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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello everyone.

Pardon my ignorance, but what are the differences, if there are any, between the Monogram monster repops of the erly 90's(?) and the Polar Lights repops?
I'm talking about Frankenstein, Dracula, Phantom of the Opera and the Creature (were there more?).

Thanks in advance.
 

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They are the same

All (I think) the last ones (except Phantom of the Opera - the last re-pop being a CineModels repop of the original Aurora mould which is now owned by Revell-Monogram) were either re-popped from the original Aurora moulds that Revell-Monogram still owns, or they were reverse engineered (to arrive at a mould that was the same as the Aurora mould that Revell-Monogram no longer has).

So, they are the same as the original Aurora kits.
The moulds just changed owners over the years.

I have a complete set (17 or 18) of MISB Monogram re-pops
of the original Aurora moulds. The newer ones are the same, just in different boxes.

I don't think there are any differences, although someone here will post if there was.

James :)
 

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Just to add a little to that - of the ones mentioned, Monogram did no reverse engineering of their own, and when those were re-released under the Aaurora label, it was done through PL but still came from Monogram. So the only difference was the box and the inclusion of repros of the original instrux. PL has reverse-engineered some of the kits, buut not those that were released earlier by Monogram. :)

If I screwed up some part of that info, someoene will correct it soon enough! :lol:
 

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Sorry, for the other part of your question

When Monogram obtained the original moulds from Aurora they re-popped:

Godzilla in 1978 (Square Box - Glow in the Dark)
Dracula, Frankenstein, Mummy and Wolf Man in 1983 (Square Box - Glow in the Dark)

When Revell obtained Monogram (and hence the moulds) they re-popped:

Dracula in 1991 (Square Box)
Creature, Phantom in 1994 (Square Box)
Dracula, Frankenstein, Mummy, Wolf Man in 1994 (Square Box - Bonus Value Packs (Paint & Brush included))
Dracula, Frankenstein, Mummy, Wolf Man in 1991 (Square Box - Luminators (Blacklight) Series)
King Kong, Phantom in 1992 (Square Box - Luminators (Blacklight) Series

Then a company called CineModels had Revell-Monogram re-pop for them to sell:

Forgotten Prisoner of Castel Mare in 1992 (Long Box - Like the original Aurora one)
Phantom of the Opera in 1994 (Long Box - Like the original Aurora one)

Creature from the Black Lagoon, Dracula, Frankenstein, Mummy, Wolf Man in 1999 (Long Box - Like the the original Aurora one). These last 5 were only distributed by Polar Lights. They did not re-pop them.

James :)
 

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Pl simply had Monogram shoot the Original Aurora molds and bag them & then PL recreated the original Aurora Boxes.However as I understand it, Monogram refuses to do this ever again for PL since the New managemant at Monogram Now considers PL as "The Competition"..
In addition, when Cinemodels had Monogram shoot the Forgotten Prisoner Mold, ALL they did was pull it out of Storage, and shoot it and bag it..it EVEN still has the ORIGINAL aurora logo and the year 1966 on the bottom base!!..
 

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Discussion Starter #6
So let me get this straight. The 1999 long boxes with the Aurora label were only distributed by Polar Lights but popped by Monogram. Yes?
With follow-ups like Kong and the Witch, with the Polar Lights label, are these then reverse engineered kits?
And if Monogram pulled the plug on the re-pop/distribution deal with Polar Lights, how — assuming Monogram still owns the rights to the original molds — is Polar Lights able to reverse engineer these models without breaking copyright laws? Or is reverse engineering a different deal that Monogram would have agreed to?
And while we're at it, what are the differences, if any, between a reverse engineered job and a regular repop?

Thanks.
 

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The kits which Revell-Monogram has run in original Aurora tools and distributed by Polar Lighs are:
Frankenstein
Wolf Man
Dracula
Mummy
Creature from the Black Lagoon
Godzilla
King Kong
Forgotten Prisoner.

These eight kits were all produced in the ORIGINAL Aurora tooling which is owned by Revell-Monogram.
All the other kits produced by Polar Lights have been being produced in new tooling owned by Polar Lights.
Though many of those kits are re-issues of old Aurora subjects they are being produced By Polar Lights in our own tooling. To my knowledge no other tooling for any of these kits exists.

I don't recall ever saying that Revell Monogram had refused to EVER again run anything for Polar Lights. I believe the tone of our discussion has been that Revell doesn't currently feel that they wish to run more product for us.

We continue to have a cordial relationship with the folks at Revell and even though there are no current plans for them to run more product for us there is no reason to believe that we might never find future projects where we might work together.

Dave
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks Dave.
I have all the original monster model line-up (except Dr. J and Mr. H. — hint, hint) but they're in storage waiting to be built. Most of them are Polar Lights kits, but the Crearture and Phantom are Monogram.
After your post, I double checked the labelling and I realize I was wrong about some of the kits that have the Aurora label as opposed to those that have the Polar Lights label.
I think I get it now. Those kits with the Aurora label are from the original molds popped by Monogram and distributed by Polar Lights. Those with the Polar Lights label are new molds (reverse engineered) owned by Polar Lights and, hence, no copyright infringement. If I still haven't got it please let me know.
This all took a turn from the intent of my original question, but thanks for the additional insight.
 

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Dave Metzner said:
The kits which Revell-Monogram has run in original Aurora tools and distributed by Polar Lighs are:
Frankenstein
Wolf Man
Dracula
Mummy
Creature from the Black Lagoon
Godzilla
King Kong
Forgotten Prisoner.

These eight kits were all produced in the ORIGINAL Aurora tooling which is owned by Revell-Monogram.
All the other kits produced by Polar Lights have been being produced in new tooling owned by Polar Lights.
Though many of those kits are re-issues of old Aurora subjects they are being produced By Polar Lights in our own tooling. To my knowledge no other tooling for any of these kits exists.

I don't recall ever saying that Revell Monogram had refused to EVER again run anything for Polar Lights. I believe the tone of our discussion has been that Revell doesn't currently feel that they wish to run more product for us.

We continue to have a cordial relationship with the folks at Revell and even though there are no current plans for them to run more product for us there is no reason to believe that we might never find future projects where we might work together.

Dave

Hi Dave,

I was not quoting YOU, when I said that..I was quoting someone that had told me they had spoken to someone at Monogram some months ago, & whoever it was at Monogram, said that.I guess it could be considered hearsay, but there it is..
 

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Just a nerdy comment from an egghead engineer:

A little bit of good friendly competion is usually better for everyone than cut-throat competition is. Companies that constantly want to destroy their competitors are usually insecure. Monopolies are illegal, so why bother trying to be the only one on the block. You need competitors in order to stay in business.

I hope both PL and RM stay friendly competitors!

Roland
 

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Frankie Boy said:
I think I get it now....Those with the Polar Lights label are new molds (reverse engineered) owned by Polar Lights and, hence, no copyright infringement. If I still haven't got it please let me know.
Not quite.....

The Forgotten Prisoner has a Polar Lights logo. It is also the only one on Dave's list that is available through hobby shops but NOT through Toys 'R' Us.
 

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The creature pit and dungen?

Dave Metzner said:

These eight kits were all produced in the ORIGINAL Aurora tooling which is owned by Revell-Monogram.
All the other kits produced by Polar Lights have been being produced in new tooling owned by Polar Lights.
Though many of those kits are re-issues of old Aurora subjects they are being produced By Polar Lights in our own tooling. To my knowledge no other tooling for any of these kits exists.

I don't recall ever saying that Revell Monogram had refused to EVER again run anything for Polar Lights. I believe the tone of our discussion has been that Revell doesn't currently feel that they wish to run more product for us.

We continue to have a cordial relationship with the folks at Revell and even though there are no current plans for them to run more product for us there is no reason to believe that we might never find future projects where we might work together.

Dave
Dave,
Since the original tool is available for the Creature pit/Dungen, and Dean Miliano did show test shots of it from R/M on his WEB site, where and when could we see it be produced?
I know the current claim is that clear parts would need to be gotten separtately but this would be a neat diorama when assembled.
Did the sales figures for the other kits figure into a decision for this?

Thanks:)
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So why is the Forgotten Prisoner the only oddball, that is, the only original Aurora mold with Polar Lights on the kit box (as opposed to an Aurora label like all the rest given in Dave's list)?

Thanks again.
 

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I know, it is confusing. LOL!

Now, when Monogram obtained the original Aurora moulds they did not obtain the Aurora Logo. That trademaked/copyrighted logo was in the hands of Tomy America, Inc. They, IIRC, bought the logo from Aurora.

Next, Monogram re-popped some of the kits (as per my list above) with their Logo on them. When they were bought by Revell, they (Revell) re-popped some of the kits but also used the Monogram logo. They could not use the Aurora logo as the they did not have the rights to it.

Now, in 1992, CineModels approached Revell-Monogram and had them re-pop the Forgotten Prisoner for them. He (CineModels) also obtained permission from Tomy to use the Aurora logo on the kit box. If you have this kit on the side of the box it has "Aurora Logo Used By Permission From Tomy America, Inc. 1992" The rest of the box is the same as the original Aurora kit except that the "Famous Monsters of Filmland" logo is missing. I do not know who distributed this kit. Maybe CineModels themselves, or Revell-Monogram, or who knows.

Then, sometimes after that, Cinemodels bought the Aurora Logo from Tomy. So it belongs to them now.

Then in 1994, CineModels approached Revell-Monogram and had them re-pop the Phantom of the Opera for them. And CineModels used the Aurora Logo again and also re-produced the long box art. Also, this kit is the first time that CineModels is shown on the box. On one side it has "1994 CineModels Inc". Again, I do not know who distributed this one.

Then in 1999, CineModels approached Revell-Monogram and had them re-pop The Creature, Dracula, Frankenstein, Mummy, and Wolf Man for them. Again, CineModels used "his" Aurora Logo and also re-produced the long box art work. Now these are the kits that a lot of people still think are Polar Lights releases. But they are not. They were only the distributor. On the side of the box it has "CineModels kit distributed by Polar Lights. Polar Lights is a registered trademark of Playing Mantis, South Bend, Indiana. Manufactured for CineModels by Revell-Monogram, Inc. 1999. Aurora is a trademark of CineModels, Inc.". So, Polar Lights only distributed these, they did not have them re-popped.

Now, just last year, I believe, Polar Lights licenced (for 3 years) the Aurora Logo from CineModels. So, any re-pops that Polar Lights did before 2001 only have the Polar Lights logo on them. After they obtained the rights to use the Aurora logo from CineModels they have used it on some kits, but not all of them.

That is really a short version explanation. There may be some funny twists that I am not aware of mixed in somewhere but researching for info is difficult so that is generally what I could muster together myself.

Anyway, as I saud before, it is confusing.

James :)
 

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Again, sorry. So, based on the above, any kit that Polar Lights released in 1997 to 2000 (approximately) will only have the Polar Lights logo on them. In 2001 with the Forgotten Prisoner (I believe) they used the Aurora logo (Which they licensed from CineModels). They also used it on Godzilla, King Kong, Rodan, and Ghidorah.

Now, to further confuse things. In 2000, Polar Lights approached Revell-Monogram and had them re-pop The Creature, Dracula, Frankenstein, and the Wolf Man for them. They obtained permission from CineModels to use the Aurora logo and released these 4 kits in one big box called "Monsters Frightening 4 Pack".

So, CineModels relaesed the 4 individually, and Polar Lights released them in a set.

Are you really confused now? LOL!

Anyway, it is difficult to get exact info. Most companies involved will not give out any more info that what is written on the boxes.

Such is the life of a researcher. LOL!

James :)
 

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JamesDFarrow said:
.... So, based on the above, any kit that Polar Lights released in 1997 to 2000 (approximately) will only have the Polar Lights logo on them. In 2001 with the Forgotten Prisoner (I believe) they used the Aurora logo (Which they licensed from CineModels).....

James :)
Sorry James, but I'm going to have to reiterate:

"The Forgotten Prisoner has a Polar Lights logo. It is also the only one on Dave's list that is available through hobby shops but NOT through Toys 'R' Us."
 
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