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Chances are the passenger was puking when he died.The driver is screwed,Cobb County is one of the worst places to have something like that happen,he will get the maximum penalties most likely.Imagine waking up to have a cop tell you your buddy is dead and your life is over too,with a world class post blackout hangover...One more reason I'm glad I quit drinking.
 

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This brings back a lot of bad memories. Fortunately, and I am very, very thankful for this none of those memories involved any deaths. However, there is much of my life that I have no memory of. I'm so glad those days are gone.
 

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Unbelievable, just unbelievable..... how can someone have been so intoxicated to have done that to a friend and not even realize it, driving 12 miles home afterwards???? How did that bar ever serve him that much alcohol? Hope they're pursuing that end as well. The bar should be criminally responsible for this incident as much as the driver himself. Sad.
 

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carnut2256 said:
Unbelievable, just unbelievable..... how can someone have been so intoxicated to have done that to a friend and not even realize it, driving 12 miles home afterwards???? How did that bar ever serve him that much alcohol? Hope they're pursuing that end as well. The bar should be criminally responsible for this incident as much as the driver himself. Sad.
Why?
They are called bartenders,not baby sitters.Why should any blame be taken off this clown and placed on someone else.I did the bar scene for a long time and in my prime I could be blacked out drunk and nobody would even be able to tell how messed up I really was.I got two D.U.I.s several years ago,the last one I was at a bar and a bartender friend of mine was pouring the drinks,I didn't call her asking her to bail me out.The police didn't care where I drank,it didn't matter,what mattered was I got in a car a drove when "I" shouldn't have.Nobody's fault but mine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the world needs everyone to exercise and uphold the idea of personal responsibility instead of playing "not my/his fault" everytime something bad happens.As empathetic to this poor guy as I am,it still makes me mad to see anybody make excuses for him.
You make your choices and you live with the consequences.
 

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carnut2256 said:
...how can someone have been so intoxicated to have done that to a friend and not even realize it, ...
That's just it, he was that intoxicated. I remember an incident in which I was in that same state. I took a friend home twice in one night. When I stopped to let him out the second time is when I got scared because he wasn't in my car. I had already dropped him off. I'd been driving around trying to figure out where I was supposed to be going, and when I thought I had it figured out, I found out that I had already been there. I almost couldn't find my way home that night, and I have lived in this city all of my life. I have no memory of the route I took. I just remember trying to recall where it was that I was supposed to be going. It is very possible that at some point, this guy had no clue that his friend was even with him.
 

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tystik73 said:
Why?
They are called bartenders,not baby sitters.Why should any blame be taken off this clown and placed on someone else.I did the bar scene for a long time and in my prime I could be blacked out drunk and nobody would even be able to tell how messed up I really was.I got two D.U.I.s several years ago,the last one I was at a bar and a bartender friend of mine was pouring the drinks,I didn't call her asking her to bail me out.The police didn't care where I drank,it didn't matter,what mattered was I got in a car a drove when "I" shouldn't have.Nobody's fault but mine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is the world needs everyone to exercise and uphold the idea of personal responsibility instead of playing "not my/his fault" everytime something bad happens.As empathetic to this poor guy as I am,it still makes me mad to see anybody make excuses for him.
You make your choices and you live with the consequences.
First of all, I never excused what this moron did. He is ultimately responsible for his actions. However, most states now have laws making bars legally responsible for how much they serve patrons, so that a bar doesn't shove as much booze at someone as they can pay for, regardless of the consequences.

Do you mean to tell me that as a bartender, you hold no obligation for selling someone as much liqour as that and watch them stagger out of the bar, knowing that either one of them was going to get into a car and get turned loose on the roads that the rest of us have to drive on? Are you serious?

The bartender who served this "clown" deserves to be in the cell right next to him. The police do care which establishment got this "clown" all tanked up and watched him walk out their door. That bartender also has a "personal responsibility", and must live with the consequences of his actions, as well.

And what kind of "friend" served you enough booze to get bagged for DUI, and let you walk out her door and get into your car?
 

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For the record, according to the local news here, The bar was a final stop in a long day of drinking for these guys. Apparently some drugs were involved as well.
 

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carnut2256 said:
First of all, I never excused what this moron did. He is ultimately responsible for his actions. However, most states now have laws making bars legally responsible for how much they serve patrons, so that a bar doesn't shove as much booze at someone as they can pay for, regardless of the consequences.

Do you mean to tell me that as a bartender, you hold no obligation for selling someone as much liqour as that and watch them stagger out of the bar, knowing that either one of them was going to get into a car and get turned loose on the roads that the rest of us have to drive on? Are you serious?

The bartender who served this "clown" deserves to be in the cell right next to him. The police do care which establishment got this "clown" all tanked up and watched him walk out their door. That bartender also has a "personal responsibility", and must live with the consequences of his actions, as well.

And what kind of "friend" served you enough booze to get bagged for DUI, and let you walk out her door and get into your car?
I'm just saying that unless they want to breath test someone everytime they order a drink,thier judgment is all they have and some people can slip under thier radar.Some people are not so obvious even if they are extremely intoxicated.I am aware of the laws but still feel it's wrong to ask the average person (bartender) to be responsible for reading a total stranger's mental state.Some people can act very normal and be very intoxicated.
It's not the bartenders job to follow you home.As for my friend she was doing her job,serving drinks and beer,any one of which will get you "bagged" for D.U.I in this state.It's not like you walk in a bar and order a drink,and then the person behind the counter is instantly responsible for the next 24hrs of your life.You are responsible for yourself,no one else.

Carnut this was in no way meant to be a personal thing against you just a comment on the general lack of personal responsibility in todays society.
You can blame the bartender...
You can blame the maker of the alcohol and drugs...
You can even blame the guy that hung that support wire...
But in the end it's still the drivers fault.
 

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I know they are, but I don't think bars or even bartenders should be responsible for how much someone drinks. If alcohol is so dangerous that someone else has to be responsible for how much a person drinks it should only be administered by a doctor, or just illegal all together.
 
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Dram shop is a legal term in the United States for laws covering the liability of people serving liquor Alcoholic beverages are drinks containing ethanol, popularly called alcohol.


Under dram shop liability laws, a party injured by an intoxicated person can sue establishments contributing to that person’s intoxication. Take two friends who go out drinking, get in a fight, and one punches the other. The injured friend can then sue the bar. Also, most dram shop laws cover serving alcohol to a minor. Thus in Texas, minors can sue a drinking establishment for their own injuries sustained while intoxicated. In other states, dram shop liability extends to serving the "habitually intoxicated." Accordingly, an alcoholic’s family can sue the bar that let him squander away the family’s savings.

The wide variety of dram shop laws across the states suggests that the extent to which bars may be blamed for a drunken person’s behavior gives some states pause. A couple of hold-out states impose no dram shop liability — most notably Nevada , whose tourist industry would probably go out of business otherwise. In another small group of states, such as Alabama , Alaska , and Michigan , liability is limited to illegal alcohol sales, such as serving minors or known alcoholics.
However, the vast majority of states allow for recovery when the defendant knew (or should have known) the customer was intoxicated — a fuzzy test in application. Some states have attempted to address this problem through more exacting tests. Missouri ’s recently revised dram shop law requires proof that the party demonstrates "significantly uncoordinated physical action or significant physical dysfunction." In Texas, a patron must be so obviously intoxicated that he presents a clear danger to himself and others.

On the other hand, in Massachusetts , a patron exhibiting "loud and vulgar" behavior was determined to be "visibly intoxicated," and a bar was sued for serving a customer who left, drank at two more bars, and then got into a car accident three hours later.

Under Illinois Illinois’ dram shop law, plaintiffs can recover after demonstrating: 1) proof of sale of alcohol to the patron; (2) injuries sustained by the patron; (3) proximate cause between the alcohol sale and intoxication; and (4) that intoxication was at least one cause of the third party damages. Notably absent from that list is that the defendant knew or should have known the patron was intoxicated, meaning that every person who sold the patron alcohol, whether or not he was intoxicated at the time, can face some degree of liability. Liability can then extend to casinos and convenience stores; one Illinois court allowed a lawsuit against a company that dropped off self-serve barrels of beer at a union picnic. At least one can appreciate Illinois’ courts' honesty in stating that the dram shop act is intended "to place responsibility for damages caused by intoxicants on those who profit from the sale of alcohol … [and] to protect the health, safety, and welfare of the people from the dangers of traffic in liquor."


And that's why my wife wouldn't sell liquor at Sam's Club, because just by selling it she could be guilty
 

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tystik, I didn't take it personally, it's that I strongly disagree with part of your position. Of course the ultimate responsibility rests with the individual, but the person serving is, and should be, responsible as well. A bartender sees plenty of drunks in their days, and while some people show it more than others, most bartenders can easily recognize someone who shouldn't be served another drink when they will knowingly be driving. They share in that responsibility.

And micyou, you can't be serious about that statement??? Of course alcohol can be that dangerous, it can impair your mental capabilities and physical dexterity, when mis-used. If it were "invented" today, it probably would be regulated as such.

I honestly enjoy a cocktail as much as the next guy, but watch what I drink if I'm driving. More people (like this idiot) should be that responsible, and more bartenders should take their responsibility more seriously. robmcin, thanks for the over-view of dram shop law, also.
 

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Well Carnut,
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.If the blame is placed on every person circumstantially contributing to another persons act then where does the liability end?
Is there a Hops farmer somewhere that should be calling his lawyer?

Robmicn thanks also for laying down the law,unfortunately like many laws these laws are more about money than who is actually,really responsible.The old attitude of "Well SOMEBODY's got to pay!,So we'll just go down the line till we hit money."

Society has just become way too litigious for our own good.
What a fine mess we've gotten ourselves into.
I"m done,thanks for a very well spoken discussion guys.
 

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tystik73 said:
Well Carnut,
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.If the blame is placed on every person circumstantially contributing to another persons act then where does the liability end?
Is there a Hops farmer somewhere that should be calling his lawyer?
Ty, I think any mature, rational adult would agree ..... the blame doesn't lay with the farmer, or the beer manufacturer, or the distributor who sells the product to the bar .... those folks are doing so in the belief that it will be consumed by a responsible person..... the blame lays with the consumer who doesn't maintain control of his drinking, and in the case of a bar, with the person who keeps pushing the drinks at the consumer as long as he pushes the money back at him, regardless of how obliterated that patron may be getting (if that patron later died from alcohol poisoning, would not that bartender be criminally liable for serving him to excess?). And where the bartender knows that the patron is going to get into a car and drive, he is criminally responsible for helping that person get into that condition. To not acknowledge that is ..... nevermind, I've said enough ...

the topic was little toy cars (somewhere along the line???)

(puts away the soapbox for another day)
 
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