[Pete McKay]

Placed an order from BRS this evening for half a dozen Ninco Rally cars, and I noticed something about one of them. The "Imola" Subaru lists on his website with ball bearings and the NC-6 motor, if that's so this car will be one of the hottest in my collection. Not the hottest mind you, but will be one of the hottest. Between Yoshi and myself we have ordered a dozen cars, I have 3 in my possession now, he has another 5, this makes 20 cars available to the guys in the club. A few of those guys already have their own cars, those that don't will be able to buy these from us at what we paid for them, and we will have a decent supply of loaners as usual. The Imola Subaru I think will stay in my possession. We've bought a few used cars too that will be given to a couple of the younger kids that always show up when the garage door is open and the cars are racing...after, of course, they wash my truck.

The next order I place will be for tune up and replacement parts. I'm already picking the brains of several racers about the Ninco ProShock and ProRace parts, this time there is a complete and total sharing of tech tips between my son-in-law and myself and the rest of the guys. My personal car will be a Citreon C4 (Red Bull) and it will have as many upgrades as I can manage to get past the rules makers. Right now the only real rule has to do with magnets, and we're allowing stock magnets only so long as they draw less than 300 grams on the magnet marshall. That means the NC-6 motor, ball bearings and 30T crown gears will be finding their way into both my team cars.

Our first event will be September 6th.

 

[PD2]

SWEET Pete! BRS/Brain won't steer you wrong and the NINCO cars are always solid racers! Definitely post up pics when you have everything setup and cars ready to race!

PD2:thumbsup:

 

[Pete McKay]

Thanks Paul, here's what's coming:

Citroen C4 Red Bull
Subaru "Monte Carlo"
Focus "Wales Rally"
Lancer "Simm"
Subaru "Imola"
Peugeot 307

I already have the SCX C4 that Sarah will drive, and the black Subaru "Imatra" will be driven as a loaner to Chip Gregory. I bought a used Lancer from Ed, that car is a club loaner and will have a driver as well, just not sure who yet.

Most of the cars Yoshi is getting from Sportscraft and E-Hobbies are Carrera Subaru's, for him, Sarah, Laura, and a few others not on our forum. Remember that some of us may switch cars for 2010 but since we don't know which cars work and which don't we're spending the rest of this year race-testing.

 

[PD2]

Now, this is just my personal opinion, so take it for whatever its worth.......

I think you are doing good race testing, but. I think that what you will find in the end is that the NINCO and SCX cars are going to be the best. The Carrera's are just dead weight and are maybe a step up from AutoArt cars. The AutoArt cars - well, just as their name suggest, they are great art that are perfect for putting on the shelf for display. Don't get me wrong, you can spend some tuning and tweaking hours getting those cars up to the specs of an SCX or *maybe* a NINCO, but out of the box, NINCO and SCX will beat those Carrera's and AutoArt's hands down.

Sounds like you are definitely going to have a GREAT racing program Pete! Looking forward to the first race report!

GIT R DUN!
PD2:thumbsup:

 

[Yoshi Nagura]

Paul I have two AutoArt cars, absolutely beautiful and with some simple changes like tires, they run pretty good too. They don't have nearly the downforce of the SCX or Ninco cars but they have some great accelleration. I have one Carrera Subaru that handles like a dream, I just hope it's not a one-off.

Pete and I both ordered 6 cars, he did from BRS, I got mine from E-Hobbies. He spent something like $225, I spent nearly $300. Mine may get here day-after-tomorrow and Pete's may be here later in the week or early next week, so it's a sort of trade off on time I guess. I finally got my Rally Timer and track so we have almost identical facilities to race on.

For the rest of this year (2009) we're not going to allow changes to box stock cars and race all of the makes, AutoArt, Carrera, SCX, Ninco and Scalextric, to see if anyone mfg. or even model has advantages.

 

[sethndaddy]

We don't race out of the box, but our add ons include silicone tires and magnets, any magnets. Seems like scalextric cars are the easiest to get going, Carreras are ok after some dremel work and proper magnet placement.
But Guys, have you tried the little mmrc cars? (i got an orange king cobra, and it screams with the best tuned cars).
Fly cars look great, but are hit or miss in the tuning department, I have had some that where easy as scalextric, and others that ....even selling my soul to the devil, couldn't work.

 

[Pete McKay]

Seth, we're doing WRC rallys for now, limiting ourselves to AWD contemporary cars for the most part. I will have a 2WD class maybe next year, but I'm also stongly considering a NASCAR layout, possibly even digital.

 

[PD2]

Yoshi - interesting on the AutoArts. Honestly, they used to be the dogs of the 1/32 world and you could hardly get anyone to buy one, let alone race one mainly due to the fact of how little attention was paid to the mechanics of the chassis and car for racing and how much attention was paid to the details. GREAT lookers, horrible racers as we used to say. Maybe things have changed - which would be a good thing for AutoArt.

The Carrera's were just dead weight. Heaviest cars around and yes, poor magnet placement as well as the tires were great for looking at, but you had to chunk them if you planned to race them. Sounds like you have a good one if it is performing that well. I've had two - one is a shelf-queen of a '67 Corvette (aside from the '63, one of my favorites) - and the other was a 575 Ferrari GT racer. Heaviest and slowest car without magnets.

And now that I'm thinking of it, that might be where things change drastically for the cars. Right now, you guys are running with magnets and that might be optimal for the cars. But as soon as you yank the magnets, all bets might be off. Each car may handle, run, and perform totally different and you may need to introduce weights and weight limits to balance the car for non-magnet racing.

Definitely let us know how the cars work out over the course of the races!

PD2:thumbsup:

 

[Pete McKay]

Like we talked about on the rally forum eventually we will be going sans magnets. A heavier car will have some advantage, cars with poor OEM magnet strength will be on a more even playing ground. I've never raced Yosh's AutoArt Subaru's but they are not "stock" by any means. They have Ninco wheels and tires, and I believe a Ninco NC-5 motor. The only thing that the Carrera Subaru has different is it has slick tires instead of grooved, but they are not silicones.

I set up some track last night and ran some laps with my Citreon, Lancer and Subaru's just to see which of those cars work the best. The Lancer and one of the Subaru's are much older SCX cars I got from Ed, but the Lancer was a great handler. I also liked the newer Subaru but the Citreon C4 was the best of the bunch. I have no track borders so I'm being very careful on the curves that don't have area to slide out on and I still was managing times in the 12.5 second range on a 30' lap. That's a completely stock car.

Yoshi's going to write the rules for 2010, not me. I'll make suggestions of course but I'm no longer a promoter, just a racer, and I'll race within whatever limits he decides will make the cars equal. Regardless of everything else I still believe our best bet is to remove the magnets and allow unlimited tire swaps. Weights will be decided but I'm asking for a 300 gram max and a 200 gram minumum.

 

[PD2]

AH! Well then that makes a TON of sense why Yoshi thinks the AutoArt's are great! ProRacing parts will make a turd seem like a racer. LOL!! Magnet racing will heavily depend on the magnet traction, first, and then the tires. So I'm sure you will be experimenting with tires and magnets till you remove the magnets. Then it will be weights and tires with heavy tires focus.

300 grams should be WAY more than enough. 200 is probably more reasonable, depending on how heavy the car is. You will be surprised when you get to sans magnet racing - strategically placed weight on the chassis is more than just piling up the weight.

Have fun!
PD2:thumbsup:

 

[Yoshi Nagura]

Just a quick note, the forum URL has changed to http://132rally.forumotion.net/.

The AutoArt cars are OK, but I agree it takes some work to get them to the same standards as a Ninco or SCX. The Carrera car I have has some work done to it but not so much that it would be out of compliance with anything else. I pressed Pete on his 12.5 times for 30', turns out it's that time for a 60' run, a 30' half lap not full lap. That's about the same as I'm running. Last night we put all of our track together and measured it out to 60.5', which is a 121' full lap and over a kilometer scale. We didn't run laps, that will be reserved for our first rally in September.

The 300 gram rule will be reviewed, Pete came up with a rule that no more than 40% of the weight cannot be magnetic which sounds reasonable. Between 200 and 300 is a decent range to start, we can home in from there.

But it sounds like we're about the only one's really doing anything like this here, on SCI or just about anywhere else. Seems like we're the only one's doing a lot of the things we do lately, hopefully we can get some others interested too.

 

[PD2]

I think you guys will get more of a following for this seeing that the X-Games (original reason this all started for you guys) has a rally car segment. To me, it's almost like drag racing, but yet using a street format vs. straight-line, heads up racing. I wonder if you could adopt some of the concepts of bracket racing and what not too? Just another idea of changing things up.

Regarding the weight factor, that seems about right. I'm looking over our local clubs rules and the heaviest car (the old NASCAR, prior to the CoT) had a weight limit of no more than 120 grams and no less than 110 grams, sans magnets. If you use the 300 grams total down force measured on a magnet marshal, 120 grams is exactly 40% of the maximum 300 grams. To give you any idea, that NASCAR, as I recall, was just under the 110 gram weight, box stock without a magnet, which means you only had about 10 grams to play with on the car. Sounds like very little, but believe me, it was plenty!

Some other things that they implemented: weight must be applied inside or underneath the main body of the car and not on aerodynamic surfaces. And weight can only be visible from underneath the car and barely, if at all, visible from the side of the car. Here are some other things that we could do to the cars:

- You may re-paint it.
- You may add weight.
- You may glue the engine to the chassis.
- You may glue the wheels to the axle.
- You may glue the tires to the wheel.
- You may glue the gears to the motor shaft and axle.
- You may glue any loose body, chassis or detail parts.
- You may lubricate any moving parts.
- You may true the tires.
- You may repair damage in such a way as to restore original function and not improve it.
Just some additional stuff to help you think about the future as you get into your first race. ;-)

PD2:thumbsup:

 

[Pete McKay]

Sort of had magnet shock today, removed the magnet from my SCX C4 and did some carpet racing in my (still) spare bedroom. I had a slight rise, I'd say about 3 1/2" over the course of a 350mm straight with a 350mm crest and then about a 700mm downhill on the other side. Well on the long climb it was OK, it crested well and sounded like it got a little air going down the short side. On the return however, I got serious air, I'd say almost the height of the car, cleared the crest and landed arse over ears on the other side rolling about a dozen times before stopping upside down. Citroens, at least scale one's, don't fly. After putting the magnet back in I still got some air on the short side but this time I stayed in the slot and kept the car under control.

I played with all sorts of elevation changes, I had enough track laid out to get about a full foot of elevation using old Encyclopedia's (I knew those things would come in handy someday) and old VCR tapes. Corners on downhills are tricky regardless of the camber, and jumping the crest only leads to a miserable crash most of the time. We're going to have to temper our rises carefully to avoid broken cars.

Yoshi spent some lathe time today truing up his wheels and tires, I played around with some neo dot's I had on hand trying to find places to put them to get close to spec. One magnet was OK, two put me over the limit so I spent the rest of the day moving it around trying to find a place it would work best. I finally gave up, it seemed to run better without it than with it in the wrong place.

 

[PD2]

Sounds like you had some fun Pete! That is awesome! And that is cool that those little rallies can catch some air like that. I bet having the 4WD helps to pull that front end and keep it in the slot, just as much as the magnet.

Magnet placement on a chassis is definitely VERY specific to the manufacturer. If you don't place it where they intended then your handling and performance are all off. Now changing it to increase or decrease down force might help, but where to place them is so specific. Most of them try to keep it in the centerline, down the length of the car, to pick up the track.

Glad you had fun with the encyclopedias! LOL!

PD2:thumbsup:

 

[Pete McKay]

Well the Imola Subaru doesn't come with an NC-6 or ball bearings as was listed (BRS has fixed the text on the website, no biggie) but it is probably the most balanced car in my stable. John Mears drove it and pretty much showed everyone that an older car, i.e. one without a fancy suspension, can do better anyway. And the tampo's on this car make it the second most attractive behind, of course, my Red Bull C4.

I'm a bit miffed by the belt drive and how loose the tension is to the front axle but the cars somehow get it done. Once I start switching over to the ProRace parts some of that slack will disappear to be sure but then the problem of excessive drag will creep in. John said to put a little STP in the belt and it sticky's it up just enough to get a good drive out of the corners. Never heard of that but I'm waiting to see if he does it to his own car first.

Of all the cars I got 4 have the suspensions, and interestingly enough the Focus "Wales Rally" and my Red Bull C4 had red (soft) shocks up front and yellow (hard) in the rear. We ran it like that yesterday, but today I switched it and they both runs a whole lot better, not diving into the corners so much.

Other Ninco car comments:

No lights, BRAVO!! I like the option of adding lights IF you want to. I have read that the LED lights don't draw any current but it's just one more thng that should be left off to make the cars simple.

Two screws to remove the body. YES!!! Fast, easy and especially when you have only 5 minutes out of impound to make whatever changes are needed.

All in all very happy with these cars and can't wait to get a few more in November.

 

[PD2]

You probably don't need that screamin' NC-6, but the ball bearings would have been nice. Eh, as you said, some cars do great on the plastic delrins.

I've personally never heard of the STP trick. Most people just replace the belt with a better one or the ProRace one, like you said. I'd definitely watch to see if he does it.

Suspension on a car, regardless of type, is always interesting. I've seen it help and I've seen it hurt performance and capabilities. The only way to know is to test each car out and tune it according to each track you race. I've had some that I did not have to touch coming straight out of the box and I've had others that I just locked it all down.

Glad you are liking the cars you got Pete! Keep up the practice and you will be getting some podium finishes soon enough!

PD2:thumbsup:

 

[BRS Hobbies]

Pete,

I apologize for the listing error. The short description stated that the car came with the NC-5 which was correct but the more information listing for the car was incorrect. The NINCO #50357 ProRace Subaru is the car that came with the NC-6 motor and the ball bearings.

Best regards,
Brian

 

[Pete McKay]

No problem Brian, shoot, it could have had the BB's and hot motor the way it dominated the event. Of course the driver was an experienced 1/32nd scale ringer anyway. I'm pretty happy with all of the cars, after I did some shock tuning on the Focus and Red Bull C4 they're working much better now too. As soon as you can get the drive belts in I'm hoping to be able to place a tuning parts order, hopefully by the end of September.

...and your stuff coming from the midwest got here the same day as Yoshi's stuff coming from SoCal. THAT I truely loved since I paid like $60 less than he did.

 

[Pete McKay]

Just an update, 6 weeks later we now have nearly 80' of track and 26 cars among 14 members. We've had 3 Rally sessions, the last being a magnet-less test that found all cars are more or less created equal on stock tires. In the next couple of weeks we will be ordering all of the SPEC parts and some replacement stuff like braids, drive belts for the Scalextric and Ninco cars and of course those SPEC tires.

In January we begin a year long season of Rally Racing. Averaging two races a month for the whole year and mimicking the real world WRC schedule. More cars...more variety of cars, are coming, and possibly a few more drivers. Subaru's seem to dominate the ranks but Ford, Citreon and Mitsubishi are well represented. The first Skoda will show up on Halloween, as will older styles like the Corolla and VW GTi.

We have a forum up, and even though it focuses on the local (Central California) Rally racing scene we invite anyone to participate. The URL is http://132rally.forumotion.net/.