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Discussion Starter #1
I can't be the only person who feels this way. I'm getting sick of hearing grown men whine about people not following every ROAR rule at local track and club races. I was at a race with my bone stock E-Revo, and entered in the truggy class, and came in 3rd of 6. But people had to complain that it wasn't a truggy but a monster truck. Well had there been an MT class, I would've entered and probably won, and everyone with an E-Maxx or E-Savage would've said it's more of a truggy. IT'S A HOBBY PEOPLE! First place took home a $10 gift certificate, not a $10,000 check! I understand the position at big races, but not at the club level. My same argument applies to SC classes. Is there really a need to have separate classes for Slash's and all other SCs (i.e. SC10s, Strikes, Blitz's...)? If they're stock, what does it matter? Someone with a Slash will whine that the Blitz is a better truck. THEN YOU SHOULD HAVE BOUGHT A BLITZ! (Or strike or sc10...not saying Slashs aren't good, just making a point.) For Christ's sake, I don't tell people that they can't race their XXX4, SBV2, ZX-5, or D4 against my B44. Or a XXXT or E-Firestorm against a T4. But everybody gets their panties in a bunch over SC. I am also getting tired of seeing seasoned racers getting pissed at novice newcomers for getting in their way on the track. This is supposed to be fun. The more the merrier, so don't drive newcomers away. They're the future of the hobby. YES HOBBY, NOT SPORT! It has been several months since I personally last raced, due to my growing family, a new house, and work. But I still enjoy playing when I can. And honestly, I don't know if I'll really ever get back into racing unless people settle down, start having fun, and stop thinking they're Brian Kinwald. I spend good money in this hobby, as all of you do, and I want to get my money's worth. I'd rather spend $5 to practice all day for 8 hours and run 10 battery packs and all the cars I want than pay $10-15 (per class), and run 3 5-minute heats and a main, providing my car doesn't break and I miss a race or two. And then there are the local "Pros" who think they shouldn't have to marshall because they have to race another class soon, or have to set up their cars, or whatever other excuse they may have. I miss the days when a bunch of friends could get together and all play with whatever they had, and nobody said it was unfair, or it didn't follow ROAR rules. Anyway, I'm done, and that felt good to get out! Please let me know what you think. And for God's sake, go have fun!
 

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alot of the points you make are valid.I dont know your local race scene, but here common courtesey goes along way.But it sounds as if you are racing at places with very competitive crowds.I race along side sponsored drivers quite often.To those guys this IS serious business, with an emphysis on business.Some guys are a little over the top on following every rule to the T, but I think that's because we have all seen rules go out the window also. On the SC stuff, It's not as bad as what it once was.A few months back trying to enter a sc other than a slash in a "stock" class was bound to get someone going.

as for those good old days of running with your buddies, there still here. I do it about 2 weekends a month,Just everybody comes over and runs what ever they want, buggies,trucks,4wd, sc's, whatever.
BUT, when I go racing, I am there to compete. To push myself to run with the fast sponsored guys.
 

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Meh, I give your rant 6/10. Needs more colorful name calling and paragraph spacing so we don't have epileptic siezures.

As long as a racer marshals after his run, as per the rules, if he wants to chill out the rest of the day thats fine. I'm growing tired of marshalling 3 times longer than my track time. If a driver has to back to back runs then as long as he marshals after his second class and volunteers to marshal another race no harm no foul. And if a racer is in every class, he can't marshal cause he's racing, and thats ok, when you donate enough entry fees to cover every class, thats a fair trade.

I've never heard a truggy driver complain about a Revo on the track. Your truggy drivers must be idiots, the Revo is hardly competition for one of those machines. Or maybe it was embarrasing for them to have a Revo keep up with them. It always cracks me up watching them crash hard in practice trying to keep up with a little stock slash.

Track rules are track rules. We're going to buy more than one motor as we race. so getting one that meets class rules for a track we want to run isn't really a big deal. Don't like racers moaning because they had to spend a little to fit in. I hate rules desighned to acomadate everyone, because they rarely make for good racing. There has to be a line drawn in the sand of what an acceptable car for each class should be close to.

I'm perfectly happy with a stock only SCT class and a Mod class limited to SCT style trucks (Slash, SC10, Blitz) SCT wheels/ Tires, and modified SCT bodies.

SCT/Corr/ Slash needs rules to survive. Otherwise it'll evolve into stadium trucks (RC10T4, XXXT) again. Yes again, we've been here before. We used to race Tamiya King cabs etc. Cars still had bumpers and were fun to drive. Then racing evolved into the crappy 1/10th scale stadium trucks we have today.



We don't want that to happen again. Touring cars started out as scale onroad entry level rides. The strict rules that everyone hated got melted down into something more amiable. Now we have the RC touring jelly bean class. I don't like it when a good entry level class with scale looks evolves into jelly beans.

Seriously, instead of warping spec/scale classes into full blown race machines its better to just move up to a class that allready deos that.

Monster truck class is just a PC name for "leftovers that don't fit real race classes". Noone should get upset in that class, as it's not a real racing class. It's just some track time so rookies can get their feet wet before running truggy.

Keep in mind, the buggy and truggy racers were hopeing for some more buggy racers to show up for better competition. We're bummed when a REvo pops out of the trunk.

It would also be nice if track rules were set in stone at the beginning of the season when we build our cars to best take advantage of the rules, and keep those rules for the whole season. No random changes.

Racing by its nature, isn't perfectly fair.
 

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You seem to really push the point that anything involving R/C is not a sport. In regards to the racing aspect of it, that's exactly what it is. Here's the definition...

1. Physical activity that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often engaged in competitively.
2. A particular form of this activity.

An activity involving physical exertion and skill that is governed by a set of rules or customs and often undertaken competitively. An active pastime; recreation.
 

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the angry drivers you talk about just this weekend caused my 9 year to leave the races early and go home with mom there was no novice class that day not enough showed, so he rsn in the regular class "sc" and caused on of the leaders to crash and got a ear full didnt set well with him like he said lay off the newbies there just learning and are our future
 

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Discussion Starter #6
All valid points guys. I do understand about the sponsored drivers, that this is their business. But like I said, I don't argue the fact that big races should have rules, or any races for that matter. I would just like to see the club level lighten up a bit. Scramblerman, I am sorry to hear that your son didn't have a good time. Just don't let him get discouraged because some people are idiots. You spent the money for him to be there just like everyone else, so enjoy it! As far as SCT stock classes, I don't argue that they should be just that, but why can't a stock SC10 and Blitz compete with a Slash? I'm not asking to run a XXXt or T4. There's a class for that, and they need to be kept separate. But lighten up on the SLASH ONLY mentality. Keep your responses coming guys!
 

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the sc class started off just being a fun smash and crash kind of class for everyone to "play" in kind of class, they are very durable and fun to run... its turning into a class that it shouldnt be, "competitive" i have a 10 yr old that runs a slash in novice and loves it cause he can run it and not worry about being yelled at and break others.. hes getting better at running it and is about ready to move up into the stock class and get out of novice but when there isnt a novice class he tries to run with the stock guys and gets in the way sometimes, up here we run them all together, strike, blitz, sc10 and the slash
 

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Nobody should be angry or yelling anything. Especially in the Slash class. Need to bitch slap someone. its called the demolishin' derby class for a reason.

Ok, " thats the leader your hacking" or "thanks, I like being on the loseing end of the pit manuever", are exceptable trash talk on the Stands.

But yelling at a kid is way, way too far.
 

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the angry drivers you talk about just this weekend caused my 9 year to leave the races early and go home with mom there was no novice class that day not enough showed, so he rsn in the regular class "sc" and caused on of the leaders to crash and got a ear full didnt set well with him like he said lay off the newbies there just learning and are our future
That's why there should ALWAYS be a novice class.There shouldnt need to be a certain number of entries for novice to run.If theres 1 novice entry, then so be it, Run it. I went through this exact scenerio with my now 13yr. old. He started going racing with me when he was 7. At the time we only ran the MARS series due to schedules. At the time entries were very inconsistant so sometimes there would only be 1 heat of stock buggy on a race day.A few bumps and rubs and some banter on the driver's stand and at 7 he was ready to call it quits. We had a long talk. I told him that running with faster/ better drivers would make him a better driver.And that he shouldnt give up so easy.I explained to him that he needed to start watching for lap traffic, and to pay attention to who was in the front so when they came up on him to let them by. By the way, a good race director CAN help this situation by keeping tabs on the 'dodge car' and letting them know when the leaders are coming up on them.And really, if the race director decides there's not enough entries to run a novice class, then he/she should be considerate enough to his/her other paying customers to keep track of the novice driver, especially during the main, and help that driver stay out of the leaders' way. It basically equates to the RD wanting to run a "good" show instead of focusing on running a "fast" show. Regardless, if the fast guys in your situation wanted to complain to someone, it should have been the RD and not the already intimidated little kid that got shoved in a class that he was not ready for. Sorry to be long winded, but this kinda gets my goat having been in the situation myself.I also want to add that the "fast guys" in question could have helped the situation by anouncing to the little man while racing that they are coming up on him , so he needs to take a wide line in the next corner or something.My Kid and I do this back and forth when we run the same classes together.It causes both of us to run much cleaner when we run together.
 

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All valid points guys. I do understand about the sponsored drivers, that this is their business. But like I said, I don't argue the fact that big races should have rules, or any races for that matter. I would just like to see the club level lighten up a bit. Scramblerman, I am sorry to hear that your son didn't have a good time. Just don't let him get discouraged because some people are idiots. You spent the money for him to be there just like everyone else, so enjoy it! As far as SCT stock classes, I don't argue that they should be just that, but why can't a stock SC10 and Blitz compete with a Slash? I'm not asking to run a XXXt or T4. There's a class for that, and they need to be kept separate. But lighten up on the SLASH ONLY mentality. Keep your responses coming guys!
Steel, I dont know how long you have been doing this, but there is a fine line between too many rules, and not enough rules when it comes to organized racing. Too many, and your newbs are intimidated, and scared away,too few rules and your top drivers shy away because it becomes a 'hack fest'. What it comes down to is your lower - mid level drivers are just looking to run and get some track time, while your more experienced mid level and up drivers are looking for some competition.Catering to both types of crowds can be a trick.

Alot of the purpose of some of these dredded rules is to keep costs lower for all of us.If you know that your local SC class, for example, runs box stock,27t, or 17.5 for motor in that class everyone should be on the same page and run one of the listed motors for that class.At that point what do you do if someone shows up and wants to run a 10.5??Personally I would tell him to find an approved motor to borrow for the day, or he cant run the class. It may sound very unfair to that one person, but it's even more unfair to the rest of the guys running the class who all have made sure their rig is set-up to run that class.But if you let the one guy run a 10.5 and he does fairly well, by the end of the race day you will end up with 5 more guys with 10.5's in their trucks.And the next race day you have cut your feild in half because half are running 10.5's, and half are running by the original rules set forth for the class. Or you end up with less experienced guys thinking that if they want to run that class they need to buy a 10.5 like the fast guys.

Bottom line is bashing/running for fun is a blast.I can do that at home , or on a practice day for a reduced cost, or free.But for racing, and I mean racing, NOT running toy cars, I want to have a well defined set of rules to run by so I can have my gear set-up according to the rules.Especially after driving 2 hours to go race somewhere I dont want any surprises like" oh, I know our webpage said we ran 13.5 in this class, but we switched to 10.5's." In a situation like that, my gear gets put back in the car and I drive home probally never to return to that track. Babyish?? no. I just drove 2 hours and dropped 30.00 in gas to go run somewhere where rules were posted , but not being followed.To not keep your clientel updated to changes is unacceptable when alot of the time people are coming a pretty good distance from their home to come and frequent your establishment.
 

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DeJa Vu!

I once remember reading a thread about this hobby becoming way too serious and way too competative. It was met with a lot of anger and defense. Of course, all the replies came from those that were too serious and too competative and JUST DIDN'T GET IT! Sadly, it never grew to be an intellegent discussion, as it has here. You see, sparking a debate with a group of delusional peolple ( wanna be factory team drivers) who honestly believed...and said..."are you even fast?" "can you even drive?" "have you ever won a race?". Now, I made a bold claim.. JUST DON'T GET IT! After the previous comments, need I really say more?

Novice class seems to be a thing of the past. Why? Have we as racers grown more concerned with how fast we can be and who we can beat as opposed to helping and promoting the growth of the hobby to the newbie who went and spent his/her hard earned cash to be a part of this incredible and rewarding hobby? Yes, we have. As someone involved in this hobby well over 15 years, I can honestly say I myself have turned away from racing and would rather spend a day running on a track without the competttion. I haven't lost sight of what the hobby is supposed to be. FUN!

Without a novice class, and a bunch of delusional racers screaming and ranting at a newbie, you aren't promoting growth and go against everything this hobby is known for... friendly, helpful people. Oh and FUN! If these "factory worthy" drivers want to ease the frustration, ask for a novice class, promote one! And if the "factory worthy" drivers were really that good, why the frustration on passing? Shouldn't it be easy? Afterall your'e coming across as THAT GOOD. Just me? I yet t see any of the too serious drivers in my area in any R/C magazine. ???

As far as anyone getting discouraged and thinking on giving up, I'm sorry you even had that experience. You SHOULDN'T have. While winning is nice. Remember, they are toys and it's truly about meeting new people, new friends, and sharing a passion. It's a hobby, not a job.
 

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i agree especialy the passing part when was the last time you saw a nascar racer move out of the groove to let someone pass it aint gonna happen you pass when the opportunity shows up and not by bumping them into the tubes
 

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As a track owner, I can relate to many of the things everybody has expressed. We are a dad/son operation, it is just the two of us running things. We don't have the big bucks and have tried to do what we can with what we have. We have always had a very good relationship with those that take the view that this is supposed to be fun. We have had a bit of a rocky relationship with those that take things a bit too seriously. We have had the yelling at other drivers after the race, the yelling at marshals during the race, the "I don't want those kids marshaling my race", you name it.

Fortunately, those individuals have for various reasons chosen not to race at our facility any longer. We don't have the numbers we did last winter, but boy are we having fun!!!! At this point I don't care if I lose someone's business. If they can't handle themselves in an appropriate manner, then they are not welcome in our facility.

If you ever find yourself in the Grand Rapids area and want to experience a very laid back, find a place for everyone to run, leave with a darn near permanent smile on your face track, please pay us a visit.
 

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An appropriate manner Wow you make me laugh I have seen you yell at little kids to get out of my way scream out I am the leader. Oh throw TV remotes because your mad . The only thing I get when I am at your track is headache from all you’re yelling on the mic. Now if want to have a smile on your face go TO Proving Ground Race Way (http://www.teamvirusracing.com/)
I have learned it doesn't do any good to deny accusations or give explainations, people are going to believe the worst anyway. No one including yourself is perfect. I am human and have made mistakes. I have apologized when necessary and possible, but that is never good enough for some people. They want to hold a grudge and have an axe to grind. As I said, we have had a bit of a rocky relationship with some and you appear to be one that we offended. My apologies to you personally for that. On the other hand, if you want to call me on my behavior the "adult" thing to do would be to do it to my face rather than being an internet tough guy hiding behind a tag. I am not sure I even know who you are or when you last raced at our track.

People can change and work on their weaknesses and you won't find me as frustrated or serious anymore. Helps that there is far less stress because we are focused on a different crowd without all the politics and backstabbing. We are done trying to please those that things are never good enough for. We are rebuilding with a different attitude and the people that are still with us appreciate it and are having fun as am I again.

Real classy, ragging on one track to try to promote another.

Sorry guys, I will back out of this thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Everyone is making some excellent arguments, and thank you all for not making this a bitch fest, but rather a good conversation. Even though we don't all agree, this has been a great thread so far with a lot of good points from both sides. 420, as to your response, I have been in this hobby and racing for about 12 years or so. I'm not denying that there needs to be rules. Stock means stock. And anything other than stock is modified, and should therefor run in a mod class. If a guy shows up with a 10.5 brushless for a stock race, then sorry, find another motor or find a mod or spec class. Moving on, it really does piss me off when I hear drivers yelling at other drivers or marshals. First off, the marshals are there to help you, they didn't wreck the car, YOU DID! Give them a break. I am a firefighter, and our philosophy on driving to a call is to get there safe, even if it means taking an extra 2 minutes. We didn't cause the fire, we'll get there as soon as we can. A marshal running between other cars and causing another pileup to hurry over to your car isn't doing the race any good, so settle down. If you're THAT GOOD, you shouldn't have wrecked, and a few extra seconds should be easily made up. I was out practicing last night, and a guy was letting his son drive his car and yelling at him for the way he drove at the same time. HE'S A KID! Don't let him drive your car that you have $800 invested in if you're worried about him breaking it. Get him a $200 slash or rustler. And the guy actually wondered why the kid din't want to run any more after that. There goes another potential loss to the hobby. I pay to play with and race my rc cars. I GET paid to go to work. To a fully sponsored driver who attends large races to win big money, yes this can be a job, but to most of us it's not. It's a hobby. And as I've stated, the club level needs to be more about fun than competitiveness. That's why I wouldn't take my 5 year old to big money or trophy race with $50 per class entry fees. That's a competition. But as far as a $10 club race where nothing is won except maybe a few bucks or a gift certificate to the track or hobby shop, I don't see the need to get all worked up about it. Just have a good time.
 

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I totaly understand where your coming from. The main reason I got out of the hobby a couple of years back was from guys just taking this HOBBY too seriously. I sold off all my land-based RC stuff and got into planes. No complaining when I'm flying in my backyard but it got boring fast. I missed the commaderire of being around other who enjoyed the hobby so I came back to land RC's.

I'm in it for fun and will always be in it for that reason alone. The bragging rights of beating your buddy are priceless regardless but I will not ever complain that another guy is bending the rules this way or that to get that extra tenth of a second. If you want to be that competitive go to the "big" tracks and run with the sponsored guys where there is real money at stake.

I love the couple of tracks I run as as most (98% or more) are there for the fun of it and don't throw a fit if you bump them. There are a few that are super competitive but those guys run inthe faster classes and all the more power to them. I like to run inthe more "sport" classes with less stress and not so much of a money game.

There were some guys who were wondering about the rules for classes at one track I run at wanting the track to go by ROAR rules and such. Track crew basically said this is the way it is and if you don't like it run somewhere that runs ROAR rules. Novice class at this track runs everything from stock Slashes to 1/8th scale truggies all together. Electric 2wd class runs every motor from stock 27 turn up to 10.5 brushless and batteries from 3000 nimh to 2 cell lipos. How's that for variety.

I love this hobby and always will you just have to learn to put up with those who try and kill the fun factor of it.;)
 

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setting here reading throw most of the post here. its sounds like ppl take it way to hard. we have a boy there is about 9-10 and runs in classies he should not be in. he has hit my car god know how many times. but i slow my car down just to race with him. winning is fun but its better to have fun then doing what love then doing it just to win all the time.
but when its a club race no one cares at my loacol track. i hit ppl in the mid air and flipped them end over end. and the only thing i got is nice hit or what till we get back around to the big jump again.

now the big races yea they take them a bit over the top. but they have never yelled at any one for hitting them its part of the racing. when you get 3-4 in a group its going to happen.

idk about where everyone else race at. but my local track we quick to help someone fix there car. even if its are parts we are useing on there car.

i run 1/10 elc and im getting in the nitro. but i can go hay you mind if i run your car around there track once or twice, and i have had one person tell me no out of 10 ppl. only b/c the car was not his to start with. thats how i bit the bullit and bot my frist nitro car.

most ppl around here its take them "playing" or using someones car before they will buy one. form the way you all talk its sounds like all the fun has been taken out of running rc's and any scale.
 

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420, as to your response, I have been in this hobby and racing for about 12 years or so. I'm not denying that there needs to be rules. Stock means stock. And anything other than stock is modified, and should therefor run in a mod class.
I was mainly wondering if you were around for the early 90's when RTR's first came out and there was a HUGE influx of newbs.At that time rules went out the window 'for the good of the hobby'.It got pretty ugly at a club level for a while.More of semi-organized bash fests instead of racing.Quite a few long timers I knew took a break until some semblance of order had been re-gained.Keep in mind that this was WAY before 2.4ghz systems.The biggest issue had to be newbs turning on radios in the pits while someone was trying to run a race.Nothing like having your car check itself into the boards at full throttle to thin out your spare parts box.:hat:

Anyway , like i said earlier, fun for some of us is just running, while others find the competition the fun part.
 

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im young but my uncle had a shop with a track and i remeber that happening a lot. i all so remmber ppl bring cars w/ radios form the wal mart cars as well. i remember him getting pritty mad. i know when they ran what he fast the lighting class he had every one that was not racing turn the radios so it would not happen. sorry when your running 40+ on a oval with walls that was not forgiving. you tryed to stay away form them.
 
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