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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Basically wondering if the 2016 Beyond Refit Enterprise will be a plastic kit? Another possibility is Refit pylons and other details made in the garage kit community. I believe someone made a Refit Impulse vent after the last film.

http://i.imgur.com/NAVWplv.jpg


Please, only serious replies.

A March 2016 thread asking about the Refit Enterprise kit being in production was treated with asinine comments about how no one would buy such a POS. The poster's question was never answered, but it was ridiculed. Shameful behavior. Especially for people here.
 

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I hadn't noticed they'd swept the nacelle pylons back for this new version. Was that in the STID version as well? I like that graphic. FWIW, I've never minded the idea that the JJ Universe (now officially "the Kelvin Timeline) Enterprise is much larger than its TOS counterpart.
 

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I would wait and see what they do with the E at the end of beyond. I have a sense that, that last shot in the trailer of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy that they are looking at a new refit.
 

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IIRC they also narrowed the width of the dorsal pylon to make it appear more vulnerable during the attack scenes. The warp engines are also a bit smaller.

I think whether they release a refit version depends on two things. Did the sales of the original NuE sell well enough or exceed expectations and will it appear in the fourth film as is or will they introduce an all new ship design instead. Return on investment is important and making a partial new tool for the ST-B refit needs to have either great sales or be something people are going to want for a while. It will be a business decision having nothing to do with the merits of the design- will it sell enough to make a profit?- if not then it will be up to the aftermarket people to supply the changed parts.
 

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I think whether they release a refit version depends on two things. Did the sales of the original NuE sell well enough or exceed expectations and will it appear in the fourth film as is or will they introduce an all new ship design instead. Return on investment is important and making a partial new tool for the ST-B refit needs to have either great sales or be something people are going to want for a while.
More and more I think it really boils down to whether the licensee simply wants to do it. For some reason, Star Trek models are just sooooooooo hard to produce and such a gigantic, potentially company-destroying risk that companies can't possibly release new subjects unless a gun is to their heads. **cough-Round 2-cough** Yet, we somehow manage to get models from Interstellar, Fantastic Voyage and Space:1999. Was ROI factored into the decision to make the LIS Derelict? Or maybe CBS's license is simply ungodly expensive that companies make virtually nothing on Trek products. If that's the case, it falls on CBS and Paramount to loosen the spigot.
 

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IIRC they also narrowed the width of the dorsal pylon to make it appear more vulnerable during the attack scenes. The warp engines are also a bit smaller.

I think whether they release a refit version depends on two things. Did the sales of the original NuE sell well enough or exceed expectations and will it appear in the fourth film as is or will they introduce an all new ship design instead. Return on investment is important and making a partial new tool for the ST-B refit needs to have either great sales or be something people are going to want for a while. It will be a business decision having nothing to do with the merits of the design- will it sell enough to make a profit?- if not then it will be up to the aftermarket people to supply the changed parts.

What Richard said, but I'll add:

First, this. I'm not a fan of the JJPrise. I'm not a fan of the movies at all, altho I actually like that cast and would like to see them in...well, enough. I respect those that do enjoy the movies and who enjoy this version of the Enterprise. So there's my bias up front.

I haven't really tracked the JJPrise kit. AFAIK it was not actually released by Revell USA but only existed as a 'graymarket' import from Germany, same as the two TOS kits. Yes? No? If yes, then importing likely made it an unreasonably expensive kit which of course is a barrier to mass acceptance.

So, if that's correct, the key factor has to be how well do the new movies do in Europe? If they're doing boffo Box Office, Revell Germany will crank those things out.

Was there a re-release, possibly a re-boxing, of the kit for the second movie? That would likely be a guide for what happens for this new movie. I think the fact that there seemingly hasn't been a word spoken about either a re-pop or a new kit reflecting any changes in the design (they do love to screw around with those movies, don't they? :) Sorry, sorry..) does not speak to a positive outcome for those hoping for these things.

I mean, there's been all the international hobby shows in Japan and Germany by now. If anything was going to happen it should have been announced. It's really crazy that a company with a license tie-in to a major Hollywood franchise would not announce product, right?
 

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My (not incredibly informed) impression is the original JJprise kit wasn't a tremendous seller. There was no repackaging for Into Darkness or for Beyond but the kit is being packaged together with Revell's TOS Enterprise as a 50th anniversary item. Movie-related kits are a huge gamble because the movie is usually out and gone; Interstellar happened because Moebius had a good relationship with Chris Nolan's production company due to their Batman kits--they wanted an Interstellar model out and made it easy for Moebius to do that. Batman is a continuing movie brand so Batman movie kits aren't such a gamble. It's more challenging dealing with Paramount/CBS. TV is potentially a better platform but even there it's rare to get a line of kits--look at Enterprise, where they did the huge NX-01 but basically no other subjects. On the other hand, if you have an older brand that's been around for a long time and a subject like the Proteus and Space: 1999 Eagle where you know there's a demand, it's less of a gamble.
 

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Interstellar happened because Moebius had a good relationship with Chris Nolan's production company due to their Batman kits--they wanted an Interstellar model out and made it easy for Moebius to do that.
Which begs the question why CBS and Round 2 can't do something like that? It's things like this that convince me that the motivation behind whether a kit gets made or not is solely a matter of personal ambition. If someone wants a kit made, and they have enough clout (and clout = power), then things happen. I suspect it's not that different from the movie business itself. I've seen great screenplays languish in development hell for years, with studios passing on projects because of 'sound business reasons' (i.e. whatever BS excuse they want to use to NOT make something) until, boom, George Clooney or Will Smith decide they're "interested" and suddenly everyone wants to make that movie. For whatever reason, CBS can't get its act together with Round 2 or Revell to make things happen. Meanwhile, Bandai is pumping out new Star Wars kits every month...
 

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Which begs the question why CBS and Round 2 can't do something like that? It's things like this that convince me that the motivation behind whether a kit gets made or not is solely a matter of personal ambition. If someone wants a kit made, and they have enough clout (and clout = power), then things happen. I suspect it's not that different from the movie business itself. I've seen great screenplays languish in development hell for years, with studios passing on projects because of 'sound business reasons' (i.e. whatever BS excuse they want to use to NOT make something) until, boom, George Clooney or Will Smith decide they're "interested" and suddenly everyone wants to make that movie. For whatever reason, CBS can't get its act together with Round 2 or Revell to make things happen. Meanwhile, Bandai is pumping out new Star Wars kits every month...
Because nobody at CBS/Paramount/Viacom gives enough fraks to do that. And while Jamie may indeed give enough frak, the company just doesn't have the resources and sales performance history to be more than a tiny momentary blip on the radar.

NOBODY at the CBS corporate level is going to stick their necks out for model kits. It's hard enough to get toys made.

See also all the nonsense that is the now-dead 'Star Trek The Lost Photographs' book. Solicited to street way back August 2015, delayed and delayed and delayed, supposed to street June 7, 2016 and nothing. NOT A THING. Not a word, not a comment, zero communication. Nobody to ask, nothing.

Bandai and Star Wars is a completely different animal. Disney knows how important merchandising is (even if they make some grand bonehead mistakes) and more importantly, Bandai is a BIG company in Japan, with significant resources and solid sales. In addition, the brand manager assigned to handle the product line is an avowed SF fanboy. I mean serious otaku. (altho Japanese business culture requires him to keep that side masked and buried, it leaks out in his interviews with the model building community :) ) He's listening to the fans (in Japan of course) and getting things done.

The SW kits didn't HAVE to have Death Star 'tiles' as bases. A generic, plain base would have done the job and save tooling costs. And they SURELY didn't need to make a dang Turbo Laser Tower as an accessory for the A-Wing (and I believe the TIE Interceptor will have it as well), but the brand manager pushed for it because he thought it would be cool. There seems to be resistance at the higher ups to releasing those bases as separate items but the manager knows full well the fans clamor for them.

But, as discussed, Bandai can do all these things because plastic kit building is still alive and well in Japan, with hundreds if not thousands of local hobby shops, in practically every neighborhood. Even if it's only a shelf at a convenience store, that retailer support is there, feeding customer demand.

We, sadly, just don't HAVE that top to bottom infrastructure anymore. If there's No Big Money, CBS DOESN'T care. (see what I did there? :) )
 

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Could you imagine if Bandai had a Star Trek license again? The kits they made in 2003 were freakin awesome, especially Voyager. With today's technology, there's no telling how freakin sweet they would be.

That said, the models Round2 have done are cool. I just wish they had the resources like Bandai to pump out ship after ship.
 

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NOBODY at the CBS corporate level is going to stick their necks out for model kits. It's hard enough to get toys made.
True, but how do we explain Round 2's Eagle kit? Clearly, there wasn't a parent company pimping a sequel or a new video release or anything. There was no corporate license holder doing... anything, really. Jamie just nagged his bosses and convinced them to do it. The Eagle repops sold well enough, we're told, that it convinced the money people it wouldn't be a disaster, but do the existing Trek kits sell worse than the Eagle repops? Again, I keep going back to the simple formula that things get made because people in positions of power WANT them to get made. In the case of Star Trek, specifically the Kelvin Timeline (TM) ships, I really doubt it's a matter of "would we make money?" or "would we lose our shirts?" I just seems like, for whatever reason, there's no passion on either end to DO anything. So they don't.
 

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True, but how do we explain Round 2's Eagle kit? Clearly, there wasn't a parent company pimping a sequel or a new video release or anything. There was no corporate license holder doing... anything, really. Jamie just nagged his bosses and convinced them to do it. The Eagle repops sold well enough, we're told, that it convinced the money people it wouldn't be a disaster, but do the existing Trek kits sell worse than the Eagle repops? Again, I keep going back to the simple formula that things get made because people in positions of power WANT them to get made. In the case of Star Trek, specifically the Kelvin Timeline (TM) ships, I really doubt it's a matter of "would we make money?" or "would we lose our shirts?" I just seems like, for whatever reason, there's no passion on either end to DO anything. So they don't.
I agree in concept, I think I've said this before. It IS completely a case of having the will to do a thing.

I believe the 22" Eagle kit is an aberration. I have no proof and I'm sure Jamie would never EVER say I was right, but it really seems to me the main reason it got produced was the modular nature of the original concept, where so many parts could be made from duplicated tooling, thus greatly reducing the upfront cost and increasing the return on investment. I would guess the overall tooling costs were at least half of any other comparable kit.

Mind, I still lobby for a new-tool 12 inch Eagle. :)

but yes, there's no passion. Not for Star Trek. Not what it could be. The new smooth saucer for the 1/350 kit is welcome and desirable, but should have been done years ago. I'd lobby hard for stupid things like a total re-creation of the AMT Enterprise first release version. Not just a reboxing of the current sad multi-altered tooling but honest-to-gosh new tooling of the very first release kit. MAYBE even with some touch-ups like removing the dents on the undersaucer. Maybe. I suppose one could argue for a completely new tool Enterprise in 'AMT scale' using all the new data from the Grand Restoration, I could get behind that.

But if I did THAT? I'd include parts not only for all three versions (pilots 1, 2 and production), I'd also include parts to duplicate the actual filming model, including faux intercooler detail on the inside starboard nacelle, the missing sensor ring support, fake plugs for the lights, ALL that crap. Because I'm insane! :)

See, it takes passion and imagination and sadly, not something encouraged regarding the Star Trek license, on either end.
 

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My personal impression is that the Eagle is a design that has a general appeal to SF modelers and the market potential goes wide beyond the handful of modeling fans of the original franchise, while *just another Enterprise* would only be appreciated by hardcore enthusiasts.
 

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Just my opinion here-
Enterprises sell well, that is the reason that subject is offered in so many different scales currently in production.
The NuE is simply ugly- the design is unbalanced. It looks much better on the screen than in your hand. It comes from a film series which slapped beloved canon in the face. The films are fun to watch, but I for one have to turn off my head to enjoy the ride.
The NuE will not sell as well as other Enterprises because most builders are fans of the prime canon. The new films attracted people who never watched much of the older shows/movies and only a small percentage are modelers.
I do hope a NuE refit is offered for completeness, it will be a business decision depending on the numbers.
 

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It would be nice if Revell would test the theory that the JJprise won't sell in America by, ya know, actually trying to sell it in America. I mean, we all have our theories about why a ship from one obscure sci-fi series has more sales potential than another ship from an obscure sci-fi series, but here's a case where a model actually exists. There are no prohibitive new tooling costs. They just have to ship it to American stores or make it available (without the inflated overseas costs) through American online retailers. So I'm really REALLY puzzled why they just don't even try. Again, even if there are people who (justifiably) think the design is unbalanced and have problems with the Kelvin Timeline (TM) movies, would the JJprise really sell worse than the LIS Derelict? The Interstellar thing?
 

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It would be nice if Revell would test the theory that the JJprise won't sell in America by, ya know, actually trying to sell it in America. I mean, we all have our theories about why a ship from one obscure sci-fi series has more sales potential than another ship from an obscure sci-fi series, but here's a case where a model actually exists. There are no prohibitive new tooling costs. They just have to ship it to American stores or make it available (without the inflated overseas costs) through American online retailers. So I'm really REALLY puzzled why they just don't even try. Again, even if there are people who (justifiably) think the design is unbalanced and have problems with the Kelvin Timeline (TM) movies, would the JJprise really sell worse than the LIS Derelict? The Interstellar thing?
I assume it's a licensing issue. I note that R2 hasn't whipped out all those Star Wars kits that MPC made in the '70s to cash in on both nostalgia and the new SW boom. Of course those kits are rather sad compared to the Bandai kits, and I shudder to imagine the MPC Falcon boasting, BOASTING new tool'd parts to make it look like the version in 'The Force Awakens', but luckily that didn't happen.

What COULD have happened is what Tamiya and Revell themselves have done-licensed R2 to release the JJPrise kit in America.

Both Tamiya and Revell have licensed kits produced by other makers (usually Italiari) for release under their label. Seems a win/win. Revell gets their kit wider exposure, R2 gets product without going thru the expense of development.

But again, something like that takes will and imagination to accomplish.

(note that it would also lay groundwork to 'unify' Star Trek models under one label as Revell could license their Voyager kits as well. Hah, so clearly how insane I've become.)
 

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I shudder to imagine the MPC Falcon boasting, BOASTING new tool'd parts to make it look like the version in 'The Force Awakens', but luckily that didn't happen.
Gawd. But the scary thing is that this is not hard to imagine at all had MPC (or whoever owns those molds) retained the Star Wars license. THAT's what we would've gotten, guaranteed. Because it's easy and cheap and for some reason American makers have a "Those fans will buy anything" mentality. That's what I don't get. In the case of TFA, two companies were given the Star Wars license: Revell and Bandai. Both are foreign owned companies and both produce their kits overseas. Logistically, either one can supply the U.S. market, but it's Revell's inferior kits that were stocked at Targets and Walmarts and HobbyLobbys when the film opened, not Bandai. Is Bandai just not interested in selling to U.S. consumers except as imports or is Revell just THAT good at gobbling up the market? How hard is it to print Bandai boxes and instructions in English and ship them to the U.S.???

When it comes to the JJprise, they have a fairly decent kit (accurate proportions, good details, good size) but they just can't put it in U.S. consumers' hands because... what, an agreement that Revell will only sell the kit overseas? Why MAKE that agreement in the first place when Star Trek's primary audience is in the U.S.?!?!
 

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Well, Revell USA has just announced their final list of kits for 4th Quarter 2016 and there is no mention of an Enterprise. Revell Germany announced their 2016-2017 schedule some months back.
 
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