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Why do we need so many different classes at big races? Why not go back to the way oval was when it started with just two classes stock and modified like the old days.
 

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There are several reasons,I think the cost factor is what got it all started,then there were the flood of racers that were quitting because they couldn't compete when we went to 4 cell racing and chassis set up & driving skill became so critical,that's when I noticed a huge downturn in oval.
 

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This has been debated a thousand times. It will never go back to just two classes. We are too accustomed to choice and we want to be able to chose that which appeals to us specifically.

When I started racing it was 6-cell Stock and 7-cell Modified. Stock was SUPPOSED to be the beginners class, (yeah right), and Mod. was for experienced. Unfortunately there were more "sponsored" drivers in stock than Mod. and that ran off the real beginers or those who didn't have unlimited resources to be able to compete. So other "beginner" class were created to give the budget racer or non-blood thirsty racer a place to race and not have to mortgage the farm to be competitive. Hence classes like SPEC racing, Legends and others.

Now the choices are endless. It's up to the tracks to find which classes best suit their clientel and make the race program work and be conducive to growth and fun.
 

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kevjoh said:
Well, the BRL race series only
3 classes: 13.5, 4300, Mod. and is well
organized.
KJ
And like in the "old" days brushless is still new give it time and you will see the same thing happen.
 

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Why do we need so many different classes at big races? Why not go back to the way oval was when it started with just two classes stock and modified like the old days.
In order for things to go back to 'the old days' and only run (I never saw only 2 classes, there were always at least 3) they way it USE TO BE.

"Specialty Cars" need to go away, and we'd need to go back to a ONE CAR Fits all types of tracks car (RC10, aluminum tub or YOKOMO DogFighter 4wd car)

These were run Indoors, Outdoors, Oval, Off-Road, etc.

This was just 1/10th scale, while there was still 1/8th scale and 1/12th scale back then too (I REMEMBER those guys asking WHY WE NEEDED 1/10th scale cars in the first place)

When 1/10th scale went to the old WIDE Pan Cars, the RC Progression jumped on a FAST TRACK of "specialty" cars, which came just after but almost the same time as the Custom Works 4wd DOMINATOR which also changed the face of DIRT OVAL RACING.

At that time Off-Road was about the only 1/10th venue NOT faced w/ MAJOR changes....but after the RC10t came out, they also faced changes w/ "Specialty" vehicles and rapid "TECHNOLOGY" improvements.

ALL these things drive NEW BLOOD out of this hobby...and increase the INTENSITY level of competition amongst the OLD TIMERS who stay up with it...because the cars just keep getting FASTER and FASTER and FASTER...and NEW guys too often have no clue where to even start...and/or are intimidated to try.

OR LIKE MY SON SAYS..."Dad, why would ANYONE want to spend $1000.00+ on RC Cars when the could buy the PS2, Multiple Games and Controls...and NEVER NEED TO LEAVE the HOUSE...and deal with all these people."
 

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Well I got out of the hobby 11 years ago when it was becoming a money hobby and it wasn't fun anymore. You would think there was a million dollars at stake the way people acted.

I just got back into it and have started new classes at the local track to keep the cost down and do it for fun. We run stock touring car oval and stock 4 cell pan with nastruck bodies and the guys that run with us are just fun type guys and don't go off if someone bumps them or spins them out. We are even geting kids in our classes and we really help eachother out to get everyone up to speed so we can all be competive.. There are still those guys with all the money at the track with their computers and dynos etc that run 4 cell stock and turn 3 laps more than we do but they are not having as much fun.. Now it feels like the old days being fun and not stressful.
 

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Just wanted to add some things.

I just started racing pan cars a bout 6 months ago started with 4 cell stock 27 turn.At first I ran 70 laps other guys running 78 laps.So went out bought several motors f brushed puttum brushes 767 brushes bushing reamer hood alinement tool dyno lathe brush cutter ect and with the best motor I could build could only run 75 laps 5 laps better but sill 3 to 4 laps down.

Then we started running 13.5 first time 78 laps and the better drivers 79 to 80.

So what I am saying is brushless made the untouchable with in toughing distance and made the whole field very close in times.

And in 4300 I am right there with the guys that have been racing for years.

Brushless is so close and befor it gets out of control we should keep it that way.

If you want to blow your whole paycheck then do it in mod.

Jake
 

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JDW said:
Just wanted to add some things.

I just started racing pan cars a bout 6 months ago started with 4 cell stock 27 turn.At first I ran 70 laps other guys running 78 laps.So went out bought several motors f brushed puttum brushes 767 brushes bushing reamer hood alinement tool dyno lathe brush cutter ect and with the best motor I could build could only run 75 laps 5 laps better but sill 3 to 4 laps down.

Then we started running 13.5 first time 78 laps and the better drivers 79 to 80.

So what I am saying is brushless made the untouchable with in toughing distance and made the whole field very close in times.

And in 4300 I am right there with the guys that have been racing for years.

Brushless is so close and befor it gets out of control we should keep it that way.

If you want to blow your whole paycheck then do it in mod.

Jake
I agree with you Jake!
That's the problem with brushed motors. Its too easy to bend the rules!
 

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I think we are seeing a gradual shift again,the tracks i have raced at in the past year are leaning more towards the stock-spec-truck-rtr type classes.there is a 2-1 split on heats there,with pro stock and 19t-mod classes barely enough to race. and now with this brushless stuff,it may get more refined yet. we'll see.
 

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There are a lot of great points made above. But, having been in this hobby for almost 30 years now I really believe that what needs to happen is for tracks to have the same rules for each class more than anything. Used to be that ROAR rules were standard issue. Either nobody respects roar or just dont want to follow their rules anymore. BRL has a great thing going but my home track for example (not kicking them in the chops really) is a BRL race track and weekly rules are not being followed or teched. So that adds to body expense, motor expense just to name a couple. ARCOR has all the right ideas and good leadership but is not large enough to cover the country. But even with all that said, to many track have different rules and to go from one to another may require a different motor, body, # of cells, mah of cells and the list can go on. WE NEED A STANDARD to follow again or at least get the tracks around the country on board the same train and on the same set of tracks to make an impact. This I would like to think would help things for those who have limited budgets, or some (like me) who just simply want the same rules everywhere I go. And possibly at the same time limit classes to around 3 in most cases
 

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I know, I know. Now is where the cracks like "you been in this so long, a hop up for a grasshopper was a speed secret". As a matter of fact it was :D


Rob


For you younglings out here that may not know. The Grasshopper came with a 380 mabuchi and the hop up kit was a 540 mabuchi motor with a 19 tooth pinion gear. Woo hoo:freak:
 

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swtour said:
ALL these things drive NEW BLOOD out of this hobby...and increase the INTENSITY level of competition amongst the OLD TIMERS who stay up with it...because the cars just keep getting FASTER and FASTER and FASTER...and NEW guys too often have no clue where to even start...and/or are intimidated to try.
I agree 100% on this, biggest problem is rules, not that there are 4-5 people trying to make them, or the dozen or so "nationals", but that when there is a spec class built it often gets exploited by the "old timers" in this sense. New guy never has a chance even in the beginners class. 2nd problem is transponders, every is worried how fast they are running to the tenth, every week.
 

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i agree im a new driver i bought a l4 and im juming in head first and its hard to keep up with these guys with their fat wallets my brother race din the 80s and hes my mechanic..oh goody for him lol anyway i agree whole hearted with you guys the guys i race run a 6.5 lap and i run a 7 sec ond lap next year ill be running a 6 and they'll be runnning 5s when will they stop getting faster
 

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Everyone likes to win, but not everyone can. The solution is for the fast racers in any class to help get the slower racers up to speed. If you can help make the last place racer's car better than it was when he showed up, chances are he will have fun. If you can help people see that like anything it is going to take time to get better running oval, then chances are they might stick. In our instant gratification world people want to see immediate results. Get people to look at their lap times not to just compare to the fast driver, but to also compare to themselves week by week. I learned this lesson in off-road that I'm not going to win by being on my lid. I look at my lap times for consistency. If I can string 10+ laps in a row with the same exact time then I'm getting the most out of my driving and my car at that moment. If it is faster than I went last week then it is even better. If you help the racers in YOUR class get better, chances are they won't move to another class or create a new class to try and win.

I would guess the reason "the old days" were more fun wasn't because there were fewer classes but because the racers were more of a family. It is the win at all costs attitude that hurts racing, which I'm just as guilty of.
 

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Well, here is some good news. The oval series in Glenn Burnie MD (http://mdhobbytown.com), has a "rookie" class which is attracting some attention from racers of all ages. Its also not unusual to see one of the better drivers helping a rookie.

In addition, there are also some drivers (like myself) that consistently make up the "B" and "C" mains who are in it for the fun. Sure there's a big gap between the faster guys and us goofballs. But the "C" main is where the action is.

It also seems like there's some good attendance at this race. Coincidence?
 

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The people who can't come to grips with the fact that they aren't being beaten by money are destined to quit. I think that is inevitable.

Also, when people think someone has out spent them to win they always focus on the motors and batteries. In reality the only area where there is a real advantage in outspending is tires. Tires are the real expense in oval racing and having the right tires at the right sizes is probably the biggest difference between the "haves" and "have nots". If you show up at the track with one set of tires and that's all you've got for the day it'll be tough to compete with the typical experienced guy and his big box of tires. This is much more true for foam racing then caps though.

The biggest thing in racing is maintenance. If you look at the cars in last main you won't see too many pristine carefully assembled rides. If you look at the cars in the A-main you will see nothing but pristine carefully assembled rides. It takes a fair amount of work to become good and stay good at this hobby and those unwilling to put in the time or accept being in the lower mains will quit.

No matter what kind of class someone comes up with you can't stop another racer from simply working harder than you and that guy will ultimately win.
 

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The old days were great, But with todays technology. Cars are faster handle better and cost more than 15+ years ago. I recently raced 13.5, had the best time. Been racing 4300 and getting slayed. I beleive listening to the amainers, will help you. Find out what works for them and only buy what you need. I remember 20 years ago, newbies could buy a new offroad car. And kick our butts. Thats just not the same anymore. Look at 1/8 scale buggys, every week theres something new you have to have.
 
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