[rwwcarguy]

Is the value of your diecast collection in the future important to you? Is that why you collect?

I ask these questions in response to all the speculation by many in our community about the "Certain" drop in diecast values in the future. If you collect solely for an investment, I guess all the talk of the bubble bursting would be a concern. But if you simply enjoy the hobby of collecting, I suppose a drop in value would be a good thing making many more items available/affordable for your collection. I myself must admit, I enjoy seeing something I own appreciate in value. But I can honestly say, I do not collect as an investment. I collect diecast cars as a hobby. I've had many hobbies through the years and most all of them have been an expense with no expectation of return on investment. If I ever got anything back from selling my collection in the future, it would be a bonus.

As a collector of both Contemporary and Vintage diecast cars, I find it interesting how divided our collecting community can be. Without a doubt, my first love for diecast is vintage redlines. These are the cars that hold some of my fondest memories as a kid. Thanks to the internet, I've been able to network with hundreds of collectors and dealers across the country. Still, you can't just go a buy something you want for your collection. You have to seek it out, evaluate it, and then maybe purchase it if you willing to pay for it. I enjoy this process. Regarding contemporary diecast, for the most part, you can just go and buy it. I guess it's this immediate "fix" that hooked me on some of the newer stuff. That and the fact there is some really nice diecast cars made today. Of course, I'm partial to JLs but I have some of all brands in my collection. I have a Chrome Boss-A-Nova on my desk and every time I pick it up, look at the shinny chrome finish and nice detail, I can't help but smile as I roll it around. Just as I did as a kid. This is why I really collect diecast cars.

So when will the values of White Lightning drop like a rock? They have been available for almost 10 years now and many older ones still command high prices. Clearly, popularity is a factor, just as it is often in vintage diecast as well. Series 202-04 Muscle Cars still sell for quite a bit while Trucking America WLs are obtainable for $10.00 or less. Will the less popular cars today be harder to find in the future, similar to Pink Redlines? Only an investor cares.

Finally, I want to point out, controversy in diecast collecting is not limited to WLs. As I stated earlier, I truly love collecting vintage diecast, although I'm know for collecting WLs here. I follow all the BB's and printed material I can find on diecast. The squabbles over WLs pale in comparison to some of the things I've read from the Vintage only collectors. Fakes, Repaints, Hype, all can be found throughout the hobby. When Bruce Pascal uncovered the Pink RLBB, Tom Strauss himself speculated it was a fake. And you talk about stratosphere prices paid for a diecast, it is rumored he paid over $70,000 for this piece. When a Yellow Bye-Focal sold on Ebay for over $7,000.00 recently, I read disappointment expressed by many collectors about what has happened to the hobby. Is it because Investors are driving prices up or is it the result of the increased popularity of diecast collecting? I speculate both. Actually, it may have more to do with controversay...........

 

[matchboxtom]

Value is not that important. In old Matchbox MIB is the key. If the model doesn't have nice crisp box take 50% off the price. If I was in it for investment I would only buy MIB. My collection is filled with many models out of the dollar box at toy shows. A rare model in beat up condition for a couple dollars is a favorite. When my kids have to sell my collection it might be hard to sell all of the less than mint models. I dont care. I buy for MY enjoyment NOW. Not for future value.

tom larson
http://members.aol.com/matchbxtom/mbclub.html

 

[MAC RAGAN]

Having Fun!

Hi folks,

I collect simply because I love Johnny Lightning cars! (and I hope to still like them when I'm 100!)

MAC

 

[Mark Hosaflook]

Nice to see you posting Bobby!

My two cents.

I don't give a hoot what my collection is worth from one year to the next. I will admit that when I see a car I own go for a certain price somewhere it is nice to know that there is some potential out there of value but if I saw the same car go for pennies the next day I would not lose any sleep over it. My bond is also attached to my cars of youth and fortunately I still have them all. My two favaorites are also the chrome club cars (Nitty Gritty Kitty and Boss Hoss) and I would not trade them for anything including a pink rear load BB. I simply love cars of all scale and my collection show this. It is merely enjoyment and nothing else so I buy only the stuff I like. I don't have a complete set of anything as well.

I thought something like the recent grab bag feature that PM did was great for the hobby. It got whites out to the members. Brought prices and values down so more people could afford them and it made the scalper wonder if perhaps it was time to move on to something else more profitable. Some of the replies were based only on how many whites they got which I thought showed what kind of collector that person was especially when they would gloss over casting like the Hippie Busses, Q cars, Mirror cars etc. Gee thats all I got didn't make sense to me as I myself would much rather get those than a wl military tank.

I don't care if the numbers drop and people leave over values. I would rather hang out with five great collectors than 200 people looking for a chase car.

Mark

 

[robmcin]

. Some of the replies were based only on how many whites they got which I thought showed what kind of collector that person was especially when they would gloss over casting like the Hippie Busses, Q cars, Mirror cars etc. Gee thats all I got didn't make sense to me as I myself would much rather get those than a wl military tank.



Mark

Mark,

I bought the GB especially to get the WL's........ so I can get rid of the ones I don't like for others I do or to sell so I can buy the cars I still need for my collection. Aside from the all white Wl's, ALL other WL's are just currency in my eyes, so I can get the cars I want/need. I already have all the Limiteds (I have been a member forever and have taken advantage of it) so getting 3 more Hippie busses really didn't thrill me, but TFT will get a good assortment this Christmas. Without the WL's, the GB are really only good for the people who have not kept up with the Member's only stuff or the regular series cars. I have to say that I did not get ant regular series cars that I did not already have, but I can dispose of the WL's I got and pay for the GB a couple of times in trades or for cash and still have the other cars to trade for something I need/want. Or maybe to cut up for customs if I ever get time.


Plus it was like Christmas opening them up to see what treasures they contained!


Call me what you will, but if I can pick up something for cheap that will allow me to further my own personal collection, I am there. I am trying to get to the point where my collecting supports itself with no additional help.


Also, one of the ones I will keep is the Truckin' USA Ford F1 WL, because why???? Because it is ALL white!!!


Rob

 

[GeraldE61]

Like Bobby, I collect both Vintage and Modern Diecast.

My personal collection contains mostly Tootsietoys going back to the 1920s.

I collect because:

1. I enjoy restoring and displaying my cars and
2. The thrill of the hunt
3. They calm my inner-child

As for prices, yes, in the Tootsietoy world the prices have dropped significantly since the inception of Ebay, the only thing to go up in value is the MIB, MIP stuff from the 20s - 60s. Even the 70s MIP stuff is starting to climb. But, for the majority of Tootsies, the price is dropped.

Second to Tootsies I collect new JLs because they are the most real looking diecast on the market, and they feature cars I've always wanted to own in 1-1 scale which I will never have.

I grew up in the Redline era, having spent most of my childhood playing either with HWs in the basement or Tonka's in the dirt, I guess my passion for toy cars started a long time ago. My first sentence was "See it go." as I was pointing to a car passing the house. That's when it all started.

Jerry

 

[Kenny Kaos]

What a great post... In recent weeks I have boxed up all my diecast in order to re-structure my hobby... In doing so I couldn't help but think, "Why am I spending so much money on little cars just to put them in a box?"

To be completely honest... I don't know. When I buy a premium or chase car, like the $30 I spent on a HW Poison Pinto last month, or the Money I spent on a SD455 WL, I like to think that I can at least get most of my money back.

But the 500 MOMC Johnny Lightnings I have taped up in the boxes, I know that if I were real lucky, I'd get $1 each out of. Not quite the investment one would hope for.

But, to find 6 perfect castings from a series like HotRod mag. Series, or the New Muscle Car 5 release, returns me to that state of mind "This would look good in my collection."

I collect only JL, mainly because I don’t always have the extra money to buy the JL’ I see at Meijer or KB Toys. But to spread what money I do have out even more, would hinder my purchasing what I really like.

Like Bobby eluded too, the internet is full of chat rooms, discussion boards, and newsgroups of people collecting diecast of one sort of another. But nowhere does the feeling of belonging to a group of people stand out like it does here. Even if my budget says I can’t buy this month, I enjoy this board and learn from its members.

I feel that the decrease in diecast value, if there is any, can be attributed to the normal evils. Dammitman quit buying 67 GTO’s, just kidding… :lol: The economy is bad, people are out of work, and money is tight. It is a more competitive market place on premium diecast. Like it or not, everyone wants your money. And right now, because of new players in the game, the “varsity class” has to work harder to keep their market place share.

I can’t speak on vintage items, it’s not my bag. I’m just not in that league of collector, maybe someday.

 

[Mark Hosaflook]

Mark,

I bought the GB especially to get the WL's........ so I can get rid of the ones I don't like for others I do or to sell so I can buy the cars I still need for my collection. Aside from the all white Wl's, ALL other WL's are just currency in my eyes, so I can get the cars I want/need. I already have all the Limiteds (I have been a member forever and have taken advantage of it) so getting 3 more Hippie busses really didn't thrill me, but TFT will get a good assortment this Christmas. Without the WL's, the GB are really only good for the people who have not kept up with the Member's only stuff or the regular series cars. I have to say that I did not get ant regular series cars that I did not already have, but I can dispose of the WL's I got and pay for the GB a couple of times in trades or for cash and still have the other cars to trade for something I need/want. Or maybe to cut up for customs if I ever get time.


Plus it was like Christmas opening them up to see what treasures they contained!


Call me what you will, but if I can pick up something for cheap that will allow me to further my own personal collection, I am there. I am trying to get to the point where my collecting supports itself with no additional help.


Also, one of the ones I will keep is the Truckin' USA Ford F1 WL, because why???? Because it is ALL white!!!


Rob

Call me what you will? A good collector perhaps? Calm down Rob. read the whole topic not just one sentence out of context. My total point was collect for fun not profit (WL) I saw many posts that read something to the effect.....I only got two whites in 5 grab bags so I struck out. Then when someone asked what the other cars were and they were reported, I thought there were some pretty damn fine cars.

I don't care WHY people ordered the grab bags or what the potential driving force was. Some of the replies were to me a little telling but hey, that's their game and I really don't care. :thumbsup: Who cares what I think, it was only my opinion. :lol: I also said I would not trade a 50.00 car for a 70,000 car so what could I possibly know? :jest:

Take care :wave:

 

[owl]

Purty carz make neato picturez, sayz Owl!

 

[robmcin]

Mark,

I am calm, a little tired perhaps from a tornado and then 2 days without power, but, I am calm. I took the sentence out by itself as that was the part of your post I was responding to. I was just trying to be honest about why I bought the grab bags. I do collect for fun not profit, that is why most of "my" WL's are loose, the BP ones are the ones I will be getting rid of. Nothing was better this last week than opening my box from the UPS man and finding my Kyosho 1/24 scale Cobra Daytonas........man I ripped them out of their cases and playd with them for an hour.....of course, not having electricity contributed to the full hour being used. The same with my Shelby Mustangs from the latest Mustang release and the Collector Tins that i was able to get thanks to my friends on this board......ripped out of their cages before they could get dusty.....waaaahooo!!!!!


The other cars are fine, I just didn't need 3 more Purple Prowlers or 4 more yellow VW Things. But my future grandkids, boys or girls, will love them I'm sure.

As everyone here knows, I think, there are people who felt the cars other than the WL's were just junk taking up valuable space. That is too bad for them. But then again, I like Dragster and Top Fuel WL's along with the Postal and Truckin' USA, so go figure.

Telling replies??? Yes, they were, and so goes the manner in which people are treated in trades and sales. Fair is as Fair does, you know.


And the "Call me what you will" was not directed at you Mark, I believe we know each other well enough that you have already called me what you will!!!

 

[robmcin]

As to the 50 for 70,000....if the $50 cars were yours when you were little or given to you and have a special meaning, I would agree. If you bought them at a flea market 3 years ago, I say trade them and then sell the $70,000 one, buy 2 or 3 more of the Club Cars in mint condition and buy your family something really nice, that's where my mind is at.

Rob

 

[robmcin]

And my final response to this is:



Mine are worth millions, yours are junk!!!

:thumbsup:

Rob

 

[Mark Hosaflook]

Rob

I agree on the old rail castings. I got back into JL AFTER they were gone and those are some killer castings. I would never complain if my whole grab bag was those cars. I don't think PM or anyone else could even afford to do those again since they are really only good for the dragster they represent and by todays standards, thats not near enough of a release.

Yes the chrome cars were from my parents when I was little (and mouthy even then) My dad bought those club cars for me even when he thought they were a waste of money, because I wanted them. I lost him in February so a pink BB means nothing to me. If only I could have talked him into buying me that darn pink bus!

Yes we can pretty much call me anything you want as well :devil:

 

[billypea]

I guess for a few reasons.

1. I like the cars
2. So I can trade them for cars I like but can't otherwise buy or find.
3. So at some future date I might be able to sell some of them and make a buck or two
4. To be able to customize the cars
5. I enjoy the hunts and markets and trades and BBs

probably more reasons too but that seems to cover the main concerns of the topic

 

[RobDog]

My perspective

I started collecting for historic purposes,not financial.
It was my sole intention to make domestic timelines for Detroit muscle cars.
Playing Mantis threw the ball and before I knew it,I was running up the field,expanding from muscle,to domestic cars period.
Once again, PM offered even more variety,VW's, British,Funny cars,Dragsters,Indy,and Gassers.
Hollywood,Cartoon and Frightning themed cars also found thier place into my collection.
I also collect a timeline of Batmobiles,in all available scales.

The idea of "history" was for a reminder of automotive past,hopefully to be passed down to a RobPup.
Alas,this hasn't happened but even if it doesn't, the (hopefully complete)timelines of automobile history will be around for someone to enjoy.

 

[96cutlass]

I collect simply because I love cars. I only buy the models I really like in real life and in certian colors for the most part. I don't really care what they are worth in the future. I'd like to think I can get out of them at least what I've put in to them, but I don't really forsee myself ever selling any of them though. I have no whites or other rarities (just two played with redlines). If I found a white on the pegs, I'd most likely buy it, to keep if it was a casting I liked or maybe trade if it wasn't. I also collect sales brochures (from real cars) and feel much the same way about them. The enjoyment of just looking through them is enough that I will probably never sell any of them in my lifetime, but I enjoy seeing something I already have command a high price on ebay (especially if I got it for free)

 

[Captain Fred]

I collect for most of the above mentioned reasons. I just love cars! I like to look at them, talk about them, play with them, play in them, read about them, watch them on TV, ect... I don't like to work on them as much lately, since they became all computerized and complicated, but watching Monster Garage has started to give me a different attitude about that. This BB and you guys and girls add yet another dimension to my little obsession. Now I kinda have some friends who I can relate to.

I was really pleased when JL made the chrome Holiday series cars, that you can use as Christmas tree ornaments! I own all of the Holiday Muscle and Classics! I bought one of those turning tree stands, so I could see all the different cars on all sides of the tree, as it slowly spins around. I bought several of the Monopoly cars, just so I could get the additional car tokens for my board game. I started buying display cases and opening the little toy cars, so I could display and look at them every day. I started buying other holiday themes of cars, so when Halloween and July 4th come around, I can make my little cars a part of decorating the house for the different holidays.

I'm a poor boy, so I can't afford to buy the most desireable WLs and THs. That makes a succesful hunt that much more enjoyable. It also helps me to offset some of the money that I've spent on this hobby when I sell them. Of course, there are also a few pieces that I probably will never sell. It would be a bonus if I could totally finance this hobby through selling chase cars, but I like to keep too much. I've also decided that I like chrome better than white, with the exception of maybe a pearl white. I prefer realism as much as possible, but I love the chrome!

Then came the JL slotcars............. :thumbsup:

I decided to edit in one more thing, since most of you mentioned it and I didn't. I don't care what my collection is gonna be worth later. I didn't start buying these as an investment. I DID consider scalping a while back. At the time, my job was driving every day and I was able to hit stores all over the state, even some of the other nearby states, almost every day during my breaks. I found lots of good WLs too. Some folks probably would think I was stupid for not taking advantage of the diecast craze. It was fun though. I enjoyed the hunt and was very succesful at it. Too bad JL didn't make slotcar WLs back then. The thing that drew me into JLs in the first place was accuracy and details. The newer JLs are even better, with their detailed chassis and improved wheel designs. If WLs were better detailed than the regulars, than I would have been a WL collector from the start.

I was into slotcars several years before I ever noticed the JL Munsters Koach and Monkee Mobile(the two cars that made me want to start buying diecast). I almost hate to see the slotcars as WLs. It's gonna make some of them hard for me to get.

Then again, I'm looking at getting back into driving! :devil:

 

[Wyatt]

I collect because I like diecast cars. I have little concern for what my collection will be worth when I'm older. When I decided to take mine out of the packages and take pictures of them, I gave a lot of thought to how much money I would lose when I took them out of the packages, but then my conclusion was that I really just don't care what they're worth and that I'm going to enjoy them.

I respect everyone's way that they collect, some loose, some in protectors, and some packed away in an air conditioned storage unit, but I feel like some people are misled by what they see 20 to 30 year old diecast selling for today and comparing what they have in their collection from the last 10 years. So many people are banking on the same returns from their late model collections in 20 or 30 years, but I think that the reality is that values of so many mint/mint/C9+, etc cars saturation the aftermarket can only go one way, and that's down. I also think that as these investors run out of space in their homes and storage units, that they will reach a point where they stop buying and start unloading.

I guess the last bonus of collecting is being a part of the diecast community. I enjoy our family.

 

[fe428cj]

BINGO Bobby, nice post. :thumbsup: I am sure many of us old school collectors remember what the so called investors did to the sports card and coin collecting markets in the early 80's. To bring those markets back and reap many times the sum of the investment, their answer was certification and grading. This will be the future of our diecast hobby also, mark my word it will happen.

cj

 

[zeb41]

I don't think about the future value of my collection. As far as I know, I don't collect anything af any value anyway. I collect solely off my emotional response to what I see, and I don't consider the future value of what I buy because I don't plan on getting rid of anything.