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Discussion Starter #1
As many of you know, I am completely new to this hobby. (If you didn't know this already, I'm sure this thread will prove it.) :)

A forum member here (Mking) was gracious enough to send me some cars and controllers on loan, so I could check them out, and hopefully get a better understanding of the differences between them. I'm guessing that my "What's a pancake motor?" in another thread might have been the motivation that Mike needed to realize "This guy needs help!" ;)

Mike put each car in a baggie and labeled the baggie, so I would have an idea of what I was looking at. I then removed them all from their identifying baggies so I am now clueless as to what each one is. :cry:










Actually, I did not do that. I took a picture of each one before removal. My test at the end of this class will be to place them back in their proper homes without having to refer to the baggie pics.



What I would like to do is post my observations of each car and have you all chime in with additional info, or to correct me where I go astray.

I know this will be valuable information to me, and hopefully there are others who can benefit from my real basic review and the the input from those in the know.

Reviews will start popping up soon.




Scaf
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Over the past couple evenings I have had a chance to give most of the cars a few laps around the track. Aside from one car that really grabbed my attention, the predominant factor that stuck in my mind was the differing sounds of the cars. They all sounded different then the Tomy/AFX Indy cars I have been running. It was a nice change for the ears, and one that, at this point in my hobby, I believe will play a factor in what cars I choose to run. Some seemed to amplify ever little fault in the track layout, clacking at many track joints, and even though they may be fast, the sound diminished the enjoyment. Others seemed to simply whir around the track, and were a pleasure to listen to.

Tonight, I decided to concentrate on a car for analysis.

As I believe is normal practice when doing this, the procedure is to flip every car onto it’s top, and then see which car rights itself first, to determine which car is to be run first.



The Tyco HP2 made a strong move, but it was the (2) Tyco 440x2’s that virtually tied in righting themselves.



(I had to go to my baggie pics in order to identify them.)





Aside from the baggie info, the note from Mike also told me the Lexan covered car was a ‘racing’ chassis. I went to my Tyco reference book by Dan Esposito, and confirmed the Indy style car as being a Tyco 440x2 chassis (car 40 on page 35), but did not find a ‘racing’ chassis in the book. I’m guessing therefore this is a customized version of possibly the same chassis.

I started by racing a few laps using the Indy car and my 45ohm Parma. The sound was nice, and the magnetic traction was enjoyable. Maybe not as much magnetic traction as the G+’s, but it was a very fun car to run. The Tyco 440x2 chassis is one I have often seen mentioned in forums and on the bay, and from this experience, it is one I will definitely consider for future car purchases.

I decided at this point to hook up one of the controllers that Mike had sent me, and see if I could tell a difference. I chose a Parma with a 90ohm resistor, that also had a switch to select between 70, 80, and 90ohms.



Set at 80 ohms, I ran a few laps, and was able to notice a difference. I was able to use much more of the trigger travel as I ran the car around the track. With the 45ohm, I was probably using about ¼ to ½ inch of travel, save for some faster blips, much like the G+’s. With the higher ohm controller, I was moving the trigger much more, giving more detail or control at different speeds. It was taking some getting used to though, since I had already developed a feeling with the 45ohm unit. I deslotted a bit more with this controller.

And then, after what seemed like a fairly benign deslot, the car stopped performing like it had. I was having to give much more power to get it to move, and it would frequently just stop. After a few bumps to get it going, it finally just stopped altogether. No power to lane. After some troubleshooting, I realized I had blown the in-line fuse on the controller wire. I’m glad the fuse blew before I damaged the controller, but it is making me wonder if the 5A slow-blow fuses I put at each station are properly sized, since this was a 1A fuse on the controller.

I put the Indy car on a different lane, went back to the 45ohm controller, but the car was still not running normally. It was stalling out constantly. I set is aside for the moment, and ran my G+’s to compare. They were running normally, so I gave the other 440x2 a run.

Oh…My…Gosh!

This ‘racing’ version of the same chassis hauls butt!

For reference, my average lap times with my G+’s are just under 8 seconds. It takes a bit of work to get up to that, and on a rare occasion I can drop a lap time under 7 seconds for a single lap. With this lexan covered 440x2, I was mid 7’s at the start, mid 6’s after a few laps, and for the first time ever dropped in a lap under 6 seconds!

Plus, it sounds awesome!

I flipped the two 440x2’s over on my table to compare them.





The green motor jumped out at me right away. I have heard mention of green motors, and I am guessing this is a major hop-up. The shoes are also different, as are the rear axle gears, and then more obvious things like the front wheels, and of course the lexan body mounts. The magnets on the racing version are much more powerful then the other car also.

I have no idea which of the differences make the major difference in how it races compared to the other car. Maybe it is just the pink rear tires. In any case, it was a real treat to run.

One big thing I noticed on both cars was the spring for the shoes. It is not a spiral slinky spring like I am used to, but a bent wire.



I then noticed that on the Indy car, one of the shoes was much more stiffer to compress then the other. I think something happened to the tension on the spring when I deslotted this car, and this then led to me burning the controller fuse. I don’t know how to fix the tension, and am reluctant to even take off the shoe to investigate it more. But something seems to have went astray here.

If you read all of this, I applaud you. I have (12) more cars to check out, but I don’t think I will be able to go into this much detail on them all. However, if you insist, I will see what I can do. :)

Scaf
 

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Great Job, I enjoyed this immensly.

My hats Off to Mike.......To not only send cars but also Parma controllers for a new guy to try out is really a fantastic gesture and a real opportunity for scaf to not have to take his "Hits" while learning.
If there were a Hobbytalk Medal for helping out a member, you certainly would have earned it !!(sure hope they were doubles, sounds like you may not get that 440X2 racing chassis back ......:) )
 

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TYCO 440x2

From JC O'Connels chassis pages:

http://members.aol.com/hifisapien/tycochas.htm

The TYCO 440-X2 Magnum Chassis (1983)

Original 440-X2 (narrow) Chassis version 1

In 1983 TYCO updated the 2 year old 440 magnum chassis ( maybe at AFX's pushing..they released had their Super G-Plus chassis in 1982). What they did was scrap the bar traction magnet used in the 440, and replaced it with two smaller but more powerful magnets on each side of the chassis similar to the configuration that the CHHP2 used. The result was fantastic. This chassis was simply the best ever at it's time of release in 1983 & remained on the top of the heap until about 1990 when the TOMY Super G+ chassis was unveiled. The 440-X2 is still the current top of the line TYCO chassis 13 years after it's release. A new 440-X3 chassis was planned for release in 1996, but it was cancelled or at least postponed indefinitely due to increased power requirements & safety concerns.
 

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Scaf's Chassis Notes

1. The stock Indy chassis has sucky tires. My bad, I didnt check it very closely. Its just a runner from my pit box. Wanted to give Scaf a chance to experiment with different chassis.



2. The "racing" chassis was an[url="http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-1751-2978-71/1?AID=5463217&PID=1606754&mpre=http%3A//www.ebay.com"] eBay!![/url] purchase that someone did a pretty nice job on. Appears to be polymer motor magnets and polymer traction magnets, silver electricals, and a balanced racing arm. A very fast chassis, a bit faster than a stock Wizzard. I remember getting a pretty good deal on it, $30-35 or so.
 

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Parma Controller Notes

The 3 position parma is from NJ Nosatalgia Hobby. On my home track I have magnatec braid, not rails (like Ed Bianchi's routed tracks)

http://www.horacepro.com/track.html

i am forever shorting controllers, so I put pretty low amp slow blow fuses in my controllers. lots easier to replace a cheapie fuse than a controller resistor.

my track looks alot like this:
 

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Scaf -
this thread is great. As a relative newbie myself, I've only had a chance to run Super G+ cars with my stock tomy controllers, so this is pretty beneficial to people like me!
Continue with all the detail you can handle! :)
 

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"green motor"

There are several "green" motors that are higher performance.

Aurora Tjets origianlly came with christmas tree arms (one pole green wire , one pole red wire, one pole orange wire) or orange wire/grey tip arms. these arms were 16 ohms or higher

Aurora then released a hop up arm with green wire that had a lower ohm rating. That started the "green" motor = high performance. Aurorar released other hopup arms as well, including a blue drag arm.

Mabuchi makes can motors that are used in artin, marchon, tomy, and tyco slot cars. the term can means the motor and brushes are encased in a frame, so you usually replace the can as a unit. the 440X2 and super G+ use a different design, where the arm and brushes can be replaced independently. the motor wire used in Mabuchi can motors includes gold, red and green. tomy motors are usually red wire, older tycos are gold wire (with some green wire motors), and marchons/artins seem to vary alot (ive seen gold, green and red). some people have a preference, believing that the green wire motors are better. i do not know if macbuchi ever planned to make different grades of motors using different wire. i do know the old tyco can motors and the tomy/artin/marchon can motors are a slightly different design, and the newer can motors in the tomy/artin/marchons are better motors than the older style can motor used in the tycos.

many of the chassis Scaf has to test use can motors, including: 2 marchon chassis (newer can motor), a tyco HP-2 chassis (older style can motor), a tyco HP-7 chassis (older can motor), an artin (new can motor), and a tomy turbo (new can motor).

the "green" motor in the racing 440X2 chassis has an aftermarket arm in it. aftermarket arms are usually marked some way to help differentiate them from stock arms. they can have anodized stacks, painted stacks, etc. different customizers use different markings. that motor just happened to have green stacks. i dont remeber the color of the wire; i am guessing red.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Ok....

Since Crimnick advises that you guys insist, I will try and review a couple more cars tonight. :) May have to do it with the garage door closed, because if my neighbor across the street sees me tinkering in there, he will bring over a couple beers and want to flat out race.

Staying with the 440x2's for a moment though, no one has commented on the shoe springs being different from what I am used to which are little slinky springs like the G+'s have. Are these wire springs common on more chassis' then just 440x2's?

One of the springs on the Indy style car is definitly (edit: at least I think the spring is the reason) putting more pressure on it's shoe compared to the other, but both springs still appear to be properly in place. Do you adjust these springs somehow?

I think this increased tension is what caused the car to first sputter (other shoe was not touching the rail because the too-firm shoe was holding the car too high), and then eventually caused the blown fuse (as I tried to fix the sputtering by....well.....giving the car more juice :) ).
 

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A old Tomy pick-up spring trick,was to squeeze the springs between your fingers till they gave a little click,might be worth trying
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Tonight I paired up two more similar chassis. These are Marchon chassis, and per the baggies, can be purchased for a bargain (like $4 each).





Mike also advised that aside from different lexan bodies, (and stronger magnets on the red car), both chassis are PN# 22463.



A couple things caught my attention on these cars when I started to really look at them. One was the screws that hold the lexan body’s on – they are attached from the top!



What’s up with that?! The rear one isn’t even centered on the car!



I don’t know much about Marchon, and don’t recall seeing them mentioned in forums like the other popular cars. Are they still around manufacturing HO cars? I could see this top-mounted thing being an issue with customizers utilizing their chassis product. I also have not been a fan of lexan bodies (although last night’s experience with the 440x2 racer did change that some), but these exposed screws are kind of a turn off.

Having said that, the cars told me that they weren’t here as part of a fashion show, and I should give them a few laps. So I did.

And I liked them.

I’m beginning to think that any lil car that allows me to race it around my track I am going to like. I know what you guys are thinking, and wanting to ask me.

"Yea, but how did they sound!"

Well, they sounded pretty good. A little clackier then the Tycos, and not as much whir sound, but they sounded good.

The cooler looking red car sounded a bit better I think, but I did not really notice a difference with the stronger magnets that is has, either when racing, or when doing my lift-from-track test.



A few other things I noticed about the cars:

The chassis are orange (nothing gets by me).
The shoes are wider.
They have can motors (sure, Mike mentioned this above, but I did also notice it).
The chassis is wider, and would require modifications to do an open wheel body.

In conclusion, the car seems ok. The body mounts may limit what you can do with it (Not sure what type of original bodies these puppies ship with). The price is affordable at just $4 each, which I like. If you cannot get a sweet looking body on it other then a lexan body, and not knowing what you can do performance wise with it, then you might be better off investing in a chassis that allows more flexibility. I’m starting to think that if you plan on using a lexan body, then the chassis should be a screamer, for if it is a marginal performer, it should at least look real good.

Next up (maybe even yet tonight) some thoughts on controllers, since I used a few different ones tonight on these Marchons, and last night's racing-chassis Tyco (Indy Tyco is still in the shop), and my Super G+'s.

Ohhhhmmmmmmmssssss
 

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Scafremon said:
Ok....

Since Crimnick advises that you guys insist, I will try and review a couple more cars tonight. :) May have to do it with the garage door closed, because if my neighbor across the street sees me tinkering in there, he will bring over a couple beers and want to flat out race.

Staying with the 440x2's for a moment though, no one has commented on the shoe springs being different from what I am used to which are little slinky springs like the G+'s have. Are these wire springs common on more chassis' then just 440x2's?

One of the springs on the Indy style car is definitly (edit: at least I think the spring is the reason) putting more pressure on it's shoe compared to the other, but both springs still appear to be properly in place. Do you adjust these springs somehow?

I think this increased tension is what caused the car to first sputter (other shoe was not touching the rail because the too-firm shoe was holding the car too high), and then eventually caused the blown fuse (as I tried to fix the sputtering by....well.....giving the car more juice :) ).

The wizzard cars use a simular spring set up...with two arms instead of the single...they can be tweaked by hand as was mentioned..
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Bear with me guys/gals - I warned you in advance I am new at this.

After posting the above, I was sitting here wondering how the lexan body on the tyco was mounted. So I checked it out, and now things are starting to click better.

The lexan bodies could have been mounted differently on these Marchon chassis, by adding lexan body mounts to the sides of the chassis, or even using velcro like another car Mike sent me.

Color me embarrassed for much of my post above regarding dissing the mounts of the bodies. Still, these chassis may not be good for custom non-lexan bodies (he says, pending more thought and yet another retraction).

Scaf

(dang...just when I thought I was getting good at these reviews)
 

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marchon chassis

i like these chassis, lotsa bang for the buck

to answer Scaf's question about stock bodys, stock marchon bodies tend to be very heavy and not all that pretty (ok the planes and monster trucks are cool)

http://cgi.ebay.com/MARCHON-MR-1-Slot-Cars-Collectors-Guide-Book-1988-1996_W0QQitemZ140092902027QQcategoryZ2619QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item140092902027

the top mounted screws may not look pretty, but are an easy mounting solution. the aluminum tubes on the tyco racing chassis are alot more work, even though they look better.

it was interesting that Scaf didnt notice much of a difference between the chassis, on my track the chassis with the aftermarket magnets is much faster (i guess magnatech braid has more magnetic attraction than tomy rails). i bet you would notice more of a difference on lifelike track.
 

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screws

btw, the screw holes on the marchin chassis were originally to mount a funky siren/light unit.

 
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