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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Read this report on msnbc.com this morning, where the infamous "Dr.Z" discusses MB's plans for Chrysler. Seems like Chrysler is dragging Daimler Benz down the tubes, and they want to divest of it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17944679/

They paid $36 billion for it in 1998, and it's estimated worth today: zero to $13.7 billion. There is a rumored offer on the table from a Canadian group for $4.7 billion ...... talk about depreciation!!!!

Why so little? Well, Chrysler's assets (name value, factories, etc.) are far out-weighed by their liabilities, chief among them being a $19 billion debt to pay for health care benefits for retired unionized Chrysler workers. That's right, all the great deals the UAW got those guys are possibly going to kill the company these guys helped build.

Last year, Chrysler lost $1.5 billion. Think about that. They lost money on every car and truck they sold! This is what Lee Iaccoca saved them for, twenty years ago???

Let's see, five billion dollars divided by how many HT members ...... maybe instead of buying JL from RC2, we can pool our money and own a real car company?!!! :p :lol: :lol:
 

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carnut2256 said:
Why so little? Well, Chrysler's assets (name value, factories, etc.) are far out-weighed by their liabilities, chief among them being a $19 billion debt to pay for health care benefits for retired unionized Chrysler workers. That's right, all the great deals the UAW got those guys are possibly going to kill the company these guys helped build.
That's basically what's killing Ford and GM as well.
Don't be surprised if whoever does buy it, starts by going after the union. It also wouldn't shock me if the new owners cut the model lines down until there was nothing left but Jeeps and Dodge trucks. Once again, poor Jeep will get passed along from one owner to the next. :cry:
 

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Remember when they merged that Chrysler was the profitable company with the efficient
operating business that was trying to be copied by others in the auto industry. Mercedes just sucked all of the assets out of Chrysler as Mercedes had sub par cars in the mid 1990s. Now that Mercedes has stolen all of Chrysler's assets, they no longer need them. The Chrysler execs at the time had to know in the long run that this would be a bad deal for them.

The UAW are also part of the blame here. Maybe it's time for an Iaccoca figure to pull Chrysler back out of the hands of the grim reaper and turn the company around in the correct path again. Iaccoca in the early 1980s told the UAW that at the then current wages, they did not have a job. However, if they renegotiated the contracts for less money, they had a job. Looks like they are heading down that road again.

My two cents

crafty
 

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It really wasn't a "merger". They may have been polite, and they may have said all the right things, but it was a takeover. Almost all of the Chrysler execs were canned by the end of the first year.
As for the union, I don't think it's the wages, it's the health benefits. Until someone has the stones to address that issue, it will continue to wipe out businesses and individuals.
 

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Nothing new, big three has been hurting for a while.

Americans are brainwashed into believing that buying a Toyota will help our economy. Just because they are built here doesnt mean the money stays in the US... I know theres not manythings made in america these days or companys that dont have some kind of overseas relationship... But when it comes down to it, What you buy is what you support..and most americans today support what is best for them, missing the big picture.
 

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I disagree. Why should I support a crappy product? The United States was built on capitalism. Capitalism is based on selling a good product at a good price. The Detroit automakers failed in this while Toyota did not. That is the big picture.
 

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Ah it's the old American vs. foreign debate so lets get it settled before it gets ugly...

1. The is NO 'made in America' car. They all have an extremely high percentage (if not 100% for some) of foreign parts and the majority of so-called 'American' cars are assembled in Mexico, Canada, Japan, Korea, and China.

CHECK OUT THE ASSEMBLY STICKER ON ANY NEW AMERICAN CAR BEFORE SCREAMING 'BUY AMERICAN' for a real enlightening read...

2. Never dis the the foreign cars that are assembled in the US - the majority of the cost of a car is the labor and THAT money is going to American workers who put it back into our economy.

3. Quality - Hyundai/Kia (same company) after finding out their stuff was not doing well have now become second to Toyota in quality within only a few years (their resale still bites however). American cars have come up in quality over the years but still have not really 'worked' at it and remain pretty low on the list.

It's a global market folks and we all benefit from it, the alternative would literally be unaffordable as well as unacceptable to most of us.

And yes I drive a '05 Neon and '05 Ranger - and that Ranger is gone for a Toyota PU as soon as the wife gets a better job.

FLAME ON I SAY!! :)

Edit: I lied, Hyundai ranks #7 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17385761
 

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craftymore said:
Remember when they merged that Chrysler was the profitable company with the efficient
operating business that was trying to be copied by others in the auto industry. Mercedes just sucked all of the assets out of Chrysler as Mercedes had sub par cars in the mid 1990s. Now that Mercedes has stolen all of Chrysler's assets, they no longer need them. The Chrysler execs at the time had to know in the long run that this would be a bad deal for them.

The UAW are also part of the blame here. Maybe it's time for an Iaccoca figure to pull Chrysler back out of the hands of the grim reaper and turn the company around in the correct path again. Iaccoca in the early 1980s told the UAW that at the then current wages, they did not have a job. However, if they renegotiated the contracts for less money, they had a job. Looks like they are heading down that road again.

My two cents

crafty
WELL SAID.
I have to add that Chrysler quality is very good now,and a toyota doesn`t have better quality that a chrysler that is made now,it just takes the public to realize this and pay a little more for a chrysler product.They have always been one of the best looking on the road now they have the quality to match.They have been coming out with great product one after another, but toyota`s continue to sell better even though they recalled more toyota`s last year than they built. I see Kirk Kikorian and Iacocca going in together and picking DCX up,if mercedes is REALLY thinking of selling it,or they are just making a lot of buzz about it to help bring the stock up.
 

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Karl said:
CHECK OUT THE ASSEMBLY STICKER ON ANY NEW AMERICAN CAR BEFORE SCREAMING 'BUY AMERICAN' for a real enlightening read...
How true. It was an eye opener when I read that little sheet on the windshield of an '07 Charger. Most of it was made/assembled in Mexico or Canada I believe. One or the other, I can't remember.

Unfortuately, today's products from Ford and Chrysler have little design behind them. They frankly look like junk both in the interior and exterior. The only things that are making any money for them (Chrysler & Ford) are the F-150, Mustang for Ford and the Viper (maybe) and the 300C. Most of the new product just looks like a cut & paste job. Edge, the new Five Hundred, oh sorry, Taurus, Avenger, Compass, et al. The interiors anymore look like their cheaper than the previous model they replaced, especially on the current Dodge Ram. We own a 2004 model and it's WAAAAYYYY better than the current model. Sure, it may not have the fuel-saving MDS, but it's sure a lot better.

I would say something about Toyota, et al, but I figured that I'd already ripped enough on Ford & Chrysler for one day. At least GM is trying to come back from the bottom of the barrel.

Just my 2 cents. Now back to your regularly scheduled discussions...
 

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scrambler81 said:
That's basically what's killing Ford and GM as well.
Don't be surprised if whoever does buy it, starts by going after the union. It also wouldn't shock me if the new owners cut the model lines down until there was nothing left but Jeeps and Dodge trucks. Once again, poor Jeep will get passed along from one owner to the next. :cry:
I own a jeep and wouldn`t trade it for almost anything however I don`t see anyone buying DCX just to try and get jeep. It has had a downward spiral in sales since 1998-99. The only time they were booming was 1993-1997 when there wasn`t many other SUV`s on the road.Don`t believe me,drive down the road and count the # of 93-98 GC`s and then count all jeep`s made after 1998.
The current product offerings hava a lot more but the sales won`t be much for any of them.
 

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Atencio said:
I disagree. Why should I support a crappy product? The United States was built on capitalism. Capitalism is based on selling a good product at a good price. The Detroit automakers failed in this while Toyota did not. That is the big picture.
Not always true. I have only purchased new US cars. 5 since 93 and to date the only issues I had were brakes on a 98 Camaro that kept needing attention. My current ride, a 2001 Monte Carlo (I know, built in Canada) has 150,000 miles on it. 3400 v-6 still runs like it is new.
Like anything else you just have to maintain it. Only malfunction, an EGR valve. I know other folks who get the same reliability out of the big 3. Maintenance is a big deal.
Have always purchased domestic cars and always will.
 

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Atencio said:
I disagree. Why should I support a crappy product? The United States was built on capitalism. Capitalism is based on selling a good product at a good price. The Detroit automakers failed in this while Toyota did not. That is the big picture.
I agree with you on capitalism, but both the domestic and the foreign automakers have disadvantages. Sales have been dropping for the big three, and while foreign automakers like Toyota and Honda are doing very well, they also have problems. The only problem that I have with domestic cars is how so many look the same; take GM for example. They have so many different models and they all look so alike - vans, SUV's, or cars. They basically add something or change the panels and call it a different model. The only car by GM that I think is undoubtedly different is the C6 Corvette, which is what I drive. If you see one on the road, you don't have to look close to see what it is - you can distinctly tell it is a Corvette. It is built very well, fast, and gets 30+ MPG on the highway. I do give alot of credit to foreign automakers as well, however, because some of their products are very nice as well.

I am not a brand loyalist - I've owned makes and models of both domestic and foreign manufacturers. And, again, there are many advantages and disadvantages on both sides. It all comes to buy what you like! :thumbsup:
 

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FastC6Vette said:
I am not a brand loyalist - I've owned makes and models of both domestic and foreign manufacturers. And, again, there are many advantages and disadvantages on both sides. It all comes to buy what you like! :thumbsup:
I`m the opposite,I`m mopar or no car pretty much all the way even if they had the worst quality :freak: .However I`ve had to alter that just a tad,after owning my 3rd piece of junk pre-99 caravan`s[all 3 the trans went].I`ve had to go to the next best thing IMO,which is a yukon xl.Yes,it does sport a `mopar` tag and mopar stickers but I had no choice with 3 kids.I do see GM improving quite a bit this year and I hope they continue to do so becasue now that toyota has almost taken car sales they are now trying extremly hard to `push` the trucks off to people who still believe that toyota is unmatched in quality
Back to DCX,I personally say mercedes should try something,keep DCX and see if they can improve costs and sales.They have the money to do so,plus they already own them.
 

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96gsfan said:
Not always true. I have only purchased new US cars. 5 since 93 and to date the only issues I had were brakes on a 98 Camaro that kept needing attention. My current ride, a 2001 Monte Carlo (I know, built in Canada) has 150,000 miles on it. 3400 v-6 still runs like it is new.
Like anything else you just have to maintain it. Only malfunction, an EGR valve. I know other folks who get the same reliability out of the big 3. Maintenance is a big deal.
Have always purchased domestic cars and always will.
You are correct, not always true but:

If people got the same reliable product out of U.S. autos as they do from some of the foreign competition than their sales would not be slumping. Simple logic.
 

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I've got an '00 Grand Cherokee..it's been trouble free for 80k so far... I've looked at the 3rd generation models ('05+) and am not impressed with the interior compared to my '00. I've read the '08 gets an upgraded interior, looking forward to seeing them..

I've had domestics and imports (besides the Jeep, I have a '96 BMW M3 and an '87 Mustang GT)..the most trouble I've had with vehicles were with '80s Fords.

I'm not sure what my next car is going to be, I'm either going to replace the Jeep with a new SUV or keep it for winter use and buy a sports sedan for a daily driver..I'm looking forward to seeing the '08 Caddy CTS..it seems perfect for my tastes, though I also like the Acura TL and Infiniti G35.
 

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Unless it's an air cooled VW, there is no way you'll find me in a car from a foreign maker. It's the way I was raised, it's served me well over the years, so I'm not changing now. Deep down, I'm a Ford guy, but I've always had a soft spot for open topped Jeeps. When Jeep finally made a long wheelbase Wrangler, I knew they were thinking of me. ;) I put 60K on my 2004 Unlimited, including many trips through the Pine Barrens, and all it needed were brakes and a $30.00 sway bar link. I sold it last month, and picked up a 2005 Unlimited Rubicon, and I expect the same type of service.

BTW - I work for a large fleet leasing company with over 500,000 vehicles, and I can assure you, Toyotas break down too.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
scrambler81 said:
BTW - I work for a large fleet leasing company with over 500,000 vehicles, and I can assure you, Toyotas break down too.
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Actually, I've been in the auto parts sales field for many years, and people need to stop and realize just how many garages "specialize" in repairing Honda's and Toyota's specifically. Volvo's, too. It's an industry joke that these shops are always slammin' busy, yet Honda's and Toyota's never "break", right??? :cool: :p
 

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carnut2256 said:
Let's see, five billion dollars divided by how many HT members ...... maybe instead of buying JL from RC2, we can pool our money and own a real car company?!!! :p :lol: :lol:
Ok - so who are we going to buy, then? ;)
 

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carnut2256 said:
:eek: :eek: :eek:

Actually, I've been in the auto parts sales field for many years, and people need to stop and realize just how many garages "specialize" in repairing Honda's and Toyota's specifically. Volvo's, too. It's an industry joke that these shops are always slammin' busy, yet Honda's and Toyota's never "break", right??? :cool: :p
You also have to consider how many more Hondas and Toyotas are on the road then other makes. If they have 50% of the market share, more of them are going to break down then other makes.
 
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