[Brian Burkhart]

being that i just got on this thread and it seems like a good place id like to offer any setup advice or answer questions that you guys may have about Oval racing in general...keep in mind that i run a Racetech MacAttack but will answer questions on any cars.

 

[tfrahm]

OK -- I'll jump in... I've seen what you've posted about your Snowbirds setup, etc...

I normally run "spoiler only" (no wing) on small (135-155' lap length) flat carpet ovals, but others have convinced me to try changing to a body mounted wing (BRP Bi-level "super wing" with the upper element removed). Old spoiler was just under 1" high -- new wing is level with top of body, only small lip at rear, front of wing is even with the rear axle.

If I swap bodies -- what changes would you anticipate in the setup? More/less LR tweak? Battery moved back/fwd?

I know you can't be exact, but I'm looking for a head start on re-tuning (if necessary) the chassis setup...

[This message has been edited by tfrahm (edited 02-22-2002).]

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Tfrahm- if you have been running only with a spoiler and you go to a BRP super wing thats a big change...you might want to try a smaller wing to start...in 19T i run a Thunder small wing...you dont that much downforce on the rear tires when running stock or 19T...if you do run the big wing you should move your battery forward and should be able to take left rear out of the car...you also might want to try and use the new Protoform HD Monte Carlo...it has alot of downforce all over the body especially in the front...any other questions let me know...hope this helps.

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Tfrahm....one question i have is how wide is the infield on the tracks that you are running? that will give me info to get you going in the right direction on a setup.

 

[tfrahm]

Wing is the BRP 5237, but with only the lower element (which has only about 1/4" of "lip" at the back, at a shallow angle -- so there isn't going to be much downforce, mostly just the BIG side plates for directional stability)

Tracks are bullrings, with infields of around 8' average (or less).

Using a spoiler seemed to be really good on handling, but the faster guys have convinced me that I had too much drag from the spoiler. They claim the wing (with only one element and the small lip) has much less drag and thus more speed... Carpet is Ozite (gray), with decent bite...

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Tfrahm - ive never raced a track that a sopiler has more drag than a wing if the spoiler is normal size...the BRP 5237 is a very wide wing..you might want to try a BRP 5241 which has the same size side dams but is much narrower...the downforce for a wing comes more from the deck than the kickup.

 

[mel]

Who makes the Thunder wing? Please give a part number if possible. Congrats on your wins at the Snobirds. I seen the new MC and that is a wild looking body. You think that body will work well on all flat carpet tracks? Thanks

 

[tfrahm]

BB -- thanks for the replies!

It has been 4-5 years since I last used a wing on an oval car (I've been running well enough with a spoiler, I hadn't given wings much of a thought), and the cars have changed so much, and back then we ran the wings on the POD and not the BODY, etc., etc. so I am almost starting over at the beginning.

I had always thought the way you seem to (that a proper sized spoiler is the way to go) but I keep getting beaten by guys running wings...?

This is the tricky part about oval setup -- getting that last 0.1 second per lap that gets you into the 'A' instead of the 'B'... I finally gave in on the idea of trying a body mounted wing after a frustrating weekend where I changed gearing over a 2-3 tooth range on the pinion and still ran virtually identical runs every time (using a pinion range of 31-33, I ran 4 runs that were ALL 61 4-flat, ranging from 4:00.40-4:00.94)... FRUSTRATING! Something in the handling "package" had to be wrong, and I had played with tires and tweak and finally decided that maybe the "wing" guys were right... (To be honest, my heart's not really in the wing test, but I have to try it just to see...)




[This message has been edited by tfrahm (edited 02-22-2002).]

 

[Brian Burkhart]

the biggest thing a wing is going to do is calm the car down to make it a tick more consistent and maybe give you that .10 that you need...keep in mind that the only way to be truly fast on a flat oval is to make sure your front end is setup right...what springs are running?

 

[tfrahm]

On this car I ran the 4 identical runs with, I'm running Associated springs -- 0.020 on the LF and 0.018 on the RF. (this was with an ADX I was using as a testbed before the Carpet Pro chassis had arrived) Rear shocks were VCS Blue right, VCS Silver left, with Green center springs (all 3 using 30wt). Rear tires were 33 durometer BSR Blues, RF was 48 durometer TRC purple, LF was 32 durometer TM DblBlack. Tweak averaged 1-2 oz heavy on LR...

 

[BadSign]

Tom,
One advantage I have found is that the the wing may not produce significantly more downforce or drag, but the side dams really help increase your directional stability.

 

[tfrahm]

BadSign -- that is sort of what I've been told... The "fast guys" run their wings almost totally "flat" (so only the little lip adds downforce/drag), and they said that they could run their cars much more "loose" ("loose is fast", right?) and yet the car was "drivable" because the big side plates worked like the tail fin on an airplane, keeping the car under control...

Ages ago, we really used the pod mounted wing for downforce, and the side plates were minimal (almost like an offroad wing) -- this old school aproach always had too much drag and the pod mounting tended to cause a push... That's why I switched to spoilers and they have worked well for me, but lately I'm just giving up that 0.1 sec. somewere out there on the track, and I can't find it! I can turn 3.7&3.8's, but they turn 3.6&3.7's and they do it more consistently --leaving me in the dust!

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Mel - the Thunder wing is made by Thunder Racing...the part # is THU2000 or 2000L..the L is thinner and lighter version....i think the HD MC will be good on all flat tracks...downforce is very important on those tracks and that body has alot of it.

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Tfrahm - try this setup with the ADX....get some Wolfe Motorsports long kingpins so you can use the longer wolfe springs...these springs give the car alot more steering...run a white on the right front and a red on the left front...try a red spring on the left rear shock spring and a gold spring on the right rear...this setup in the back allows the car to stay flatter in corner because of the stiffer left rear spring...also you may try Jaco black rears and black right front and a green left front. also try 60 wt in the center shock with a red off road spring cut to the right length...this is a very aggresive setup as far as steering goes so may have to adjust it to your driving style but it might work for you.

 

[irvan36mm]

Hi Brian!
What do you suggest for a flat (kinda bumpy in some spots!) asphalt oval. The track is about 355' (running line) with the turns slightly banked at about 2 degrees & 3-5 degrees. I have an L3O with the 4-cell Team chassis conversion. I am running .022 Assoc. springs up front,Blue side springs on the VCS shocks and silver spring on the center shock. All 3 shocks have 35 wt oil. I am looking for suggestions as far as caster. The LF has 3 degrees & the RF has 2 degrees. Also would like to hear about that L3O setup that you mentioned!

Thanks in advance!
-George

[This message has been edited by irvan36mm (edited 02-22-2002).]

 

[MACE]

George where do you run at??

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Irvan - if your track is pretty bumpy i would try and run Wolfe long springs in the front....on aspahlt id start with a green on the right front and a purple on the left front...the center shock spring is probably right but again id stiffen the side shock springs...the stiffer you can get away with on flat tracks the better because the car wont roll over in the corner as bad...as far as cater goes try the right front split with 2 shims in the front to take most of the caster out usually ends up being around 1 degree...try split in the left front 1 and 1...the reason i start there is because it gives you room to add more caster if you need it...more caster will make the car turn harder going in and steer less coming off which is what you need in flat track...i think the wolfe springs will really help in the bumps.

 

[Brian Burkhart]

oops...forgot the L3O setup
Frt springs = red right, green left, long front kingpins with Adj caster blocks, run thr right front arm with an angle and run the left front arm flat.
T- Bar = TRC 6263 spring steel
Rear Springs = Red left rear, gold right rear, Red offroad spring cut to length
Oil = 35 in sides and 60 in center(Trinity shock oil)
Ride height = as low as your rules allow or high enough that you dont hit..also run about a .5 mm of rake in the chassis
Tires = Black RR, White LR, Black RF, Green LF
Body = Protoform HD Monte Carlo 1223L
Wing = Thunder 2000L Small wing

 

[vodo321]

im new to oval, changed from touring to oval, and would like a good starting setup.

I have a g-force slider (thanks anthony C.) and am looking for a good setup. everything from tires to gearing and all the way down to the best servo.

I race at Hobbytown Indy, its an ozite track that is 155". my tire width is about 54mm. My gearing im running is 100 and 25. i race 4 cell stock. running a p2k2 and 3000hv packs.

 

[Brian Burkhart]

Vodo try the setup i wrote above...i ran the exact same setup with my Racetech car that i ran with my L3...gearing is tough...ask Sonny at Hobbytown for that...he will help you with that. the best servo is a matter of preference and how much you want to spend...i run an Airtronics 94145...its around $80 i think but its very fast.