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Ah, but the blueprints were drawn by Jefferies based on the model as it was at the time (with grid and asymmetrical windows), circa 1966, as a guide for the AMT model, apparently.

In Jefferies' original conception, there were no gridlines and no windows. Both were added at Roddenberry's request. First the windows, and later the grid.
 

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So is the model to be based on original conception or as it existed when it was actually filmed?

I really don't see what the problem is. :rolleyes: They've already told us their plans and intentions: if they can't get the subtle effect they want then there will be no etched lines.

This is going to be the most accurately detailed model of the TOS E ever done. I, for one, am grateful that we're finally going to get this kit and one of this calibre. I think it's going to work out fine. And yet even if it has this one small flaw then that is nothing compared to what had to be done to make the old AMT kit even remotely accurate.

To me this sounds like some are overly anxious and even condemning R2 before we even have a shred of evidence of whether the gridline issue will work as planned or not. I'm long past getting worked up over things I cannot control or automatically expecting the worst when I have insufficient evidence to support such an expectation.
 

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Ah, but the blueprints were drawn by Jefferies based on the model as it was at the time (with grid and assymetrical windows), circa 1966, as a guide for the AMT model, apparently.

In Jefferies' original conception, there were no gridlines and no windows. Both were added at Roddenberry's request. First the windows, and later the grid.
^

Right, and according to what I hear of Round 2's thinking, they want to reproduce what the original Jefferies model was like, so that means no gridlines.

http://www.modelermagic.com/wordpre...03/kg_star-trek_tos_1701_studio_model-001.jpg

The lines visible on the 11-footer restoration photos are VERY faint, and penciled in, so absolutely NOTHING is engraved on the 11-foot model. Also, no gridlines were engraved on the 1/650 model put out a while ago. Thus, Round 2 should leave the gridlines OFF the 1/350 model.

And the windows are asymmetrical on the 11-footer. :)
 

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Adding recessed lines to an existing kit is pretty much impossible. Recessed lines on a model would be leetle,tiny blades of raised steel in the mold, which means new tooling. Whereas raised lines can easily be engraved in a mold. So get out your pencil or sand them off. Your call. Now go to sleep.
 

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Sorry to tell you guys but Matt Jeffries designs came BEFORE the model, chicken and the egg!
You can't just go by that, Matt J. was working under Roddenberry's direction.
And the story is the production version didn't have them either, at the time the model was delivered to the studio. Keep in mind both versions of the pilots didn't have grid lines. Roddenberry insisted they be applied to the model, so they were applied as lightly as they could get away with(so it wouldn't be obvious on camera). Which shows somebody would have rather not have them seen.
 

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Here is 'THE' word, straight from the source:

“First of all, the engraved grid lines on the TOS E's are NOT errors. PL's & my intent is to make a model of the STARSHIP Enterprise - not an exact replica of a crude wood & plastic prop made for a low-rated TV show in the mid-60's. What are those pencil lines on the 11-footer supposed to represent - lines of graphite drawn on a starship with Starfleet's giant space pencil? No, they were supposed to represent grid lines, and when they modified the Pilot ship into the Production version the only thing that mattered was that they *looked* like engraved lines on TV. Btw, while the pencil lines look like engraved lines on film, in person the pencil lines on the 11-footer's saucer look like pencil lines. The moral of the story is that different mediums - film vs styrene - require different solutions. Just because pencil lines looked okay on TV, that doesn't necessarily mean that pencil lines will look equally okay in person on a plastic kit.”
In a similar situation, both Andrew Probert and Rick Sternbach recently urged me to go with the designer's intent, not just the cheap prop they built. With that in mind, I noticed that Jefferies conspicuously included grid lines on the plans of the TOS ship that first appeared in The Making of Star Trek. He thought that they should be more than thin pencil lines.
Next I looked at the design of the Enterprise model that was built for the proposed Phase 2 TV series. Unlike the ST-TMP version, the Phase 2 ship was supposed to be (and actually looked like) an updated version of the original ship. Matt Jefferies was in charge of updating the ship, and he wrote: “
"Basically, what I did to it was change the power units, and make a slight change in the struts that supported them. I gave the main hull a taper, then I went flat-sided and thin with the power units, rather than keeping the cylindrical shape. Trying to work out the logic of the refit, I knew a lot of the equipment inside would change, but I didn't see that there would be any need to change the exterior of the saucer. Certainly, though, the engines would be a primary thing to change. Part of the theory of the ship's design in the first place was that we didn't know what these powerful things were or how devastating it would be if anything went awry, so that's why we kept them away from the crew. And that meant they could be easily changed if you had to replace one."
“The budget for the original series was miniscule, considering the intended scope of the series. That's why they couldn't afford to add windows to the left side of the 11-foot model, only 3 or the 4 rectangular panels on the upper saucer were lit, and why they conspicuously omitted the portside flat panel on the sec hull. Engraving grid lines on the existing saucer would be less-than-desirable for a couple reasons: first, engraving uniform lines on such a large-curved surface would have been extremely difficult. Witness the botched engraving of the 3 rings on the underside of the saucer. Second, scribing lines on the saucer would entail re-painting & re-detailing the entire saucer, which wouldn't be cheap. Pencil lines were simply the most expedient and cheapest way to add grid lines, and even then the concentric grid lines weren't concentric and the spacing of the radial grid lines was irregular. So, in short, the Enterprise was intended to have finely raised
grid lines, although the budget wouldn’t allow it.
The budget for the Phase 2 Enterprise model was much larger since the Enterprise was one of the "stars" of the show, and the details & finish on the model had to withstand much closer scrutiny from the camera. Matt Jefferies designed the revamped Enterprise, and Brick Price built the model. If you look at photos of the model, you can see that the gridlines looked just like the ones they later added to the ST-TMP model. These grids are what Matt Jefferies intended in the first place, so they should be a part of the kit. Of course, the grid lines should resemble finely raised lines, rather than soft-edged trenches that make the saucer look like it's covered with ceramic tiles.
There are practical reasons for including grid lines on the kit: they're useful for aligning decals, and much of the weathering on the saucer (plus the tan arc on the upper saucer) is aligned with the grid lines. We're making an effort to make the kit's design flexible enough that everybody can build the Enterprise that they see it in their minds. Remember the debate over whether or not to mirror the side windows on the saucer? I persuaded PL to mirror the windows and include a diagram showing which windows to cover up if the modeler wants to replicate the 11-footer. It's a lot simpler to putty & paint over some windows than to carve new openings in the hull. We're attempting to do something similar with the grid lines - to make it possible to go with either grid option without doing an inordinate amount of work. If somebody doesn't want raised or engraved lines, then they can easily sand them off , or fill them - much more easily than somebody could take a featureless saucer and draw perfectly uniform pencil lines across the top of the saucer, down then sides, and across the curvy bottom. Engraving perfectly uniform lines & rings on a "smoothie" is probably beyond the capabilities of most modelers. I would point out that the "Trials & Tribble-ations" Ent model DID have engraved grid lines.
Seriously, the grid lines in the CG model are not representative of the actual grids, and the factory in Hong Kong IS capable of producing super thin lines.”

Thank You Gary for the confirmation!

Oh,and if anyone is curious where I stand on the issue....take it or leave it. I voted 'Don't Care'. .............now back to your regularly schedualed tread!
 

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Sounds like Gary's comments should quiet all of us "Armchair Experts" of the Enterprise. (But he did back up my view of both the gridlines and the symetrical windows, which was unexpected!) Gonna be a loooooong year! :)
 

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No matter how much time and effort is put into an accurate kit this iconic, there is going to be a bunch of people upset it was not done differently. They have two real choices- don't buy the kit in the first place or Mod it until they are happy.
I, for one, am just delighted/astonished the kit is actually going to be produced after the way things were looking at the beginning.
 

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I look forward to the people who say they won't buy it if it has gridlines sitting in the dark and grumbling while the rest of us enjoy our wonderful new model kit.

:devil:
 

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I just hope the instruction sheet is folded in half, not a three way, accordion, fold. If it is a 3 fold, well I will............:thumbsup:

(Come on, if we can't laugh at ourselves, what fun is life!)
 

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It sounds like the solution, whatever it may be, raised, engraved, or otherwise will be a minor issue. I will wait for the kit so I may look it over and then decide on a course of action...if any.
 
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