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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I would like to hear some opinions/experience of racing 1/4 scales on Asphalt or Concrete.

Before I start a rumor here, I am not sure I want to keep the Dirt Surface here at Timberline.

My work schedule is just killing me, and to keep up two dirt surfaces has become overwhelming.

The dirt oval is more popular for the 1/10th and 1/8th scales.
But it is not more popular for the 1/4 scales,(which "I" enjoy the most to race)

I plan on traveling with you guys next year to some of the NCS races so I will get some asphalt time with the GN.

And hosting the Dirt National's was one of the funniest things I have ever done in my life.

Will a asphalt/concrete 1/4 scale track be supported in Kansas City area?

If I left the dirt will 1/4 scalers want to give it a try?

It would be a huge investment/commitment to change to a hard surface. I really need some feedback from you guys to get a feel on how to pursue Timberlines future.
Thanks,
And please respond your thoughts.

Dave Smreker
www.timberlineraceway.com
 

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Cost is a big difference as far as asphalt and concrete go asphalt is cheaper if you do your ground/base work right that asphalt track will be smooth for years I have run on a concrete 1/4 midget track a few times to practice on and there was more tire wear than on asphalt
 

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Surface

Dave:
I think you have an excellent track. I'm not fond of dirt racing but after being at your facility I have given thought to giving it one more shot. I do preffer a hard surface. I have raced on asphault and concrete. Mini Indy is a concrete surface and had the advantage of not being sensitive to changes from sunshine or a lack of. It was a fun track to race. West Liberty was a combo where the center part of the turns were concrete with asphault the rest of the track. This made for some interesting setups. Freddies is an all asphault track and one of the smoothest tracks I have run on.
 

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Dave
after we had our talk friday nite, i talked to the guys at our track saturday nite and i cant tell you how excited they were to here about you building a track that close to us. Ever since the Houston track closed and the Little Rock track stoped running, man we miss both of them! we use to travel to both as a club about 2 to 4 times a year each. i am sure we would do the same with your track if you decide to build one. i dont know which costs more concrete or asphalt but dont get talked out of putting down a good base for the track, we did and it is a problem we are paying for now. i hope you decide to do it, we all have our fingers crossed down here!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Will,I was wondering the same as far as the tire wear? I have asked my concrete sub-contractors I use in my real bidness and they suggested the use of sealers we use? But they are shiny slick looking?

Mike/Fred, Since you both have experience here,
If a hard surface is coming to T-Line would my existing track dimensions be ok?
 

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Dave - Dirt is fun to race on for sure, I love it, but it has a lot of drawbacks. (I'm sure you of all people know these)
1). You have to continually water the track and run it in.
2). You have to repair the surface after every hard rain.
3). If it rains your pretty much have to cancel the race, where as banked asphalt dries fast and you won't get rained out.
4). Car maintenance is HUGE on dirt. (especially motors)
If you build a pavement track I feel you would get a good number of cars b/c now racers have the option of a "nascar type" car.
Build it, they will come.
 

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Remember, with concrete you will have expansion joints that may (or not) rise up and down. So, if you ever wanted to run smaller scales it might create a big problem.
 

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Fish most of the problems I have seen since I have raced on both in 10th scale is the concrete dust when the track ages and that sealer for it can make the surface a slick nightmare but the track was usually slick with eather dust or sealer
 

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On the asphalt being cheaper it is back when I did it 4 years ago you could get it paved for about 1200 dollars a truck that is labor and equipment included on a ready surface
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Fish most of the problems I have seen since I have raced on both in 10th scale is the concrete dust when the track ages and that sealer for it can make the surface a slick nightmare but the track was usually slick with eather dust or sealer
Thanks Will,
Seems like this is a no brainer.

Asphalt would be the choice.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
On the asphalt being cheaper it is back when I did it 4 years ago you could get it paved for about 1200 dollars a truck that is labor and equipment included on a ready surface
Will,
Wonder how much sqft2 you get from a truck? The wife Debbie is real interested in that answer!! LOL
I measured it this morning. I have a little over 12,000 sqft2 to do.

Also is 2 inch thick to thin?? What is the thickness of some of the tracks? When I go out for bids I will need to pass that on to the contractors.
 

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Just don't cut corners with asphalt and it will be very nice for years you really need a layer of rock,1.5 to 2 inches of binder and .5 to 1 inch sealer depths varry do to ground prep
 

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You might be able to get a killer rate on mix with the bad economy and lack of work and most people I worked with in asphalt were gear heads and might be interested in haveing a sign up at your track for advertising
 

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Will,I was wondering the same as far as the tire wear? I have asked my concrete sub-contractors I use in my real bidness and they suggested the use of sealers we use? But they are shiny slick looking?

Mike/Fred, Since you both have experience here,
If a hard surface is coming to T-Line would my existing track dimensions be ok?
Dave:
I am sure that it would make a fine hard surface track. I will definately come run there. A race there one weekend prior to Knoxville would make for a fine prelude to going on up to Knoxville. Count me in.:wave:
 

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Will,
Wonder how much sqft2 you get from a truck? The wife Debbie is real interested in that answer!! LOL
I measured it this morning. I have a little over 12,000 sqft2 to do.

Also is 2 inch thick to thin?? What is the thickness of some of the tracks? When I go out for bids I will need to pass that on to the contractors.
If I'm not mistaken I think all a tandem can carry is 15 tons. At 2" (.33) surface you will need 153 tons which would equal about 10 tandem loads.... tandem is not a trailer.

Don't quote me on this for its been a long time since I've bid asphalt! But like Will said base and topping are different.....and the subgrade work will make or break you!

And.... it would be really cool to have another close track to visit....that wasn't dirty!....LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Dave:
I am sure that it would make a fine hard surface track. I will definately come run there. A race there one weekend prior to Knoxville would make for a fine prelude to going on up to Knoxville. Count me in.:wave:
That would be great timing for a race. Then we could convoy 4.5 hours North.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If I'm not mistaken I think all a tandem can carry is 15 tons. At 2" (.33) surface you will need 153 tons which would equal about 10 tandem loads.... tandem is not a trailer.

Don't quote me on this for its been a long time since I've bid asphalt! But like Will said base and topping are different.....and the subgrade work will make or break you!

And.... it would be really cool to have another close track to visit....that wasn't dirty!....LOL
Yup that's about what I calculated up also. Maybe someone or (Freddie) can share if that 2" is sufficient?

As far as a base,living here in Eastern Kansas is a great benefit for Lime/AB3 Gravel. And a power plant being only 20 miles away, pot ash is free!

Me being such a patient person (LOL NOT) I have called 3 Asphalt Contractors to meet them later this week for proposals. LOL.

Thanks all for the fast feedback. Keep it coming if there is some ideas to share. Esspecially from the few who have raced here to give ideas for improvement to run the larger scaled cars.
Dave
 
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