in the 6.0's at the end of the run.
I don't like to see over a 4 tenths drop off, if you are then usually something is wrong.
Every track I have been to my fastest run has been with a 0.3 to 0.4 drop off.
My guess would be either the car is not efficient in the turns (i.e. scrubbing speed) enough to hold the gearing, or maybe you are still up about a half tooth to full tooth too high.

How much time are you coming off with a typical deadshorted pack at 35 amps?
You should be around 120-130 seconds.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
erock1331 said:
By falling off, how many tenths are you talking from the beginning of the run?
I don't count the first lap so say your 2nd through 7th laps are 5.5's I wouldn't want to be in the 6.0's at the end of the run.
I don't like to see over a 4 tenths drop off, if you are then usually something is wrong.
Every track I have been to my fastest run has been with a 0.3 to 0.4 drop off.
My guess would be either the car is not efficient in the turns (i.e. scrubbing speed) enough to hold the gearing, or maybe you are still up about a half tooth to full tooth too high.

How much time are you coming off with a typical deadshorted pack at 35 amps?
You should be around 120-130 seconds.
My last race that I ran with the binary I was running 6.7 up front and dropped of 7.4 at the middle to 7.8 at the end. Granted I've only been racing for little over a year and still learn about getting the car to race as free as I can control it but I never had a car drop of that much. The Binary is still a small mystery to use at our track. But I will get it.
 

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Hmmm yeah to lose 7, 10th's is alot. keep playing around you will stumble onto it.
Is anyone else running em there with success?
If so maybe they can help you with the rollout.
 

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I ran one yesterday at Walts Summer Classic. Just gear it the same as a Monster Stock, dont worry if it gets hot. I just missed the track record in all 3 qualifiers, and in the last qualifier Pete D'Agnolo destroyed it by about a lap.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
erock1331 said:
Hmmm yeah to lose 7, 10th's is alot. keep playing around you will stumble onto it.
Is anyone else running em there with success?
If so maybe they can help you with the rollout.
No one else is using them but me so I'm the lone tester. I will make some more changes to the car and I may try gearing it like the monster stock and see what happens.
 

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Hey Rowdy, I,ve ran a binary at Branford several times now, after finding a gear and brush/sping combo that it likes its fast. I normaly run a 37x108 with a monster at Branford ( 310ft runline lil more banking than Echeconnee) with the Binary I,ve found 36x108 with 767 Reedy brushes red springs + & - works very well. This motor does seem to run hotter than a Monster but the performance doesent seem to suffer, so let it eat :lol:
You racing at Echeconnee? I,m hoping to get up there and race soon :thumbsup:
Later,Lee Helander :cool:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Fl Flash said:
Hey Rowdy, I,ve ran a binary at Branford several times now, after finding a gear and brush/sping combo that it likes its fast. I normaly run a 37x108 with a monster at Branford ( 310ft runline lil more banking than Echeconnee) with the Binary I,ve found 36x108 with 767 Reedy brushes red springs + & - works very well. This motor does seem to run hotter than a Monster but the performance doesent seem to suffer, so let it eat :lol:
You racing at Echeconnee? I,m hoping to get up there and race soon :thumbsup:
Later,Lee Helander :cool:
Ya Echeconnee is where I race at thanks for the input and I will try it out.
 

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Can you guys help me understand this. We used to run the P2K. Had lots of torque. Laminations on the arm were 2 stacks close together. Then we had the GM3. Tri-rotor design with the stacks farther apart. Not as much torque, but more rpm. Then we got the Monster and the Epic Stock. Fewer laminations spaced farther apart. Still not as much torque, but more rpm. With the reading I've done, more rpm at the sacrifice of torque is NOT a better motor. All those motors develop their peak power at @ 16,000 rpm. So my understanding of it would be to choose the motor with the most torque at that rpm. rpmXtorque/5252=H.P.
I get the feeling that somehow the orient has brainwashed the stock racing world into thinking that rpm's is it and they keep turning out motors that give more of that at the expense of less torque. If I spin a motor faster with less torque, all I gain is heat from friction. It's torque that turns the wheel. But more rpm's sells more motors.
Am I looking at the wrong items, or am I correct to think the "Old School" motors are actually preffered?
 

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If torque was the answer everyone would be running MVP's and P2K's in their oval cars.
In my experiences these motors are 2 minute wonders, heat up and fall off.
A GM3 can usually hang with a Monster until about the 3:30 mark then they usually heat up and fall off to where the Monster does not.
Ask the guys who ran stock (MVP handout) at the nats this past weekend. From what I read they were about 1-2 laps off the pace normally held by a Monster motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
It seems to me that the older motors grant it had more torque but the current motor have a lot more rpm. It use to be a time if you had a torque base motor you could add a lot mor gear to them compare to a higher rpm motor that you had to play with gearing a little bit more. The Binary motor is more of a RPM motor compare to the Monster stock. For example put both motor out of pack on to a dyno and more than likely you would get a binary that well spin up some where in the 23,500 rpm , .901 torque range with a run-up time maybe 4-5 sec. as compare to a monster that would start off in the 21,500 range, .931 torque with a run-up time in the 3-4 sec. Without doing any special tuning you would gear both motor differently to run at your particular track in your car using the same set-up that you always do. Which motor would you rather have. Remeber this is just an example.
 
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