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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
As you may know, CRC Raceway (a division of that evil CRC company that brings you the Advanced speedo) is hosting its 14th Annual New Year Dash in a few weeks. With all the BS surrounding the speedo issue, we have adopted the "Limited ESC" rule in 2 of the classes we offer at the oval event.

The TOUR "Limited ESC" rule legalizes "ALL" speed controls with the stipulation that they are set at the lowest profile or timing setting available. The LRP (SXX and SPX) and Advanced are set at profile #1. The Mamba has the CHEAT mode set to 0 and disabled (must do both). The Tekin is run at software Version 180 with zero timing.

To test this, we assembled a group of experienced and even drivers and set them up with different controllers all set to default levels. We all practiced in an effort to get our cars geared correctly. With 2 rounds and the main, we had a few runs to tweak in the new settings. Like any model car race, we worked hard getting our identical cars (all the same kind) to work as well as we could in the corners. The result;

The Result: ANY SPEEDO COULD HAVE WON!!!

It all boiled down to gearing, car setup and driving. The profile rule absolutely neuters the Mamba and the Advanced. Each driver found themselves adding anywhere from 7 - 11 teeth on the pinion gear from previous profiles. But in the end, no speedo had a clear cut advantage. They were very close.

For those keeping track, the results of the Limited ESC race was Tom Firsching (LRP), John Firsching (Advanced), Brian Wynn (LRP), Mark Calandra (Tekin) and Frank Calandra (Mamba). With different luck, car preparation and driving, ANY one of these controllers could have won. Speeds on the straight were close, no car "blowing the doors off" any other. As normal, the guys that over geared were a little faster up front but slowed at the end. Tom actually went FASTER on profile 1 than he did earlier on profile 8 with his SPX.

At different points during the race, all the different makes were side by side down the straight. Before the start of the main, Mark and Frank did a drag race with the finish being too close to call.

So while this is only one test on one layout, the results were impressive. We will be testing the rule again and encourage other tracks that feel they must deal with the speedo issue to do the same. Don't ban perfectly legal products, give the rule a try. Everyone on the default setting; no dynamic or static timing. Just like the old days of brushed. Profile 1 on LRP and Advanced, CHEAT mode set at 0 and disabled for the Mamba and the Tekin RS Pro at Version 180 with 0 timing.

I still believe we should race with no speedo rules. The rule should be as it has been for years, open speedos, "may the best product win". However, in these trying times, when tracks need racers and racers have spent good money on controllers that simply do not make power, this “limited” rule makes more sense than banning products.

Think for a minute.... let’s say you are a NEW RACER entering the sport.... you look around for the best products.... you want to buy equipment for tomorrow, you want to race and get in the hobby for a reasonable amount of time, you want good equipment that won't be obsolete tomorrow.... you buy your car and a Mamba or an Advanced, the products that are better, the products of tomorrow..... you are all excited to race your first event... you walk into the track and they tell you that your equipment is illegal. Now you have to buy a $200 speedo that is obsolete the day you buy it, just because your local track BANNED the products of tomorrow. You talk about old racers leaving the hobby, think about this new racer who has to buy old equipment just to be legal knowing full well he will need to dump it for next season.

Track owners…. Series directors… Local clubs…. If you feel you must address this speedo controversy, GIVE THE RULE A TRY! Don’t ban legal products.

Let's have a Happy Holiday and may we all make a New Years Resolution to try to introduce and help one new person become a dedicated enthusiast and enjoy the world of model cars and model car racing.

Frank Calandra
*** Avid RC Car racer since 1979
*** Hobby Store and Race track owner since 1996
*** Race promoter
*** And yes, President of that evil CRC company that brings in the Advanced Black Diamond Missle Launch system (brushless speed control)
(don't tell Advanced that I raced a Mamba tonight, they might kick me off the team)
 

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This sounds like a good idea, but I don't think the average track has the man power or time to tech every car before each run. The honnor system doesn't work either. Maybe the top couple of guys may not change the speed control settings, but I am sure a guy trying to bump into the A main would be inclined to bump some timing in and wouldn't even be looked at because he is not one of the top cars.

So using these rules, we would have to have a laptop set up at the track with everyone's hotwire style system and everyone who does tech must learn how to set up every speed control on the market. This may be a good solution for the racers, but not a viable option for all tracks.

Our track is run as a club and the racers run the show. It is bad enough we now have to tech battery temps and voltage since went to lipo, adding something else to tech makes it even harder. Another local track I raced at doesn't enforce the battery temp rule or the voltage rule and know of some people pushing the rules there.

I am just sharing my thoughts. Not looking to start a fight or anything. Just trying to give my opinion from a track promotors point of view.
 

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well for what it’s worth, the tracks can use the same system computers use to see if users are opening their box to void the warrantee, it’s a small piece of tape that will change color, or say open when removed. The track could tech the car; put the tape over the receiver where the Speedo plugs in, so if it is removed it will be easily detected.
Just an idea.
 

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Perhaps you could throw a Novak GTB or Havoc in there in your testing for those that didn't buy into the "newest tech" when it became available?
 

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I agree, it's a tech nightmare. How about just not allowing programmable speed controls in the lower classes at all and quit trying to sell this bill of goods to a bunch of guys who are "Just Not Buying It". We plan to allow open speed controls in 10.5 and above at our track for the fast and financially uninhibited. I am not agueing either, this is just my point of view as a track owner.
 

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I agree, it's a tech nightmare. How about just not allowing programmable speed controls in the lower classes at all and quit trying to sell this bill of goods to a bunch of guys who are "Just Not Buying It". We plan to allow open speed controls in 10.5 and above at our track for the fast and financially uninhibited. I am not agueing either, this is just my point of view as a track owner.
I'm assuming you mean 10.5 and "below" as in anything below 10.5 turn (10.5, 7.5, etc)? The wording you have there is a little confusing. :)
 

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I think under the circumstances the profile/0 timing rule is a good compromise, you cant ban whats already out there, there's never been a speedo rule before ........ and at the local level you do whats right for your racers. Its also not right to ban someone because they have a new speed control, at least with this rule there is an option. If a racer comes from out of town to a track, they can race and not be turned away.

Snowbirds should be interesting....... :thumbsup:
 

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Sorry, yes that is what I meant. 10.5 and faster is what I meant
I'm assuming you mean 10.5 and "below" as in anything below 10.5 turn (10.5, 7.5, etc)? The wording you have there is a little confusing. :)
 

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It should be about like any previous Snowbirds except for the fact that certain speedo companies will make a ton of money so everybody can be equal again.
I think under the circumstances the profile/0 timing rule is a good compromise, you cant ban whats already out there, there's never been a speedo rule before ........ and at the local level you do whats right for your racers. Its also not right to ban someone because they have a new speed control, at least with this rule there is an option. If a racer comes from out of town to a track, they can race and not be turned away.

Snowbirds should be interesting....... :thumbsup:
 

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Just tech the TQ, and the A-Main winner after the race. Don't allow the person to take the car back to the pit. It will take an extra 10 min total. Most local races should be pretty limited tech anyway as most trust the honor system. Spot tech things. If someone bitches they need to charge their battery take it out for them. It really isn't that hard.

FYI...I have "teched" (if that is even a word) cars for a long time, and I have done so for some big events so I know what it is all about. I am talking from experience.

Joel White

BTW...I do realize it will add some time on the tech table, but this is what we have to deal with today. It is either piss people off and allow the "super" speed controls, or piss people off and don't allow them...either way you are not going to make everyone happy. This solution makes it so you can compete and not have to speend a butt load of money to do it....IT IS FREE...
 

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kewl good news for once!
 

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If I were legal and got bumped from the A main by someoe who wasn't but that person didn't win then it's ok? Riiiight
 

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That is great Frank. Thanks for the information. Sounds very promising!
Ditto....

I applaud you and others (Pemberpile) for your efforts on this. I think over time this limited class will morph into an open class but for the moment it sounds like it could quell the controversy if the track operators will buy in.
 

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Perhaps you could throw a Novak GTB or Havoc in there in your testing for those that didn't buy into the "newest tech" when it became available?
Gtb is fine. I ran it last year with all the Tekins and had no trouble with getting blown away by technology. Now my driving.....that's a whole 'nother story. BTW, are driving lessons still on backorder??:wave:
 
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