Why?carnut2256 said:Unbelievable, just unbelievable..... how can someone have been so intoxicated to have done that to a friend and not even realize it, driving 12 miles home afterwards???? How did that bar ever serve him that much alcohol? Hope they're pursuing that end as well. The bar should be criminally responsible for this incident as much as the driver himself. Sad.
That's just it, he was that intoxicated. I remember an incident in which I was in that same state. I took a friend home twice in one night. When I stopped to let him out the second time is when I got scared because he wasn't in my car. I had already dropped him off. I'd been driving around trying to figure out where I was supposed to be going, and when I thought I had it figured out, I found out that I had already been there. I almost couldn't find my way home that night, and I have lived in this city all of my life. I have no memory of the route I took. I just remember trying to recall where it was that I was supposed to be going. It is very possible that at some point, this guy had no clue that his friend was even with him.carnut2256 said:...how can someone have been so intoxicated to have done that to a friend and not even realize it, ...
First of all, I never excused what this moron did. He is ultimately responsible for his actions. However, most states now have laws making bars legally responsible for how much they serve patrons, so that a bar doesn't shove as much booze at someone as they can pay for, regardless of the consequences.tystik73 said:Why?
They are called bartenders,not baby sitters.Why should any blame be taken off this clown and placed on someone else.I did the bar scene for a long time and in my prime I could be blacked out drunk and nobody would even be able to tell how messed up I really was.I got two D.U.I.s several years ago,the last one I was at a bar and a bartender friend of mine was pouring the drinks,I didn't call her asking her to bail me out.The police didn't care where I drank,it didn't matter,what mattered was I got in a car a drove when "I" shouldn't have.Nobody's fault but mine.
I guess what I'm trying to say is the world needs everyone to exercise and uphold the idea of personal responsibility instead of playing "not my/his fault" everytime something bad happens.As empathetic to this poor guy as I am,it still makes me mad to see anybody make excuses for him.
You make your choices and you live with the consequences.
I'm just saying that unless they want to breath test someone everytime they order a drink,thier judgment is all they have and some people can slip under thier radar.Some people are not so obvious even if they are extremely intoxicated.I am aware of the laws but still feel it's wrong to ask the average person (bartender) to be responsible for reading a total stranger's mental state.Some people can act very normal and be very intoxicated.carnut2256 said:First of all, I never excused what this moron did. He is ultimately responsible for his actions. However, most states now have laws making bars legally responsible for how much they serve patrons, so that a bar doesn't shove as much booze at someone as they can pay for, regardless of the consequences.
Do you mean to tell me that as a bartender, you hold no obligation for selling someone as much liqour as that and watch them stagger out of the bar, knowing that either one of them was going to get into a car and get turned loose on the roads that the rest of us have to drive on? Are you serious?
The bartender who served this "clown" deserves to be in the cell right next to him. The police do care which establishment got this "clown" all tanked up and watched him walk out their door. That bartender also has a "personal responsibility", and must live with the consequences of his actions, as well.
And what kind of "friend" served you enough booze to get bagged for DUI, and let you walk out her door and get into your car?
Ty, I think any mature, rational adult would agree ..... the blame doesn't lay with the farmer, or the beer manufacturer, or the distributor who sells the product to the bar .... those folks are doing so in the belief that it will be consumed by a responsible person..... the blame lays with the consumer who doesn't maintain control of his drinking, and in the case of a bar, with the person who keeps pushing the drinks at the consumer as long as he pushes the money back at him, regardless of how obliterated that patron may be getting (if that patron later died from alcohol poisoning, would not that bartender be criminally liable for serving him to excess?). And where the bartender knows that the patron is going to get into a car and drive, he is criminally responsible for helping that person get into that condition. To not acknowledge that is ..... nevermind, I've said enough ...tystik73 said:Well Carnut,
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.If the blame is placed on every person circumstantially contributing to another persons act then where does the liability end?
Is there a Hops farmer somewhere that should be calling his lawyer?