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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
News Flash: Shaw starts work on another Enterprise model

Quick show of hands... how many of you thought that my next model project would be another Enterprise model? Yeah, that was what I thought, I'm pretty predictable in that way.

This project was originally supposed to be started six months to a year from now, but recent events (which I'm not at liberty to discuss) pushed this forward, and the fact that this would be a perfect model to test creating molds and casting parts pushed it right to the front of the line.

I'm sure that most people in these parts are familiar with the Phase II Enterprise, this study model will be my attempt to bring together elements of Matt Jefferies' Phase II plans with elements of Brick Price's miniature, fleshing out the geometry and details that would have made up a final studio model had it been finished. The end result will (hopefully) be an accurate representation of what the model might have looked like and all the details needed to put together a final set of plans of the model.

Some of you might have noted that I brought up geometry, and this is why I'm using both Jefferies and Price's work, and why building a study model is also important. One need look no further than one of the signature elements of the Phase II design to see where these types of problems pop up... I'm talking about the nacelles. Jefferies' drawing seem to miss some aspects of how the (complex) elements would come together, and I noticed that the areas that were bothering me seem to have been done as I might have dealt with them on Price's model.

Based on the measure twice, cut once approach, I'm drawing up plans for the different elements making sure I address as many issues that might pop up in construction as I can on paper so that I won't be caught by surprise (too much) when the physical building starts. As noted above, this is where I'll be cutting my teeth on making molds and casting parts (though I did a little of that back in 1989 to 1991), an I'd like to concentrate on that aspect while building.

So, as I said, the nacelles are going to be a challenge, so I'm starting with them. Studying the design of the nacelles, I've tried to strip away any elements that define if the nacelle is port or starboard, and concentrate on building a symmetric foundation nacelle. This can then be used to make two copies and I'd add the unique elements to those to make them either port or starboard. This is my preliminary nacelle design...


This sketch more closely resembles the geometry of the Price miniature than the Jefferies plans (even though they are mostly based on measurements from the Jefferies plans).


Some of the things I need to still reconcile...

Decals and hull markings- On Jefferies' plans he uses the same lettering style as was used on the pilot versions of the Enterprise, but an enlarged section of the secondary hull near the docking port has a "7" that is more like the series version. Plus, the plans don't include any of the other markings (besides the number and pendant on the side of the secondary hull), but the idea was that the secondary hull and primary hull were left unaltered... so I'm looking into if those elements (that weren't directly effected by the major changes) are carried over. I'm leaning towards yes on most, because it looks like some of the panel lines on the secondary hull are actually placed about where the water mark numbers are on the original models.

Windows and other features on the Primary Hull- Jefferies included very few features on his drawings of the primary hull, which might reflect the idea that those would be taken directly from the original models unless specifically drawn out by him. Unfortunately, early test assemblies of the model show a primary hull that only includes the features Jefferies had drawn and nothing else. And studies of the Planet Hollywood models show that no additional features were added to the molds (as the windows on those models were roughly drilled into an otherwise smooth surface).

So I'm hoping that I'll be able to answer many of these mysteries in the coming months (specially before I have to address them in the building of this model).


Additional resources...
Sorry that these resources are pretty old, but I don't have any thing else that I can directly share at this time. But I'll try to be sure to include improved data in my sketches and (of course) the final plans when completed.
 

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As always, Shaw, your research is fan-freakin'-tastic.


I've occasionally toyed with the idea of bashing together 1/1000 TOS and Refit kits into a PHASE II. It sort of baffles me that there's no aftermarket set out there to make to job easier!


Really, the basic shape of the Refit is correct for the PII. The only major replacement parts would be the hangar doors, Bridge/B/C decks, dorsal torp tube, impulse engines, and nacelles/pylons.

The trickiest part would be rescribing the saucer grid to have the correct amount and spacing of gridlines.
 

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A while back, I bashed together a AMT refit and a Cutaway, and it came out pretty decent. Somewhere on photobucket, I'm pretty sure I've got pictures, which I can't seem to locate at the moment...
 

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Really, the basic shape of the Refit is correct for the PII. The only major replacement parts would be the hangar doors, Bridge/B/C decks, dorsal torp tube, impulse engines, and nacelles/pylons.
You're exactly right. Except for heavily modifying the engines or scratchbuilding them, it's not much of a conversion job.

The trickiest part would be rescribing the saucer grid to have the correct amount and spacing of gridlines.
I've thought of doing a PII but not going to the point of rescribing the saucer.

I've been planning on building up a USS Lexington as if the saucer and secondary hull (converted from the old AMT refit kit) were built Phase II style to begin with and then adding the cutaway STOS style engines. Would make for an interesting variation of the Constitution class, I think.
 

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News Flash: Shaw starts work on another Enterprise model . . .

I'm sure that most people in these parts are familiar with the Phase II Enterprise, this study model will be my attempt to bring together elements of Matt Jefferies' Phase II plans with elements of Brick Price's miniature, fleshing out the geometry and details that would have made up a final studio model had it been finished. The end result will (hopefully) be an accurate representation of what the model might have looked like and all the details needed to put together a final set of plans of the model.
Excellent news! Looking forward to every bit of it! :thumbsup:

You and Gregatron are fonts of incredible knowledge and attention to detail! :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the encouragement guys! :thumbsup:



Well, the fact that the primary hull and secondary hull are nearly identical gives me a starting point... sort of.


I'll be building the primary hull and secondary hull from an AMT/ERTL refit, but I plan on removing all the surface features on both and filling in any holes left from the removal of those features.

Obviously, there is going to be a big hole on top of the primary hull after removing the B/C deck structure and a hole where the impulse engine housing was. When I'm to the stage where I'll be test fitting the new B/C deck and impulse engine spine, the upper primary hull should look like there were never any holes in those spots. Similarly, the base of the nacelle support struts need to be removed and the holes that remain modified to work with the new support struts. The hole where the refit dorsal attached to the secondary hull will also need modification to accept the new dorsal.

Additionally, the upper rim of the primary hull needs to be brought to a sharp edge (like the TOS Enterprise) and (as noted) the hangar area needs reworking. I'm not worried about the hangar modifications as I actually did everything I need to do here on my last two-thirds scale 33 inch replica (I cut off everything and started over on that one, including reshaping the undercut).

When it comes down to it, I honestly debated not using the AMT/ERTL refit as a starting point because so little of the model will actually be used (and even then heavily modified). I've made primary hulls from scratch before and the cool interlocking setup of the TOS cutaway model between the nacelle supports and the secondary hull doesn't exist here (that was the only reason I used any parts from the cutaway in my last Enterprise).

What tipped the scales in favor of the AMT/ERTL refit was that having the general shapes of the primary hull and secondary hull might cut down on the work on those parts (hopefully by half), and if it turns out to be a nice model maybe people would be willing to buy parts for their AMT/ERTL refit (most likely I'd only offer the nacelles and bridge/B/C deck structure). After all, the parts I scratch build aren't going to be the parts that end up on the model, so I should end up with masters and molds after I finish. Plus I'll be putting together decals for the windows and other hull markings that people might want (even if they don't change any parts on the AMT/ERTL refit). I've also been considering putting together decals that would match the hull markings of the refit as it was before the last minute reworking for TMP (as I have a number of good references for them now).

And using the AMT/ERTL refit primary hull and secondary hull might still involve additional work that I haven't planned for. For example, once I have those parts, I'll be scanning in the contours of them and doing a direct comparison with my plans. If they deviate by too much, I'll have to put extra effort into modifying them further. This being a study model, I'd be willing to accept a certain margin of deviation from the plans (like I had to on my last Enterprise model).

Because this model will be significantly smaller than the studio model (22 inches compared to 63 inches), I'm not going to worry about scribing either grid lines or panel lines on this model. I'll most likely do what I did on the Republic (draw all of them with white pencil, only a little more pronounced in this case).
 

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I might have mentioned this before, but they have Brick Price's unused 6'-8' Phase II model hanging from the ceiling of the Planet Hollywood in NY, NY, (or at least they used to). I've still got a few photos of it from the last time I was there.



 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I think a little back history on the subject might be helpful.

I started working on this in the summer of 2007 at about the same time as I started in on my plans for the 33 inch TOS Enterprise. In addition to cleaning up copies of Jefferies' plans, I had started in on making a complete set of plans of the Phase II Enterprise. What I found was that the holes in my data left me making too many "artistic" choices... and it is one of the main rules I set for myself to not inject myself into historical research (after all, I wasn't there).

This is as far as I had gotten when I put the whole project on ice...


There have been a lot of CGI attempts at making an accurate representation, I think Dennis Bailey and NBTrekie both made very nice CGI models from the available information. Daren Dochterman's version strays way off into making massive artistic changes, and even the current version that the Phase II production has adopted (which is actually nice) basically takes elements of Dochterman's earlier model (the nacelles and supports) and puts them on a TOS Enterprise.

But in all these cases, we are talking about people filling in the gaps with their artistic ideas (or making complete changes), which was a line I didn't want to cross.

What changed was that I got an e-mail out of the blue from someone (who wishes to remain anonymous) that had information that could fill in a majority of the gaps in information that stopped the project 5 years ago. That is why, other than the modified primary hull and secondary hull, everything else on this model will be built from scratch.



So Spidey7, I noticed that you had some questions (here about the Planet Hollywood model. Here is the full story...

There were five of those models made. Brick Price was commissioned by Paramount to modify the Phase II Enterprise parts to build replicas of the TMP Enterprise and the models were presented to Planet Hollywood by Paramount. Price still has the molds, but he doesn't have a license from CBS to make any additional models and has never provided models from those molds to anyone other than Paramount.

More over, the reason why the Phase II Enterprise was scrapped was so that Magicam (a newly formed effects wing of Paramount) could build the TMP model. There was nothing wrong with the size of the Phase II model, at 5 feet 4 inches, it is actually in scale with the Reliant (which is why parts from the original Phase II model delivered to Paramount ended up on the Reliant model in TNG). Parts of the original model did actually make it onto the big screen... as the destroyed Enterprise in Star Trek III.

As for the Planet Hollywood models, I know one of then was sold on ebay back in the spring of 2008 to a collector for about $15,000. That model underwent major modification by Ed Miarecki to more closely resemble the TMP Enterprise and now resides in Space Dock.


Hope that fills in a few gaps... sorry for the long winded post with no real progress.
 

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Shaw, your research is thorough and inspiring!

I have a Cutaway Enterprise set aside aside for a Phase II -ish conversion, but only have Refit engines and pylons to go with it for now.

Really liked your engine analysis drawings; good sectional views.
 

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Don't get me wrong, I love anything Enterprise ,but I think something like this done on the TOS version and presented here for the sake of detailing
and reference in preparation of the 350 kit would be quite valuable to builders less familiar with the minutia of Trekdom . A seperate thread perhaps.
 

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Don't get me wrong, I love anything Enterprise ,but I think something like this done on the TOS version and presented here for the sake of detailing
and reference in preparation of the 350 kit would be quite valuable to builders less familiar with the minutia of Trekdom . A seperate thread perhaps.
Ummm, the name of this thread is "Phase II Enterprise Study Model". It has nothing to do with the 1/350 TOS Enterprise.
 

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Ummm, the name of this thread is "Phase II Enterprise Study Model". It has nothing to do with the 1/350 TOS Enterprise.
Precisely why I suggested another thread, Mr. Shaws work is amazing and I can only imagine what something like this on the 350 Enterprise might be like. Please continue the discussion at hand..
 

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I guess my question is just how 'finalized' was the Phase II Enterprise? All I had ever seen was pictures of an 'in progress' model but details such as the nacelles were still rough, as if they were struggling with what they actually wanted.

Lighting didn't seem to be much of a consideration oddly enough.

So, reading between the lines in the thread so far, it seems the Phase II was an ongoing collaboration between Brick Price and Matt Jefferies because it doesn't seem that Jefferies presented finished plans for a model to be built from. I do not discount the potential that Roddenberry had both Price and Jefferies working (unknowingly) at cross purposes which may well have resulted in lots and lots of 'start and stop and do it over' action.

Say, is Price still alive? Maybe someone needs to get his story down on paper about Phase II and TMP.

Anyway, my thought on the nacelles, with my built in assumption that they were not quite finalized as Jefferies struggled with the balance/proportion issue (as we all know, VERY important with the Enterprise and why many feel the JJPrise was just...off...) is: Think aircraft. Consider the original Enterprise as if it had big, giant rotary piston engines turning propellers. You can see the image if you think about it. Now, the Phase II Enterprise was to be the new hotness, and it was faster and streamlined and so on, so the nacelles may be more akin to either a turboprop, or of course a axle flow jet engine.

Shaw, I think you're on the right track from what I see so far. I'm not sure that low on the hull docking hatch would have stayed, there's a clear 'interface issue' when someone would walk from the original design office unit/shuttlepod thing onto the ship. I kind of like the giant 'buzz numbers' on the engineering hull, sort of says the nacelles are so darn mighty they don't dare put stuff on them. :)
 

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One of the things that's held me back from any sort of PII model would be the existence of those gray areas Shaw mentioned--those details that would require artistic license in order to complete the model.

We've only really had the unfinished model, the blueprints, and a few concept paintings to go by. A number of key areas (like the specifics of the deflector dish, engines, and markings) have been hard to pin down, as a result.



Looking forward to seeing what comes of this research!
 

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Found my pictures!






I did it mainly as a proof-of-concept model, going by Matt Jefferies' stated intent for the saucer to remain "largely untouched" and the bulk of the changed taking place with the lower hull and the engines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I really do appreciate the confidence you guys have in me. There is a lot more to all this, but I'm not at liberty to discuss certain aspects, other aspects I'm not sure I should discuss, and still other aspects I'd like to cross reference before discussing. On the technical side of things, I haven't had the opportunity yet to see the resources that might be available (as I'm currently geographically challenged).

I'd point out that the photos we've all seen of the model wasn't the actual model (or at least not all of it). The primary hull and one nacelle of the test assembly that was photographed were pulls from the molds. The dorsal, secondary hull, supports and the other nacelle were the (unfinished) masters. The model had progress much further before Paramount pulled the plug on the model (which is why I'm sure that I can fill in a lot of the gray areas that eluded me before).

As for how close Jefferies and Price had worked together, Price was working from Jefferies plans and the model followed those even closer than Datin's TOS Enterprise models had to Jefferies' plans. Jefferies knew from the outset that he was going to be a little out of the loop because he wasn't willing to give up his job on Little House on the Prairie. And Jefferies even took the time to note this on one of his drawings which reads...
"DRAWING NOT UPDATED TO REFLECT CHANGES MADE ON MINIATURE"
And even though this was 13 years after the original TOS models were designed and built, this was still primarily a hand drawn drafting era (though oversize copying machines were readily available by this point). So even though Jefferies could keep copies of his drawings (something he hadn't with the original TOS Enterprise plans), the curves of certain parts changed from version to version. Which is why Price's model is closer to the one-to-one scale plans than any of the other drawings done by Jefferies.

Will the full story of all this come out one day? Sure... but right now most everyone seems to want to talk off the record because they still have cards in the game (so to speak). And while I like the history stuff, the technical stuff is what I'm really passionate about... and collecting together all the technical data into a complete set of plans (and a model... or two) doesn't seem to harm anyone (though I would love to give credit where credit is due).
 

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The major questions I have--and that have been open to artistic interpretations, so far--are the following:

1. What was the deflector supposed to look like? There is plenty of artwork showing a TOS style deflector dish but the original plans showed nothing there leaving it looking similar to the movie refit.

2. What was the paint job and detailing going to be like? We can get some ideas from the artwork but that's nothing as firm as written notes, etc. Light gray as on the TOS version or perhaps something much closer to white as appears in some of the artwork?

3. There was going to be engine lighting (blue-green, IIRC) coming from the engines inboard (and outboard?) grilles similar to the purple or blue coming from the movie refit inboard engines but, IIRC, Roddenberry supposedly wanted some extra lighting details--what were they going to be like?

I think the following are nailed down:

1. Structural details (with exception of deflector dish) that resemble the movie refit in general on the primary and secondary hulls are pretty much firm based on what's available with blueprints and artwork.

2. Location and style of font used on the Phase II is firm based on completed section of secondary hull used for close-up of shuttlepod docking and artwork.

It seems that there should be enough people still around who were involved in the project to answer some of these questions. I can't imagine that these are "industry secrets" or anything. It would be nice to fill in some of the details on the 1701P2 or perhaps the answers are already out there and I just haven't come across them yet.
 

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I'm curious to see how this will turn out even though I've never really cared for the Phase II design. I felt it looked awkward. The TMP refit was a huge improvement.
 
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