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And since Gary is the "expert" behind the horrid atrocity that is the Smithsonian model's uber-weathering job, I don't consider him any sort of expert in any way shape or form. Maybe he should watch an episode of TOS or two before claiming to have a grain of knowledge on the subject matter.

There were no engraved gridlines on the 11-foot model. Fact. End of story. If Round 2 truly wants to be faithful to that original wood model, this kit won't have the lines.
 

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And if they were to be faithful to the 11 foot model, they'd have wires on the port side, and seams that seem to be coming apart on the warp engines.

Sheeesh. Round2 said that there were going to be faithful to what the 11-foot modeler was supposed to represent - a "real" starship dude.

Andy.
:rolleyes:
 

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Having seen the quality of Gary's work for Moebius on their various Irwin Allen kits, that are true works of art, I have NO doubt that this will be THE BEST model of the Enterprise EVER!
 

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And since Gary is the "expert" behind the horrid atrocity that is the Smithsonian model's uber-weathering job, I don't consider him any sort of expert in any way shape or form. Maybe he should watch an episode of TOS or two before claiming to have a grain of knowledge on the subject matter.

There were no engraved gridlines on the 11-foot model. Fact. End of story. If Round 2 truly wants to be faithful to that original wood model, this kit won't have the lines.
You Sir are patently wrong. Ed Miereki (spelling) was responsible for the 11 foot restoration, not Gary Kerr. By the way, Flaming will get you banned permanently from this forum. Respectfully, get your facts straight.
 

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On the subject of expertise, Gary could be the expert on the Smithsonian Enterprise without having been responsible for its look ... just like someone could be an expert on Vincent Van Gogh without having painted any of VG's paintings.
So there's no reason to slam Gary.

Anyway, gridlines or not, I'm buying one. Life's too short.
 

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Ok, put the gas cans away guys. Let's not get this thread locked. We all have our opinions about the kit. There's no reason to fight over it this far ahead. Save the battle for when we see a test shot.
 

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I just hope the instruction sheet is folded in half, not a three way, accordion, fold. If it is a 3 fold, well I will............:thumbsup:

(Come on, if we can't laugh at ourselves, what fun is life!)
If they're folded at all. I won't buy it. I'm sooooooooooo tired of ironing instruction sheets. Don't even get me started on "starch or no starch."

But seriously... it's been a long time coming. Good days, these.
 

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And since Gary is the "expert" behind the horrid atrocity that is the Smithsonian model's uber-weathering job, I don't consider him any sort of expert in any way shape or form...
I'm not flaming. Get your fact straight.
Gary was invited to document the Enterprise "miniature"* prior to "restoration"**. He was not actively involved in the restoration itself. Get YOUR facts straight.

* I put miniature in quotes because that is one big heck-o model!

* I put restoration in quotes because I agree that the weathering was completely overdone.
 

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Since Gary is one of those lucky few to have actually examined the model itself, in person, with his own two hands and his own Mk I eyeballs, I defer to him a great deal regarding what's what on the ol' girl.

Frankly, I may repost that note from him with some added paragraph breaks; as it is, it's kind of tough to read.
 

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For those of us with aging eyes (with comments interspersed...):

Here is 'THE' word, straight from the source:

“First of all, the engraved grid lines on the TOS E's are NOT errors. PL's & my intent is to make a model of the STARSHIP Enterprise - not an exact replica of a crude wood & plastic prop made for a low-rated TV show in the mid-60's.
To clarify, the show could hardly be considered "low-rated" before it had even aired. Not to mention that it'd be a serious lack of professionalism on the part of the model makers to do slipshod work simply because the show they're working for, i.e., paying them, didn't happen to be beating "Gomer Pyle, USMC" in the overnights.

What are those pencil lines on the 11-footer supposed to represent - lines of graphite drawn on a starship with Starfleet's giant space pencil? No, they were supposed to represent grid lines, and when they modified the Pilot ship into the Production version the only thing that mattered was that they *looked* like engraved lines on TV. Btw, while the pencil lines look like engraved lines on film, in person the pencil lines on the 11-footer's saucer look like pencil lines. The moral of the story is that different mediums - film vs styrene - require different solutions. Just because pencil lines looked okay on TV, that doesn't necessarily mean that pencil lines will look equally okay in person on a plastic kit.
Excellent point.

In a similar situation, both Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach recently urged me to go with the designer's intent, not just the cheap prop they built.
Any chance someone could dig up the cost of the eleven footer, and how much that would be in today's dollars? I'm sorry, but there's a big difference between low budget and inadequately budgeted. Star Trek never had enough money for what they were trying to do, but that doesn't change the fact that, at the time, it was one of, if not THE, most expensive show on television (which is one of the reasons it was always in danger of canellation; it's not just a matter of ratings, it's a matter of whether the ratings are high enough to justify the expense {Ex: the original Battlestar Galactica, a Top 25 show that was canned because the ratings weren't high enough to justify the $1 million per episode...which is the rough inflation-adjusted budget for the first two seasons of Star Trek]).

With that in mind, I noticed that Jefferies conspicuously included grid lines on the plans of the TOS ship that first appeared in The Making of Star Trek. He thought that they should be more than thin pencil lines.
It might be more accurate to say that Gene Roddenberry wanted those lines there. If left to his own devices, Jefferies would've had a completely smooth hull. Not even windows. But, since it was, in the end, GR's ship...

Next I looked at the design of the Enterprise model that was built for the proposed Phase 2 TV series. Unlike the ST-TMP version, the Phase 2 ship was supposed to be (and actually looked like) an updated version of the original ship. Matt Jefferies was in charge of updating the ship, and he wrote:

"Basically, what I did to it was change the power units, and make a slight change in the struts that supported them. I gave the main hull a taper, then I went flat-sided and thin with the power units, rather than keeping the cylindrical shape. Trying to work out the logic of the refit, I knew a lot of the equipment inside would change, but I didn't see that there would be any need to change the exterior of the saucer. Certainly, though, the engines would be a primary thing to change. Part of the theory of the ship's design in the first place was that we didn't know what these powerful things were or how devastating it would be if anything went awry, so that's why we kept them away from the crew. And that meant they could be easily changed if you had to replace one."

The budget for the original series was miniscule, considering the intended scope of the series. (Emphasis mine - Bob) That's why they couldn't afford to add windows to the left side of the 11-foot model, only 3 or the 4 rectangular panels on the upper saucer were lit, and why they conspicuously omitted the portside flat panel on the sec hull. Engraving grid lines on the existing saucer would be less-than-desirable for a couple reasons: first, engraving uniform lines on such a large-curved surface would have been extremely difficult. Witness the botched engraving of the 3 rings on the underside of the saucer. Second, scribing lines on the saucer would entail re-painting & re-detailing the entire saucer, which wouldn't be cheap. Pencil lines were simply the most expedient and cheapest way to add grid lines, and even then the concentric grid lines weren't concentric and the spacing of the radial grid lines was irregular. So, in short, the Enterprise was intended to have finely raised grid lines, although the budget wouldn’t allow it.

The budget for the Phase 2 Enterprise model was much larger since the Enterprise was one of the "stars" of the show, and the details & finish on the model had to withstand much closer scrutiny from the camera. Matt Jefferies designed the revamped Enterprise, and Brick Price built the model. If you look at photos of the model, you can see that the gridlines looked just like the ones they later added to the ST-TMP model. These grids are what Matt Jefferies intended in the first place, so they should be a part of the kit. Of course, the grid lines should resemble finely raised lines, rather than soft-edged trenches that make the saucer look like it's covered with ceramic tiles.

There are practical reasons for including grid lines on the kit: they're useful for aligning decals, and much of the weathering on the saucer (plus the tan arc on the upper saucer) is aligned with the grid lines. We're making an effort to make the kit's design flexible enough that everybody can build the Enterprise that they see it in their minds. Remember the debate over whether or not to mirror the side windows on the saucer? I persuaded PL to mirror the windows and include a diagram showing which windows to cover up if the modeler wants to replicate the 11-footer. It's a lot simpler to putty & paint over some windows than to carve new openings in the hull. We're attempting to do something similar with the grid lines - to make it possible to go with either grid option without doing an inordinate amount of work. If somebody doesn't want raised or engraved lines, then they can easily sand them off , or fill them - much more easily than somebody could take a featureless saucer and draw perfectly uniform pencil lines across the top of the saucer, down then sides, and across the curvy bottom. Engraving perfectly uniform lines & rings on a "smoothie" is probably beyond the capabilities of most modelers. I would point out that the "Trials & Tribble-ations" Ent model DID have engraved grid lines.
It's also got an erroneous forward bow light. :freak:

"Seriously, the grid lines in the CG model are not representative of the actual grids, and the factory in Hong Kong IS capable of producing super thin lines.”
If they can pull 'em off, I got no gripe.
 

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Adding recessed lines to an existing kit is pretty much impossible. Recessed lines on a model would be leetle,tiny blades of raised steel in the mold, which means new tooling.
IIRC, that's exactly what AMT did when they added recessed panel lines to the original "smoothie" Enterprise Refit. The molds were machined just a fraction of a millimeter deeper, leaving the panel lines at the original depth. Result: Honkin' ugly, out-of-scale, recessed panel lines.
 

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I don't know if I can take a whole 'nother year of this. Really, hasn't everything that can be said about this topic been said? There must be other really interesting things about this model that we can talk about...!
 

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Interesting they are are making a model of the "Starship Enterprise" and not a model of the "Filming Model Starship Enterprise" Still It's not hard to extrapolate that the unseen side would mirror the filming side. But apparently there is ton of debate on that alone.

Once you get into that frame of mind, then many will have a difference of opinion of what was seen on screen and what was intended to be seen on screen. :freak:

If it "looks like" the Enterprise its good enough for me.
 
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