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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see we have rotating sponsors instead of just seeing PL.
So I guess RC2 caught on and pulled sponsorship.
I know the Forum will stay but it looks strange not seeing PL banner.
 

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Gee I think the shock of this may cause me to have a heart attack..........naw just kidding we all saw this coming. If RC/Ertl/AMT/PL/JL/QP/DB/MK comes out with anything decent after Captain America and the E-A I'll get it but few cars do much for me.
Exit, stage left even.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
What ever happens, we will be here. I like it here, good people. I have been posting on forums everywhere for less than a month. I lurked here for 6 months before signing up.
I have been out of modeling for years,now I am back and having fun.

So let us just have fun, keep going like there is no tomorrow.
I wish Dave would visit just to let us know what he is up to. Never met him but, while lurking I always felt the joy when he posted.

I got signed up after I met Thomas Sasser. He was surprised that I knew about his work for Polar Lights. I am glad I joined.

Lloyd
 

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When you really think about it...

Yeah, the passing of the PL Forum really punctuates the end of an era.

However, if you look at the evolution of the PL product line, is any purpose served by a Polar Lights Forum?

When I first joined up, PL's product line was about 70% Aurora repops (Bride of Frank, the monster rods, etc.) with the remaining kits being in the Aurora spirit (Jupiter 2). That was the way the company continued to evolve for several years with the famous Guillotine, Prisoner, Michael Myers, Phantom of the Opera, Godzilla, King Kong, Seaview, Spindrift, Batplane and more. It was always that mix of repops and original models of unusual subjects. This made PL a company that was absolutely unlike any other styrene kit company on the face of the earth. They truly were unique. Unique companies deserved a unique forum.

A few years ago, several modelers expressed an ill-advised desire to see PL start doing Trek kits. As I predicted then and I as I say to you now, Star Trek will be the end of Polar Lights. The product line that built Polar Lights is gone and will never return. PL will come to the same end as AMT. The Trek modellers will stock up on kits and then sales will stagnate after pent up demand is satisfied.

So what purpose does a PL board serve. There is alread a BB here that is for "Star Trek and Science Fiction" models. Over at Cults new BB, his sci-fi board specifically says it's there to talk about "...your Star Trek and Star Wars" models. Trekkies either own or have hijacked every sci-fi site on the net.

How many boards does it take for somebody to ask, "What color is the Enterprise?" at least 10 times per week? How many boards does it take for somebody to ask, "How can I light my Enterprise?" at least 10 times per week? How many boards are required for people to complain about Berman and Braga? How many Trek "wish lists" can be posted in a week?

Face it, the PL Forum no longer serves a unique purpose. It's redundant.
 

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Brent Gair said:
When you really think about it...

Yeah, the passing of the PL Forum really punctuates the end of an era.

However, if you look at the evolution of the PL product line, is any purpose served by a Polar Lights Forum?

When I first joined up, PL's product line was about 70% Aurora repops (Bride of Frank, the monster rods, etc.) with the remaining kits being in the Aurora spirit (Jupiter 2). That was the way the company continued to evolve for several years with the famous Guillotine, Prisoner, Michael Myers, Phantom of the Opera, Godzilla, King Kong, Seaview, Spindrift, Batplane and more. It was always that mix of repops and original models of unusual subjects. This made PL a company that was absolutely unlike any other styrene kit company on the face of the earth. They truly were unique. Unique companies deserved a unique forum.

A few years ago, several modelers expressed an ill-advised desire to see PL start doing Trek kits. As I predicted then and I as I say to you now, Star Trek will be the end of Polar Lights. The product line that built Polar Lights is gone and will never return. PL will come to the same end as AMT. The Trek modellers will stock up on kits and then sales will stagnate after pent up demand is satisfied.

So what purpose does a PL board serve. There is alread a BB here that is for "Star Trek and Science Fiction" models. Over at Cults new BB, his sci-fi board specifically says it's there to talk about "...your Star Trek and Star Wars" models. Trekkies either own or have hijacked every sci-fi site on the net.

How many boards does it take for somebody to ask, "What color is the Enterprise?" at least 10 times per week? How many boards does it take for somebody to ask, "How can I light my Enterprise?" at least 10 times per week? How many boards are required for people to complain about Berman and Braga? How many Trek "wish lists" can be posted in a week?

Face it, the PL Forum no longer serves a unique purpose. It's redundant.
I agree completely with your sentiments, but . . .

. . . There are some things I've been wondering about . . .

1. What is the color of the Enterprise?

2. How can I light my Enterprise? I'm talking about the PL Enterprise, not the 18", or the 22".

3. I'm having problems with getting the nacelles to snap on, does anyone have any suggestions?

4. What is that "thingy" on the front of the saucer?

5. Does anyone else think the copyright molded on the lower saucer sets a bad precedence, or could such a horrible thing have been done because Brannon and Braga got Paramount licensing to get even with us complainers?

6. I don't think the decals provided with the kit are 150% accurate, is it possible that someone out there has made better ones, and if so, are they for sale?

7. BTW, What's up with Brannon and Braga? What are they thinking?

;)
 

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According to the description of this forum.....it's still the "Official Playing Mantis supported Polar Lights discussion"......

Should we stage a coup and sponsor it ourselves?

Then we could have endless discussions about Big Frankie, Dr. Jekyll as Mr. Hyde, The Go Cart, monsterluver, Lisa,.....etc........and even off-topic discussions!!!!:p
 

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Ah, but there was at least one good use for this forum (apart from making friends) - I made the suggestion that repops of the old Aurora model stand be included with the Spindrift kit. I know they were not planning to include it, and I'm under the impression they included it based on my suggestion. So now after buying 5 each of the Spindrift and Batplane, I have enough of the best stand ever designed to mount a bunch of my sci fi vehicles.

So I'm happy :).
 

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But Polar Lights could have given us so much more:

  1. Proteus,
  2. Fantastic Voyage Voyager,
  3. Martian War Machine,
  4. Planet of the Apes Icarus,
  5. Earth vs the Flyings Saucers Saucer,
  6. When Worlds Collide Ark,
  7. George Pal Time Machine,
  8. Cavorite Sphere,
  9. Disney Nautilus,
  10. bigger more accurate Seaview etc etc.
Trek shmek. Its resin kits for me.

Huzz
 

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Never lost for words
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I've said it before when the Cult board closed on Hobbytalk, it's like losing a part of your childhood. I really returned to modeling when I discovered Steve's board and this one.

Admittedly, it's never been the same place since Lisa "left" but it'll always be one of the places that I re-learned to love model building.

Jim
 

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What is everyone so doom and gloom about? This forum is still here and so are we! If RC2PL chooses not to participate in support of this forum...so what!
Between here, the Clubhouse and Steve's place....who really cares what RC2PL is doing or not!

Get a grip! It is not the end of modeling.....and there will be others in time...

Until then....let's talk Aurora, lets talk MPC, lets talk Horizon, lets talk Geometrics, lets talk about custom bases...lets talk about PL repop bases too JP! Lets talk about reconditioning our PL kits or getting replacement parts for the PL Captain America to make it look like original Aurora kit and ...need I go on?

MMM
 

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Brent Gair said:
When you really think about it...

Yeah, the passing of the PL Forum really punctuates the end of an era.

However, if you look at the evolution of the PL product line, is any purpose served by a Polar Lights Forum?

When I first joined up, PL's product line was about 70% Aurora repops (Bride of Frank, the monster rods, etc.) with the remaining kits being in the Aurora spirit (Jupiter 2). That was the way the company continued to evolve for several years with the famous Guillotine, Prisoner, Michael Myers, Phantom of the Opera, Godzilla, King Kong, Seaview, Spindrift, Batplane and more. It was always that mix of repops and original models of unusual subjects. This made PL a company that was absolutely unlike any other styrene kit company on the face of the earth. They truly were unique. Unique companies deserved a unique forum.

A few years ago, several modelers expressed an ill-advised desire to see PL start doing Trek kits. As I predicted then and I as I say to you now, Star Trek will be the end of Polar Lights. The product line that built Polar Lights is gone and will never return.
Hmmm...

interesting hypothesis.

But flawed.

Since PL bought the Aurora rights, they could and did repop all they wanted to.

Building Trek kits involved hiring a total of ONE person they contracted with to produce the kit prototypes.

The Trek line in no way stopped PL from producing or repoping other kits if they would have wanted to, as Dave Metzner pointed out more then once they made their subject release decisions based on their own marketing decisions.

I remember Dave Metzner very strongly and roughly responding to more then one of the suggestions that Dave Hussey has made from the list above.

His and PL's decisions not to produce them had nothing to do with Trek, right or wrong they simply didn't believe the stuff would sell!




The 1/1000th TOS E kits kicked and continue to kick but as far as sales. A shipment rarely stays on Target's shelves over a couple of days, according to stockperson that works at the one near where I work.

The production of the D-7 was screwed up at the factory, which had nothing to do with the subject matter. They could just as easily produced an oversize Captain America with a screwed up neck as they could have a D-7!

Because of initial problems with test shots they missed the entire Christmas selling season for the NX-01 as the first cuts of the molds produced parts that weren't up to par and had to be resent before the final cuts were done.

How much did that cost them? We'll never know.

Also, let's not forget that PL put off producing the Refit or TOS E in 1/350th and instead produced the least Enterprise from the least popular Trek series ever! Perhaps thinking making Trek modelers wait for the kits we really want would somehow increase sales later.

They claim that decision, as well as the announcement of the decision of the Scorpion, was theirs alone and had nothing to do with contractual agreements with Paramount.

Maybe that was true, maybe not.

If it was true then their marketing people got too damned cute for their own good.

They thought they were so smart and market savvy that they out-thought themselves!

The lesson: make the kits people want the most first and when you've sold tons of that you'll have the profits to make the lesser desirable stuff.

Don't make the less desirable stuff first.

But again, Dave and the rest didn't fail to do some of the other kits mentioned above or more repops because of Trek. They rightly or wrongly just plain didn't think they would sell!!!

Anyone remember this exchange over that very subject?
One which I myself complained about as over the top and rude towards figure and Aurora fans?

"Dave Hussey
Elder Statesman
Location: St. John's ,Newfoundland , Canada Well then, I'll just consider myself told off!

Dave Metzner
Elder Statesman
Consider me tired of answering this question repeatedly.
No offense intended but this ground has been plowed twice a year for the laste two or three years. I have tried to answer as diplomatically as I could in the past I'm sorry if my diplomacy skills have desrted me!


Dave Hussey
Elder Statesman
Well, you should quickly re-acquire them. I do believe that one of the original rules of this board was to be polite and respectful.
Any time you have contact with your customer, you have a golden opportunity to affect the relationship with him. That relationship sustains the profitablity you spoke of earlier. Its quite disconcerting to get shut down by one of the principals of PL for a harmless comment.
The large number of Polar Lights kits displayed on my shelf, stored in my basement and just purchased a few days ago attest to the good relationship I've enjoyed with you guys to date. Let's keep it that way, shall we?
Huzz


Dave Metzner
Elder Statesman
I am sorry if my comments (now edited) regarding The voyager kit from Fantastic Voyage have offended members of the BB.
To Dave Hussey in particular I'm sorry if you were offended. My response was not intended as an effort to put anybody down , just an explanation of the reasons for not choosing to produce a particular kit.
My choice of words was not among the best I've ever made.
I am pretty much THE guy who tries to make Polar Lights kits happen. I am not a hard core Aurora kit guy, just a model kit guy.
We are trying our best to produce kits that our customers will like, while at the same time trying to grow our business.
We must make choices every time we try to plan for the future, We only have a given budget to spend on developing kits so we have to try to get the most bang for the company's buck. That usually means we have to chose between Star Trek and Voyager from Fantastic Voyage . Or between Doctor Jeckyl and a Batmobile.
Once more I'm sorry that these choices will not make everybody happy but they are a necessary fact of life in this business.
Once more I'm sorry for losing my cool on this one!
Dave


Zathros
Member
I am ONLY gonna say ONE more thing on this: If I recall Correctly, and I believe it IS in Print, The FIRST Idea to produce the VERY first Horror kit by aurora,( Frankenstein) was met with GREAT skepticism, & shot down more than once, before it went into production.. I believe it was a GREAT hit...Just because ANYONE (in the biz or NOT) thinks something won't sell, DOES NOT mean it won't....I am NOT the kind of guy that will Just agree for the sake of agreeing..SORRY Dave, and NO insult intended, but I THINK that the BIG frankie, & the Jekyll & Hyde, & The Voyager would sell WELL..And were the revenue for tooling be available to me, I would certainly PUT MY MONEY WHERE MY MOUTH is....
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Zathros
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Location: NY Ok, I said I wouldnt say anymore, but I Just HAD to get in on this one more time...If I remember correctly, I THINK this WHOLE TERRIFIC company called PL was started from Tom Lowe's desire for a couple of "obscure " and "Poorly sold" in its day Aurora Kits..: The Addams Family Haunted House, and the Mummy's chariot..The Monsters on hotrods are documented as being LOUSY sellers for Aurora, hence thier rarity and the Addams family House was in production for ONLY one catalogue..BUT Somehow PL repopped them and they did well..I am NOT trying to restart the flames here, I am Simply saying what I said before..NO ONE can REALLY tell how well ANY kit will do..BUT to SIMPLY say "No Way" is not ( in my opinion)the way to go, simply because many of PL's Repops SOLD Badly in Aurora's initial Release.case in point again: Wonder Woman..YES Dave, you, again, in my opinion have done a TERRIFIC job and have brought me pleasure BEYOND my WILDEST Dreams with these great Aurora Re-pops as well as PLs OWN kits, But I am not going to Fear disagreeing with you due to your position at Polar Lights, as SOME may have done here..I will ALWAYS support PL and will continue to buy just about Every kit that comes out that I like, BUT again..I DO Not agree with you on the kits I mentioned in my earlier thread: Voyager, Big Frankie, & The Jekyll & Hyde..I believe that you are MISTAKEN..I believe that those kits WOULD sell well..."

Maybe those kits would have sold.

But they were not made because PL thought they wouldn't have made money for the company.

Stop using Trek fans as a whipping boy, Brent.

Bitch about the people who didn't give you what you asked for in this forum.
Trek fans certainly didn't get the subjects they wanted most either, and it's still questionable if they will get anything past the Refit- even that is not certain until it is on the shelves.

Stop blaming Trek fans because we have gotten a couple of good kits out of the company so far.

Trek fans have gotten far less kits from PL then you have gotten repops and figure kits.

If PL didn't think there were profitable kits to repop that you wished they had, it's not the fault of Trek fans.

Please look for scapegoats elsewhere.
 

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Chuck.

Whoa! I think you are misreading me or my words aren't reflecting my meaning there old friend!

I am not:
  1. using Trek fans as a whipping boy;
  2. blaming Trek fans because they have gotten a couple of good kits out of the company so far;
  3. looking for scapegoats.
I have no problem with Trek kits. I plan to buy the upcoming geezly big Enterprise! I just wanted to point out that Polar Lights could give us so much more from the general science fiction genre (and provided some examples of that) rather than focussing exclusively on Star Trek.

My "Trek Shmek" remark was just intended to convey my frustration that the focus has been on Trek to the detriment of other subjects, not to crap on Trek or its fans.

Huzz
 

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Dave Hussey said:
Chuck.

Whoa! I think you are misreading me or my words aren't reflecting my meaning there old friend!

I am not:
  1. using Trek fans as a whipping boy;
  2. blaming Trek fans because they have gotten a couple of good kits out of the company so far;
  3. looking for scapegoats.
I have no problem with Trek kits. I plan to buy the upcoming geezly big Enterprise! I just wanted to point out that Polar Lights could give us so much more from the general science fiction genre (and provided some examples of that) rather than focussing exclusively on Star Trek.

My "Trek Shmek" remark was just intended to convey my frustration that the focus has been on Trek to the detriment of other subjects, not to crap on Trek or its fans.

Huzz
Sorry if I left the impression that I thought you were.

My response was mainly towards Brent's statements and the statements of many of the "me-too" crowd that often likes to pile on when it comes to the the Aurora/figure vs other subjects crowd.

When I made the comment "Maybe those kits would have sold, Zathros, Dave Hussey."(I've since edited the post above to avoid further confusion)

I meant simply to imply that you might have been correct, not that you think that Trek was "the end of Polar Lights."

There were several non-Trek kits I would have liked to have seen as well, including a bigger Seaview that didn't cost $1000 bucks like the DeBoer one.

My point is that the reason these kits weren't made was because the marketing staff made those decisions.

They also made some dumb decisions in their Trek subject selection as well.

Finally, I also wanted to remind everyone that Trek fans only have gotten three kits from Polar Lights, one of which was royally screwed up at the factory.

Even counting that, Trek fans getting three kits doesn't begin to compare to the number of great repops that Aurora and figure kit fans have gotten.

I hope Brent and others who might initially agree with him consider this and not begrudge us the three kits we've gotten compared to the tons of other great kits that they have gotten.

I don't feel that the Trek line hurt the company at all.
The TOS E flys off shelves.
The factory screwing up the D-7 and PL's missing last year's lucrative Christmas season due to production problems is also hardly the fault of the fact that these two last releases were Trek subjects.

Poor management at the factory or even lack of communication on the part of PL perhaps, but that is the fault of PL management and could have happened on a Captain America model or Seaview just as easily.
 
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