Those defects you described above, must have been on cars made in America. The rusted out Hondas are a thing of the distant past, actually, rusted out ANY cars are pretty much history. Cars just don't rust like they used to. The Japanese corrected their mistakes and reaped the rewards at a time where American cars were subject to budget cutbacks and reliability problems.jimhowie2000 said:Here is the reality..........the Japanese cars get their "superior" rating because nobody bothers to look closely and scrutinize them as they do American cars. Everyone goes on the perception that they are superior and leaves it at that. I have taken notice lately and here is what I have found: Try finding a four door Japanese car where the door sill trim even remotely lines up, most do not. Try finding one with no orange peel in the paint, sorry, no can do. Try finding one where the bumper color matches the rest of the car....most do not there either. And I have also noticed the fabled Camry seems to have issues with wheelcovers that do not fit. And the American carmakers are always chastised for plastic cheap looking interiors...well, every Japanese car I have ever seen has cheapo, plastic interiors. I am old enough to remember Accords that rusted out within the first year on the road, Toyotas and Mazdas with head gasket issues, Nissans, Toyotas, Mazdas and Hondas that broke timing belts and turned the engines to scrap metal and who can forget those wonderful Toyota pickups that rust out at the pickup box welds? Come on, the Japanese have made their fair share of mistakes too, yet nobody keeps harping on those. They only know how to do so with cars made in this country. When Detroit had annual model changes they were chided for planned obscelecence. The Japanese have had model changes every 2 years now and it is branded as Technological innovation. OUr cars were getting wider, longer and heavier, it was wasteful. Japanese cars have steadily gotten wider, and heavier and more expensive, yet they do not get reprimanded for it. Their cars are notorious rusters, yet nobody seems to ever point that out. Here is my summation.......when was the last time you saw a Classic Toyota, Honda or Nissan? That's right, never! There is no such thing! I will admit, that right now, Detroit does not make much I would care to own. But I have never seen a Japanese car I would want to own, ever. They just look like garbage and always have.
Every manufacturer makes good'un and bad'uns. I buy American and mostly Ford. My 2003 Sable has 121,000 miles and gets more comfortable every mile. Original plugs, synthetic oil and filter change every 10,000 miles, air filter when required, tire rotation at 10,000 miles, trans service every 30k and except for horrendous brakes is one terrific car. My 95 Buick had 125,000 when I sold it and was still running well. Is that Focus a lemon? Probably but so was my brother-in-laws Accord. I buy American because I get terrific service from them and it's the right thing to do! :thumbsup:Mark Hosaflook said:Let me give you my take on perception VS. reality here. My wife bought a 2006 Focus wagon. Now, let me be the first to admit that I had no love for the car right out of the box because I was hoping she would opt for the Mustang. Up until this car I have had really good luck with Fords and the Escort wagon we had was perhaps the best running car we ever had. This Focus however is very different. In less than a year it's been recalled once. Taken back for non functioning rear seat belts, an electric rear window that is going bad and just this past month the center console busted. Since they have never been able to service the car the same day, I choose to show them the problem and have it ordered rather than drop the car off only to pick it up an hour later because no parts are on hand any more. I stopped in just this morning to ask where the part was. The service rep took my name and number and I still don't have an answer.
I know that's not too bad but here's the real kicker. My wife wanted me to change her air filter. I took a look at the car and honestly could NOT figure out how to do that (a first for me). I took it to my friend Rusty, a man who can swap out engines in his sleep and right away he said there was no way you could change it from the top. We put it on his lift and after some grunts and noises of disgust he said he would have to either remove the front inner fender or part of the tie-rod wheel section and it still looked like it was a special enclosed unit. FOR AN AIR FILTER???????
So I ask my friendly Ford rep if this is true. Get this, 500.00 to replace this "non serviceable unit" that has a little guage that tells you when it is dead. Fine for now but what then?
We were given two keys when we bought it. My daughter lost one. 45.00 for the key slug and 35.00 to program it. This did NOT include another door lock remote. The other cars I had dup keys made for .79 each at Walmart.
I agree -- Jap cars have never done anything for me stylistically. Jap bikes, however . . .jimhowie2000 said:. . . Detroit does not make much I would care to own. But I have never seen a Japanese car I would want to own, ever. They just look like garbage and always have.
Yeah that's right, wheelcovers! If they can't even get the cheapie plastic wheelcovers to fit right, then waht on earth would make me think things I can't see are done right? Sorry, I have had my sister borrow my Chevy far more times than I care to say when her crappy Honda Civic has been in the shop for ongoing transmission troubles. And as for Japanese cars not rusting.....you surely must not live in the midwest!CTWLSMIKE said:Those defects you described above, must have been on cars made in America. The rusted out Hondas are a thing of the distant past, actually, rusted out ANY cars are pretty much history. Cars just don't rust like they used to. The Japanese corrected their mistakes and reaped the rewards at a time where American cars were subject to budget cutbacks and reliability problems.
As for classic imports, most imports weren't made to become classics. They were made to put hundreds of thousands of miles on economically and be retired. A car of practicality, not collectibility.
I have noticed the cars getting bigger and bigger. That was just a reality of gas prices being reasonable. I would suspect they should start contracting a bit now that prices are so unstable but that remains to be seen. There were lots full of SUVs last year for a while when gas was $3+ per gallon.
Wheelcovers??? Wheelcovers??? Come on now I'd rather have a car with no wheel covers than a car that doesn't run when you need it most.
This is a debate that could go on forever, but it comes down to buy what you have had good luck with. But as Mark H. so eloquently pointed out, that isn't always a guarantee of success, either. :wave: Until Nissan fails me, and they haven't in the nearly 20 years I've owned them, I will stick with them. I'd rather have a car that looks like "garbage" that runs than a car that looks great waiting for a tow truck. :freak:
Maybe the wheelcovers were subcontracted to an American firm. :tongue: Maybe your sister is a bad driver.jimhowie2000 said:Yeah that's right, wheelcovers! If they can't even get the cheapie plastic wheelcovers to fit right, then waht on earth would make me think things I can't see are done right? Sorry, I have had my sister borrow my Chevy far more times than I care to say when her crappy Honda Civic has been in the shop for ongoing transmission troubles. And as for Japanese cars not rusting.....you surely must not live in the midwest!
Does it also have a 500.00 air filter?DadsCoronet said:OK, my turn. I have owned Subarus for many, many years. (haven't seen this brand mentioned in this thread, yet) I put a ton of miles on my cars but I also take care of them - oil & filter every 3K miles - regular tune-ups - timing belt every 60K miles. I sold my '98 Legacy wagon with 192K miles on it. Still running strong and the body had no rust. My wife still has her '02 Legacy w/ 94K miles and no problems whatsoever.
In December '05 I shopped for a new vehicle. This was before my son bought his own car and I wanted something bigger (he's 6'5") for him to get some driving experience in. The Legacy is a bit small for him. I DID NOT want an SUV. But, I had gotten used to all wheel drive. The answer? The 2006 Ford Five Hundred with AWD. Very roomy, very comfortable, plenty of power, better than my Subaru in the snow, and VERY tough! My Ford sustained a front end collision with only minor scratches on the bumper cover - the VW Jetta that hit me didn't fair as well :freak: . I'll admit, I was hesitant about buying an American car. So far, I've had 30K trouble free miles. :thumbsup:
BTW, Ford dealers wish Ford would advertise this car.
it is mostly perception.I`ve had plenty of camry`s and accords on my car lot and overall every chrysler product I had was in better shape for the age and miles.harry_ca said:A very interesting read... comments anyone?