[Steve H]

OK, hopefully not too cryptic a header!

So my interest in stuff tends to go in waves, and right now I'm back into the Gerry Anderson stuff, thanks in part to a thread in the movies section about the DVDs going out of print. So I've been on a binge, scooping up DVDs, and books, and reading alot about the effects models created back in the '60s, and something tickled my mind, a question I've always had.

What did those craftsmen working on Fireball XL5 and Stingray and Thunderbirds et al use to build those models, to stick all the different materials together?

Now, I figure with the 'kitbash' vehicles such as the Helijet (shoutout to Hunch and this thread http://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/showthread.php?t=361382 ) were likely put together with industrial solvent, something like MEK, as I can't imagine they kipped off to High Street to buy a case of Airfix tube cement (altho to be fair, tube cement does have its uses)

But there were so many other constructions of all manner of mixed media. Wood, cardboard, metal, styrene plastic, the 'nothing sticks to this' material of toothpaste tube caps and shampoo bottles, even old Bakelite radio knobs. What the heck did they use to stick all that stuff together?

Recall, it had to be stable to stand up to the hot hot stage lights, to endure the abuse of being flown or run on the 'rolling road', to last several days of abuse and THEN maybe crashed or blown up or set on fire.

All that before Superglue. That's a key point. AFAIK no Superglue until the '70s.

Of course there likely wasn't just one glue. I'm sure, for example, hot melt or contact cement was fine for gluing plastic sheet onto wood (as seemed to be the case for the Moonbase Alpha building modules) but how did they take a cardboard tube, mount it on a fiberglass box, stick plastic and metal bits on it and then manage to paint, weather, string it for flying and it didn't just fall apart the minute those hot lights hit it?

And don't forget, time. Not much time to build all those amazing models. Had to crank them out week after week.

So, knowing the wide depth of knowledge here, I thought this was a good time to ask the question. Any thoughts?

 

[SteveR]

Epoxy?

 

[Steve H]

Epoxy?

I assume that was in the toolbox, yes, but the time to cure...

But still, that may have been the main go-to. At least when it came to wood/plastic.

I'm just wondering if there was some kind of 'do-all' cement that maybe isn't used now because it's considered super harmful or something.

 

[SteveR]

Maybe the larger components were screwed/bolted on?

My dad knew most of the glues back in the sixties & seventies, and if I recall, MEK, 5-minute epoxy and contact cement were the order of the day. He wasn't in the film biz, but he knew his glue, having given numerous clinics on railroad car scratchbuilding and construction.
If it was big, he nailed/screwed/bolted it together.

As for the setting time, the shops may have worked that into the schedule, working on one miniature while another was setting. Maybe.

 

[Dyonisis]

AMBROID GLUE. This is what we used back in the day to get hard to stick things together. Elmers' is another one. Epoxy wasn't used a lot back then it was reserved for more surfboard related media before polyester came onto the market. Superglue came out in the seventies, but it was first developed in the sixties to help secure wounds on the battle field. It first saw action in vietnam. It was intended to be used on wounds that could be sutured without needle and thread. It was fast, cheap, and easy to use with no real medical training. At that time it was expensive for civilian use since it was so new, hence the small bottles these were first packaged in. The cyanide content was not a factor since it was so small an amount. When things were to heavy, or thick for glue to secure - they were bolted in place.

 

[Chrisisall]

In the late 60's, I remember epoxy being my 'miracle worker'. And it remains so to this day.:thumbsup:

 

[SteveR]

Here's a thread on Ambroid: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1099746
It seems to be popular with RC plane types.

 

[Steve H]

Here's a thread on Ambroid: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1099746
It seems to be popular with RC plane types.

Ambroid. Now that's a name I've not heard in a long time. A long time.

Isn't it more or less contact cement in a tube? I used it just once, back in my wayward youth. See, I was buying most of my kits from the local hardware store, and sometimes Woolworth's downtown. The hardware store suggested I use Ambroid (orange tube, I'll never forget it) and you know, that did a jack crap job on my Aurora Seaview.

man, I STILL recall it. A kind of orange/yellowish translucent, thick, left 'strings' like crazy, and of course did nothing to melt styrene to styrene.

but with the power of hindsight I could see that gup doing well with plastic parts on cardboard or plastic sheet on wood.

 

[Captain April]

Also keep in mind that for a lot of those effects models, they only had to hold together long enough, and look good enough, to get the shot; long term survivability and how it looked in a display case wasn't much of a concern (that's why so many effects models look like crap, while we slave away trying to make the home version look exquisite :freak: ).

 

[Steve H]

Also keep in mind that for a lot of those effects models, they only had to hold together long enough, and look good enough, to get the shot; long term survivability and how it looked in a display case wasn't much of a concern (that's why so many effects models look like crap, while we slave away trying to make the home version look exquisite :freak: ).

Of course, yeah I get that. I think I even pointed it out in a different thread.

But it's funny, it really looks like many of the models in the Anderson shows were built to last, unless they were specifically meant to blow up in the episode. There's a surprising amount of re-use, hence we 'know' about the two kinds of helijets (the one made from Kamen Husky parts and the larger made from some Chinook or similar twin rotor heli kit).

Man, I wish there was enough of a market for someone to crank out some 'guest' vehicle kits from the various Anderson productions. I know Imai in Japan back in the day whipped out a few from Thunderbirds but they were all International Rescue machines, and Aoshima gave a good try with the Fireflash kit, but man, I want a Helijet!

 

[Dyonisis]

Here's a thread on Ambroid: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1099746
It seems to be popular with RC plane types.

It works best with porous materials. This is what we used in the studio for most of our props, and kits. It didn't hold well if you didn't let it dry solidly, but even back in the day it wasn't meant to survive more than shooting time would allow. It's more of a plastic in itself. It dries very hard, but you have to know how to use things imbedded in it to get it to work really well. This is what most of the models that were blown up in Star Wars were glued with because of its' brittleness. It dries very hard to plastic, but can be easily exploded without being too resistant! Most of the props were glued as they were wooden, or resin copies. It didn't matter if they didn't survive filming as the hero versions were made of metal. A screw in a part, or a nail inserted into a part to help the glue hold wasn't a rarity - it was a neccessity! Maybe the guy at the hardware store thought that gluing a model meant a wooden one. These were highly popular when I was a kid. Plastic models were still just catching on.

 

[portland182]

Aoshima gave a good try with the Fireflash kit, but man, I want a Helijet!

Small gashapon toy is available

http://thunderbirds.sfdaydreams.com/toys/ktbirds.htm

Scroll down

 

[Daikaiju1]

To get back to the original question here, I read somewhere that the main glue used for the kitbashed models on the Gerry Anderson shows was Evostick, a kind of rubbery contact cement.

In one of my books, someone recalled that they first thought Derek Meddings was a nervous type of character as he was always picking at his hands. Later they realised he was constantly peeling bits of glue from his fingers!

Now if I can find the darned reference...

 

[Steve H]

To get back to the original question here, I read somewhere that the main glue used for the kitbashed models on the Gerry Anderson shows was Evostick, a kind of rubbery contact cement.

In one of my books, someone recalled that they first thought Derek Meddings was a nervous type of character as he was always picking at his hands. Later they realised he was constantly peeling bits of glue from his fingers!

Now if I can find the darned reference...

AHA!

Ok, good, that sounds interesting!

Maybe it was ' 21st Century Visions'? Or 'Century 21 FX'? Both of which I need to get and boy tht's gonna hurt the wallet.

 

[irishtrek]

Spit wads, bubble gum and clay perhaps???

 

[Captain April]

Tiny bits of fishing line tied with discrete knots?

 

[Dyonisis]

Spit wads, bubble gum and clay perhaps???

Obivously you haven't read any of my threads lately - only I do that! I'll have to now, since I can't get Sculpey to work for me...

 

[irishtrek]

Obivously you haven't read any of my threads lately - only I do that! I'll have to now, since I can't get Sculpey to work for me...

You've got some threads?? How many and what colors are they??

 

[scotpens]

Superglue came out in the seventies, but it was first developed in the sixties to help secure wounds on the battle field. It first saw action in vietnam. It was intended to be used on wounds that could be sutured without needle and thread. It was fast, cheap, and easy to use with no real medical training. At that time it was expensive for civilian use since it was so new, hence the small bottles these were first packaged in.

Cyanoacrylate glue has been around longer than that.

From Wiki:

Cyanoacrylates were developed in 1942 by Dr. Harry Coover and Fred Joyner of Kodak Laboratories during experiments to make a transparent plastic suitable for gun sights. Although not appropriate for the gun sights, they did find that cyanoacrylates would quickly glue together many materials with great strength. Seeing possibilities for a new adhesive, Kodak developed "Eastman #910" (later "Eastman 910") a few years later as the first true "super glue."

 

[Y3a]

I found this:

The original cyanoacrylates (the chemical name for the glue) were discovered in 1942 in a search for materials to make clear plastic gun sights for the war, and scientists stumbled upon a formulation that stuck to everything that it came in contact with. However, cyanoacrylates were quickly rejected by American researchers precisely because they stuck to everything! In 1951, cyanoacrylates were rediscovered by Eastman Kodak researchers Harry Coover and Fred Joyner, who recognized its true commercial potential, and it was first sold as a commercial product in 1958.