Hobbyist Forums banner

1 - 20 of 58 Posts

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,011 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Just watched the Monaco race on DVR and am currently watching the Indy 500. Charlotte race tonight, isn't this a great weekend??
While watching, I thought of all the slams at NASCAR that I've heard lately: the cars all look alike, single file racing, drive in front runs away from the field... and I'm wondering... how is that different from F1 and Indy???

Not stirring, serious question. Why is F1 and Indy held in such reverence when I feel there is better side by side racing in NASCAR. Anyone?

BTW, I'm a racing fan. I'm watching all of them today... and plan on enjoying them all!

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,263 Posts
Hi LeeRoy98
I'm right there with you,Racing has been in my blood since a little kid, waiting with mom and sis at the front gate to open so we could watch my dad race.
I like the side by side racing but understand that some people have better equipment which allows them to run out front all the Time.One thing that cracks me up is when somebody starts winning a lot the fans sometimes turn on them and wish somebody else would start winning for instance how Jimmy Johnson has won the title a lot but since Tony Stewart won it last year I haven't heard as much jimmy bashing.
To many the 2 things Hurting NASCAR is money and Ego's and when the 2 combine it hardly ever works out to be good.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
675 Posts
A good race is a good race, no matter what sort of cars are running.

I think the slight (and its very slight) anti-NASCAR bias here comes more from rose colored glasses. Everyone has their own personal glory years for racing, and when you get a number of 40-50 year olds (which I am one) you get a lot of people who harken back to the days when Petty, Pearson, Allison and Yarborough were the kings of the pile. (or choose your era, depending on how old you are) Naturally anything that comes later is going to be found wanting.

That's not an indictment on anyone...its your 2 cents, and mine, and folks can feel however hey want. I never had that much of an attachment to NASCAR, but I'm definitely guilty of preferring the "good old days" at my local track over what's running there now.

Personally, with regard to NASCAR, I certainly liked the cars of yesteryear...but I think the actual racing now is a lot better.
 

·
Geico ad . . . Offensive?
Joined
·
6,702 Posts
. . . Why is F1 and Indy held in such reverence when I feel there is better side by side racing in NASCAR. Anyone? . . .

I guess it depends somewhat on the fan. As for Indy cars, some of the worst races I've seen were Indy car races at the Milwaukee Mile. I wouldn't cross the street to see an Indy car race there after a while. However, some of the best Indy car races - or races, period - have been the Indy 500s thru the years. And this year's race was pretty darn good again. Everyone is on their A-game at Indy and the chances taken are multiplied in relation to the reward & prestige.

As for F1, a LOT of the races are runaways where one guy / team stinks up the show as it were. It is accepted by fans of F1, however, because F1 is open competition for the most part. Sure, the tires are spec and some dimensions are controlled by the rules, but for the most part, if someone builds a better car and hands everyone their asses on Sunday - good on them. To a non-fan, however, it looks like one guy just ran away with it, when in actuality that team may have been working on & refining that car for a full year to get that perfect result. F1 fans can appreciate that.

In NASCAR a lot of us remember when the drivers were fighting the cars in a drift, on bias-ply tires, lap after lap. They'd get out of the car with their tongues hanging out, dirty and tired, but a winner. You could see that effort as a fan. Now, the cars stick like glue and corner like they're on rails. The tires and the aero bits make it look easy, and more guys run well as a result. This is good for the racing I guess but it is not as intriguing for the long-time fan. I'd rather see a gassed Darrell Waltrip taking oxygen and pouring Mountain Dew down the back of his driver's uniform to cool off after 500 laps at Bristol than see Carl Edwards flash his pearly whites and backflip out of his car looking like he hasn't broken a sweat.

I think NASCAR could make these guys hustle the cars a little more by getting rid of the air dams and putting stock bumpers back on the front of the cars, and going back to a 2"-3" spoiler. But then if 4 or 5 guys started lapping everyone else a lot of people would cry that the racing wasn't any good - rather than recognizing the guys who can drive the wheels off.

My $.02 anyway. Onward to the 600!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,024 Posts
me
I do not hate it, just not a fan

Driving a oval in a real car or slot car (TO ME) is boring.
I think they should all be on road courses
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
I guess it depends somewhat on the fan. As for Indy cars, some of the worst races I've seen were Indy car races at the Milwaukee Mile. I wouldn't cross the street to see an Indy car race there after a while. However, some of the best Indy car races - or races, period - have been the Indy 500s thru the years. And this year's race was pretty darn good again. Everyone is on their A-game at Indy and the chances taken are multiplied in relation to the reward & prestige.

As for F1, a LOT of the races are runaways where one guy / team stinks up the show as it were. It is accepted by fans of F1, however, because F1 is open competition for the most part. Sure, the tires are spec and some dimensions are controlled by the rules, but for the most part, if someone builds a better car and hands everyone their asses on Sunday - good on them. To a non-fan, however, it looks like one guy just ran away with it, when in actuality that team may have been working on & refining that car for a full year to get that perfect result. F1 fans can appreciate that.

In NASCAR a lot of us remember when the drivers were fighting the cars in a drift, on bias-ply tires, lap after lap. They'd get out of the car with their tongues hanging out, dirty and tired, but a winner. You could see that effort as a fan. Now, the cars stick like glue and corner like they're on rails. The tires and the aero bits make it look easy, and more guys run well as a result. This is good for the racing I guess but it is not as intriguing for the long-time fan. I'd rather see a gassed Darrell Waltrip taking oxygen and pouring Mountain Dew down the back of his driver's uniform to cool off after 500 laps at Bristol than see Carl Edwards flash his pearly whites and backflip out of his car looking like he hasn't broken a sweat.

I think NASCAR could make these guys hustle the cars a little more by getting rid of the air dams and putting stock bumpers back on the front of the cars, and going back to a 2"-3" spoiler. But then if 4 or 5 guys started lapping everyone else a lot of people would cry that the racing wasn't any good - rather than recognizing the guys who can drive the wheels off.

My $.02 anyway. Onward to the 600!
You Nailed it!
Bias Ply tires, no cool suits, no power steering and guys who grew up driving dirt!

Now as to the Bias against present day Na$car, that is an animal unto itself.
Greedy Track owners, more greedy hotel owners, bad economy, 2 wars, unemployment thru the roof, it doesn't take much to pizz people off these days with all these factors.

Now, add the non-stop Danica BS and it really becomes something that I continue to set the DVR for and fast forward the heck out of later when I am bored.
As I type this the 600 is on and I watched the start and was bored within 30 laps.
Maybe part of the hype of Nascar in the late 90's was just that, a passing Fad. I don't know. But I can tell you my lawn has never looked better so at least we can thank them for that:)
\
Later and everyone please have a safe Holiday Weekend,
Keith
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,011 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
And on a side note... my DVR also picked up a set of Aussie V8 Super cars. Now if you want to trash Nascar, F1, and Indy because you prefer these cars... well, maybe that I CAN understand!!

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com
 

·
BANNED
Joined
·
8,117 Posts
watched some of the Aussie V8 super cars race today myself. I need to watch a little more to make a decision about them. they are intriguing and I will be looking for the schedule.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
512 Posts
The problem with Nascar today is all the drivers are rich. Years back, a large number of drivers would be back Monday morning at their jobs at the machine shop.

That makes for a totally different kind of driver and enthusiasm!

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,512 Posts
I generally like all forms of racing from NHRA to F1. My favorite racing is any Saturday night racing at a local dirt track. That's where the real excitement really is for racing fans and families.

Generally speaking the bigger the venue and longer the race, the duller it tends to be. Yesterdays Indy 500 was kind of interesting. The new cars are kind of cool. I watched pretty much the whole thing but I can only recall 5 or 6 drivers being in contention over the course of the entire race. The other 25 were out there for background track scenery I guess. Except the Lotus powered cars, which served as garage scenery.

The Coca Cola 600 was pretty much the same. There were at least 30 drivers and cars that got zero air time over the span of a 4 hour race. Not to pick on Joey Logano, but was he even participating in that race? Ryan Newman? I won't mention the other 29 or so invisible non-contenders or the one totally non competitive driver who got quite a bit of air time despite finishing 5 laps down. With the engineering behind a modern NASCAR car going 600 miles is simply not that big a deal especially with most of the cars and drivers on cruise control for the first 500 or so miles. NASCAR has shown they can put on a good show with the Clash/Shootout and the All Star race formats. Some variations on those themes would go a long way towards making the races more exciting. Maybe bring back more smaller tracks and drop the snoozer tracks the Pocono. I'm pretty loyal about sticking with NASCAR through thick and thin but the two races at Pocono really put my loyalty to the extreme test, followed of course by Fontana and Michigan. By July I'm usually begging for Richmond to hurry up and get here.

I don't get to see a lot of F1 races because I am too cheap to buy a real cable plan but the ones I've seen while traveling over the past few years have mostly been like watching a chess match. The F1 tracks and cars are stunning but the race outcome is too often decided on the first corner of the first lap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,661 Posts
+1 = My .02¢

I concur 100% with everything said below....
I generally like all forms of racing from NHRA to F1. My favorite racing is any Saturday night racing at a local dirt track. That's where the real excitement really is for racing fans and families.

Generally speaking the bigger the venue and longer the race, the duller it tends to be. Yesterdays Indy 500 was kind of interesting. The new cars are kind of cool. I watched pretty much the whole thing but I can only recall 5 or 6 drivers being in contention over the course of the entire race. The other 25 were out there for background track scenery I guess. Except the Lotus powered cars, which served as garage scenery.

The Coca Cola 600 was pretty much the same. There were at least 30 drivers and cars that got zero air time over the span of a 4 hour race. Not to pick on Joey Logano, but was he even participating in that race? Ryan Newman? I won't mention the other 29 or so invisible non-contenders or the one totally non competitive driver who got quite a bit of air time despite finishing 5 laps down. With the engineering behind a modern NASCAR car going 600 miles is simply not that big a deal especially with most of the cars and drivers on cruise control for the first 500 or so miles. NASCAR has shown they can put on a good show with the Clash/Shootout and the All Star race formats. Some variations on those themes would go a long way towards making the races more exciting. Maybe bring back more smaller tracks and drop the snoozer tracks the Pocono. I'm pretty loyal about sticking with NASCAR through thick and thin but the two races at Pocono really put my loyalty to the extreme test, followed of course by Fontana and Michigan. By July I'm usually begging for Richmond to hurry up and get here.

I don't get to see a lot of F1 races because I am too cheap to buy a real cable plan but the ones I've seen while traveling over the past few years have mostly been like watching a chess match. The F1 tracks and cars are stunning but the race outcome is too often decided on the first corner of the first lap.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
602 Posts
I watched every minute of racing yesterday, Including the "600".

To me F1 is the ultimate in racing. They build their own chassis, come up with their own aero tidbits, suspension parts, lots of innovation going on. Indycar is a spec car series. The only thing different is the motors. But the "500" was the best I've seen in years. NASCAR is getting better, but is still a spec car and only a few shops building their own stuff.

I really don't like the big ovals. I watched last night mostly for the pre-race show and the festivities. But the 1.5 mile ovals are killing nascar. They need to get more diversity in the schedule. More short tracks, and road courses. I think they could even get away from the big cars and move to a V8 super car type chassis, maybe just for the road courses.Leave the big cars for the ovals.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,011 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
The problem with Nascar today is all the drivers are rich. Years back, a large number of drivers would be back Monday morning at their jobs at the machine shop.

That makes for a totally different kind of driver and enthusiasm!

Jim Norton
Huntsville, AL
I would have to disagree, I do not think we have had any drivers having to report to their machine shop jobs for 40+ years. I do not believe the driver income has any more of a relationship to the racing than the income of the fans. Money has changed the sport but the drivers still race to win.

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
628 Posts
I have a slightly different take...as the cars and equipment have been equalized in NASCAR, it really emphasizes the team work! Jimmie Johnson lost any chance of winning due to miscues on pit road. Biffle lead 204 laps, but his team couldn't adjust the cars as the track changed after nightfall. Khane was near the front all night, but his team made the right adjustments and he was fast when it counted!

To win a race in NASCAR, everything has to fall your way: you have to qualify well, you have to avoid wrecks, you have to make the right adjustments, you have to be flawless on pit road...the whole team is involved and poor execution by any member can drop the team out of contention!

F1 is much more technology dependent. Each year one team nails the formula and dominates. F1 cars are technological marvels; driver skill is important as the tracks are tight with few passing opportunities.

Although Indy is an oval, the line is tight offering few passing opportunities and at the extreme speeds, bad things can happen in the blink of an eye (just ask JR Hildebrand of Takuma Sato).

Oval racing doesn't translate well to TV. The cars just look like they're cruising around, but they're really at the ragged edge of control.

That's my 2 cents!

Bob B.
Clifton Park, NY
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,527 Posts
My issue with NASCAR has to do with the frequency of yellow flags and how each yellow flag basically negates all that has happened before. While restarts are exciting, to me it is an artifical excitement. By this I mean when each yellow flag bunches the field back together, it undoes any lead which might have been built. It makes just about everything that happened before the last yellow flag unimportant.

I feel the same way about the regular season in pro sports. When the regular season is used almost exclusively to eliminate a few teams, it cheapens the regular season to the point of irrelevance. Come playoff time, the team with the best record gets one extra home game. So the whole season comes down to playing for one home game.

For me to watch an entire race, the whole race has to matter. If you are going to (artifically?) bunch up the field with only a few laps to go, then only the last few laps matter. Any lead built up over the previous xx miles is wiped out. In fact, the second place car starts right beside the first place car with maybe a half car length head start. Am I supposed to watch for 2-3 hours just to see who can get a half car head start?

Two rule changes would make it more exciting to me. (1) No pit stops on yellow flags and (2) the cars restart single file in the sequence they were running; that means there could be lapped cars between lead lap cars.

Let the whole race matter and let the race be decided on the track during green flag running. Watching lead changes on pit road during a yellow flag is not going to get me to be a fan.

As to Indy car and F1 - I find Indy car more exciting with far more passing. I have never found F1 interesting as it seems there are very few lead changes during the race. It might be very interesting from a technical point of view, but as a spectator, I find it boring.

Joe
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,219 Posts
Not taking the bait or feeding the flames, but I agree with AFXtoo and Grand Cheapskate, as I have in the past.

I watched F1 and Indy, as to me this is one of the best weekends for racing, and not just because on the stature of the races. In their respective series, the races at Monaco and Indiannapolis are VERY unique. I'm not overly thrilled with the new Indy cars, but the track itself and the qualifying/500 formats make for a pretty darn good race. With F1, there are new wings and aero tricks for every race. Ferrari started out awful, started getting their act together, and now Alonso leads in the championship. Watching those cars slide and slither on those bumpy streets with all that power is something. And they race when it rains..... Say what you will, there is a lot more driver skill and concentration involved in going fast on a bumpy street circuit, with intermittant showers, than on a consistent, smooth high banked oval.

Didn't watch Nascar, don't even know who won Talladega, let alone last night. With those cars, the short format/go for broke stuff would appeal to me most. Otherwise it is just extended too long for no good reason. Mechanical endurance is not an issue any more. I'd rather go out to the local dirt or asphalt track. As far as "side by side" racing goes, if all else is equal, the right feet hardly leave the throttle, and the steering wheel mostly just moves left lap after lap in each and every car, isn't that what you get?

With either F1 or Indy, I can watch the same drivers/cars/teams race on a variety of tracks in a variety of conditions, that's pretty cool. And with F1, somebody can roll out a new car in the middle of the season if they want to, or go back to the previous year's car if needed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32 Posts
I'd been an avid NASCAR fan since I was a kid. The sport has changed so much I don't go out of my way to see them anymore. It seems they've become less 'real people' friendly, choosing to cater to a much more homoginized audience. And big corporate money.

Almost every week, the only thing on any car that is the same is the driver's #. Its hard to pick out where cars are running when you don't know who you're looking at.

It didn't sit well with me when some years back, NASCAR started dropping tracks that had helped establish the sport to begin with in favor of the 1.5 mile cookie cutters. The difference in tracks was a big part of the appeal for me.

One track insisted that a 'track pack' of tickets be bought, refusing to sell single race tickets. This pack included Indy and NASCAR races.
Not only was it expensive, out of the reach of most people, but the fact is, some Stock Car fans don't like Indy racing and vice versa.
20,000 empty seats at a NASCAR event finally opened their eyes.

NASCAR finally started listening to the fans when (esp. over the past few years) more & more empty seats became lost revenue. In talking w/ other race fans, like me, they'd lost interest in a sport that had become 'sterile'
Questionably timed caution flags for 'debris',etc had become infuriating.

The only real spark was a couple years back when Tony Stewart blew up in an interview over tires, going to far as to imply the sport had become the equivalent of pro wrestling.

For a sport founded by moonshiners, they certainly try to deny where they've come from. Granted, the sport has changed and evolved in many positive ways, but putting a little grease and grunge back into the mix might not be a bad thing at all.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
218 Posts
A lot of great postings here and every one have valid points. I was born in 1947, in 1953 I was in Chicago and my uncle took us to a stock car race at Soldier Stadium. I was hooked,cars have been my whole life. Mostly hot rods and muscle cars. When my cousin raced his 47 ford at the local dirt track in the early 60`s, there were three numbers, his name and the name of the construction co. he worked for painted on the body and that was it. today`s race cars are nothing more than rolling billboards for corporate America. It`s a catch 22, teams need the money to race, but in doing so they`ve sold out, and are owned by wall street. The teams and drivers no longer have much to say about their own sport, especially in NASCAR. They follow the script or they get a spanking. NASCAR is the most hypocritical group I`ve ever heard. They love to promote the racing history of moonshine running beer drinking, brawling bunch of good ole boy`s. But give us a class of college educated, spit shined, media trained people who if they lose their tempers and swear on TV, or get into a fight, then they get punished for doing what NASCAR promotes them to be. Again just my .02 cents worth. Geed has ruined racing, or at least has brought it to where it is. If you want to see some good racin` go to your local go cart and watch the youngsters in the 5 year old class go at it.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,011 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
Thanks to all for your comments and thoughts... interesting views all. And all delivered in a civil manner with no need to flaming.
I especially enjoyed the attitude of "here is what I like and why" without any need to hammer on someone else's opinions.

Well done!

Gary
AKA LeeRoy98
www.marioncountyraceway.com
 
1 - 20 of 58 Posts
Top