Hobbyist Forums banner

1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I have been around the collector toy car hobby for most of my adult life and have collected many scales of both plastic and diecast. Until recently I'd pick up an occasional 1/64th to display with my other scales and thought I had a handle on who makes what etc..

Browsing Ebay recently, I noticed that at least 20 - 23 of the cars made by M2 have also been made by Ertl American Muscle - Racing Champions. Additionally, when I did an Ebay search for 1/64th American Muscle, there were many Greenlight and M2 cars listed therein. And so, with this coincidence, could it be that M2 and Ertl American Muscle - Racing Champions tooling could be one in the same ? If not, then it seems odd that 2 different companies would choose to produce so many of the identical subject matter ???

Thanks for any help or input !

Rich
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
4,640 Posts
They are definitely not the same company, and american muscle is pretty much a catch all phrase, or has become one in diecast.
 

·
FnF: Fords n Ferraris
Joined
·
7,829 Posts
Some cars are popular they will be done by everyone. M2 has quite a few never done by others. I love Ertl castings but they could never be confused with a M2 if you had the two cars in your hands
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I probably should have...

compared them more to the Greenlight which also does some very nice 1/64th scale cars. Don't know why I think of M2 and Greenlight as sister companies but the first thing to go is the mind so I've been told...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,478 Posts
If I could see the look on Seans face right now about Greenlight being a sister Company to M2 .... It would be a priceless reaction :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,324 Posts
Though not related, Greenlight and M2 are both independents of comparable output more or less. On the subject of the castings, Greenlight has been known to use the castings of other manufacturers. For their less expensive Auto World line especially, but also for their main product line, such as their Dodge van.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,260 Posts
The one thing I have noticed, or at least wondered about, when first getting introduced to the diecast world was how many companies make the same products. Good example M2, Greenlight, Hot Wheels, JL, etc., all make 56 Ford Pickups, not 57, not 55, not 60, they all do the same year - 56. And this seems to be true for many other particular years and models. 57 Chevies and Muscle Cars are, of course, understandable, but how come, for example, I can find a 67 Plymouth Fury (4-door sedan) (JL, HW, etc) but no one seems to make a 68 with, again, perhaps a few exceptions (One company has just come out with a 68 Fury 2 door hardtop in 1:43)? I have seriously wondered if perhaps it has something to do with the way the auto companies do the licensing of their products?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
436 Posts
Hey Fellas,

We develop all of our own tooling. I never like to say "never", but I can't image a scenario in that we would use another companies tooling. We like to test the boundaries of 1/64 tooling. We do a lot of extra's that other companies don't do. Besides, look at the details we are able to pull out of the castings now, some of them just blow my mind. I look back at the old Muscle Machines castings that we did. At the time they where awesome. Now you put one of our Ground Pounders next to them and wow, what a difference.

As far as everyone making identical cars goes, no the licensing is not set up in a way to only promote certain cars. Tooling is very expensive so making something that is not a proven winner or home run type of car is a bit scary. 1957 Chevys, 1969 Camaros, and Mustangs always sell. There's a big market for them. I love working on castings that have never been done, but we are a business first and foremost and need to make sales. Our basic philosophy at M2 is to balance new never before done castings with old reliables with more details and models. One more thing, if the economy was in better shape I could see us taking more chances on more obscure castings.

Thanks, Sean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,681 Posts
...Our basic philosophy at M2 is to balance new never before done castings with old reliables with more details and models.
Thanks, Sean

And you have done that very well: the '59 Apache pickup comes to mind, the Studebaker trucks, the Ford, Chevy and Dodge tractors, the awesome '54 Bel Airs, the Olds 88 fastback, the Sun Valleys and Coronets, the DeSotos, etc. etc. are all super castings that mesh with the Mustangs, '69 Camaros, '57 Bel Airs, the 'Cudas and more common castings.

Thank you, Sean, for all the "uncommon" castings that you guys at M2 produce...



:wave:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,693 Posts
Based on your information, Sean, don't you think a '51 Ford pickup (with the sharktooth grille) would be a hot seller?
I can imagine you get bombarded with al kinds of great and not-so-great casting suggestions. We do have to remember that you are a business first and foremost - but we don't have to like it! :D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,324 Posts
Question Sean - if it's not divulging too much information, what is the first average amount that comes to your mind as far as investment in a new casting before you ever sell a single one? I imagine the initial development expenses are similar for the competition.

Other than that, thank you and everyone else at M2 for pushing the limits of affordable die cast! It is noticed and much appreciated. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
611 Posts
i can't believe i'm about to say this, since it would cost me a small fortune if sean listens, but it's high time m2 did a superbird.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,535 Posts
some companies use others tooling they bought but some like m2 use and develop their own. now one thing i would like to see is the different 55 chevy variations, like the post cars(unless they already have em) but yeah ill stick to m2 for detail for the most part. greenlights are cool but for the cost they could have opening doors. one thing that does bug me slightly about m2's is the exposed rivits where the doors attatch to the hinge..they could hide it all with a injected molded door panel. id gladly pay a little more for actual door panels. anyways keep up the good work m2.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,324 Posts
they could hide it all with a injected molded door panel. id gladly pay a little more for actual door panels.
Oh no no no, save the injection molded plastic for the Drivers. We need as much metal content as we can get. Someone on here suggested a while back, maybe it was Liv N Low, another way M2 could hinge their doors, so that they wouldn't open straight out but instead tuck into the body a bit, that might hide the joints.

For original 1:64 tooling, I've heard the figure of $75,000 before. I don't know how realistic that is though. I figured might as well ask the source.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19,875 Posts
I think a plastic interior door panel isn't such a bad idea at all in a way.
After all, the rest of the interior is plastic anyway, and it's not like a real car has metal door panels, right?
That being said, I'm not really bothered by the rivets.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,046 Posts
If you're going to go to plastic door panels then you gotta put real carpet on the floors; except when rubber mats were used. Cardboard package shelves???
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top