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Discussion Starter #1
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New Coalition Launches to Fight Internet Sales Tax

RSVP for the WE R HERE Coalition Live Online Launch on September 12th at 1:00 PM EDT.

WE R HERE is a new alliance of small online retailers who are coming together to ensure that government policies create a fair marketplace for all retail businesses to thrive. They believe, as we do here at eBay Inc., that small businesses must be protected from the unfair sales tax collection burdens being proposed in Congress and supported by big-box retailers.
Several Main Street members have already joined the WE R HERE Coalition and a few will even be on camera during the live online launch event. We encourage you to watch the live online launch at 1:00 PM EDT on September 12, 2012 — RSVP at http://werherecoalition.org/launch.
You may also join the coalition at http://werherecoalition.org and participate any way you want, whether by sending a letter to your representatives in Congress, sharing your business story with the media, sharing the message with friends on social media, or just following along at home.
 

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This is for ALL people who buy ANYTHING online! This affects all of us who look for something cheaper, and more readily available without going to a store, and being disappointed for one reason, or another. Now the U.S. government wants to tax us completely to death with the last tax free frontier available! Say NO to online taxation. With all that the U.S. government already wastes on military, overseas, and frivolous spending to make other countries prosper - we don't need more taxation no matter what the cause! Most of the people who buy online do so from their own homes, and buy from sites like ebay. This will affect everything you do online regardless where you buy it if this legislation goes through. FIGHT the taxation of internet sales from not just small businesses, but also for regular people who don't want to get raped by the massively greedy U.S. government with MORE TAXATION!!! This also means that this new legislation will affect ALL THE MODELLING SITES INCLUDING THIS ONE! :(

~ Chris​
 

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Why not just elect officials who are against the wasteful war spending, etc? That would save FAR more money and make more sense, avoid massive problems stemming from those actions, etc. This tax would only cost maybe about $160 per year if you spend over $1,500 online each year, while war spending costs EACH American $12,000 each according to a study by Brown University!

And an online tax is designed to help local business compete with the giant retailers who sell in every state but do not pay sales taxes to those states. These giant online businesses profit greatly from these tax loopholes that cost smaller local businesses because they have to pay taxes. It's unfair competition.

Sean

From the LA TIMES:

California advocacy groups urge boycott of Amazon
Think Before You Click asks consumers to cancel their Amazon.com accounts until the company stops refusing to collect state taxes. California could collect about $1 billion a year on Internet sales.

Reporting from Sacramento — A coalition of health, welfare and social services advocates is calling for a boycott of Amazon.com Inc. until the Internet retailer drops a referendum to repeal a new law requiring it to collect sales taxes on Californians' purchases.

At a news conference Monday on the steps of the state Capitol, the Think Before You Click campaign asked shoppers to cancel accounts with the Seattle-based company. The group has launched a website, ThinkBeforeYouClickCA.org.

"The $200 million in annual revenue that California loses each year through Amazon's tax loophole would have been enough to prevent the $90-million cut from California's Adult Day Health Care program," said Nan Brasmer, president of the California Alliance for Retired Americans.

Campaign participants include Health Access, the Western Center on Law and Poverty, the California Immigrant Policy Center, and the California Partnership, which deals with seniors' health issues.

According to the state's tax collection agency, the Board of Equalization, California fails to collect about $1 billion a year in sales taxes from Internet purchases. As a result, online sellers such as Amazon and Overstock.com enjoy a significant price advantage over retailers that operate brick-and-mortar stores and collect sales tax that is remitted to the state.

Amazon is refusing to comply with a new law that requires online retailers to collect sales taxes, calling it unconstitutional and a barrier to interstate commerce. The company is gathering signatures for a proposed referendum that would ask voters next year to overturn the sales-tax law that took effect July 1.

Amazon should not be allowed to flout the California law at a time when billions of dollars in social, health, welfare and education spending have disappeared, activists said.

"Over the last four years, California has cut more than $15 billion from essential healthcare and human services programs. These cuts have cost our state much-needed jobs and have shifted responsibility for balancing the budget deficit onto the backs of the state's most vulnerable residents," said Jessica Lehman of Community Resources for Independent Living, which provides assistance to the disabled.

"In that same time, Amazon.com and other online retailers have made billions in profits. If Amazon is not willing to contribute to California, then why should we continue to contribute to Amazon?"

A spokesman for Amazon's referendum campaign did not address the boycott campaign. But Ned Wigglesworth of More Jobs Not Taxes criticized the California law for its potential to kill Internet-related "jobs when we need them for our economic recovery."

Boycott efforts toward Amazon might have trouble gaining wide public support, said industry analyst Jordan Rohan of Stifel Nicolaus in New York City.

"I'm not sure if the emotional appeal is enough to keep people from saving money," he said. "I don't know how much traction they're going to have on that."
 

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I think this thread will end up being deleted as it does strongly tend towards the political but while it is still here I would agree more with Sean even though I don't own a business. If I did own a small local business I would feel these online retailers do have a competitive edge and some sell really big ticket items where the tax becomes rather significant. I buy from my local store when they have what I want.
 

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I actually remember when there was NO sales tax.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Why not just elect officials who are against the wasteful war spending, etc? That would save FAR more money and make more sense, avoid massive problems stemming from those actions, etc. This tax would cost maybe about 160$ per year if you spent over 1500$ online each year. And it's designed to help local business compete with the giant retailers who sell in every state but do not pay sales taxes to those states. These giant online business profit greatly from these tax loopholes that cost smaller local business because they have to pay taxes. It's unfair competition.

Sean

From the LA TIMES:

California advocacy groups urge boycott of Amazon
Think Before You Click asks consumers to cancel their Amazon.com accounts until the company stops refusing to collect state taxes. California could collect about $1 billion a year on Internet sales.
I think this thread will end up being deleted as it does strongly tend towards the political but while it is still here I would agree more with Sean even though I don't own a business. If I did own a small local business I would feel these online retailers do have a competitive edge and some sell really big ticket items where the tax becomes rather significant. I buy from my local store when they have what I want.
You BOTH have just made my point! Why should CA make $1 billion dollars in internet sales tax? They have hollywood to make their money!! This affects EVERYONE ALL ACROSS THE BOARD, even those who are only selling a few items that don't cost much will STILL be taxed! Why!! What the hell is the point of punishing the many for the greedy few? Why don't they tax the air we breathe? It wouldn't be too hard - just put a mask over it with a meter on it, then if you don't pay - you die!! What's the difference?! Some states don't have property tax. Should we require them to start paying it just because other states do? Where does this greed end? Most of the people who sell online are individuals who are looking to sell something they no longer want, or can't use. You'll also see estate sales from time to time, but with all the money that's being wasted on paying taxes to make the goverment rich while we have people who can't afford to eat (Welfare), why do we need MORE taxation that will only go into the private pocket of politicians - they're the only ones that benefit from TAXES!! Wake up U.S. citizens of America - you're being taken advantage of!!! :rolleyes: Why is it that we're trillions of dollars in debt? Why does our government want to tax everything, while it still borrows money from other governments? Look at all the few wealthy famous people who are living the lap of luxury as well live like paupers living from paycheck to paycheck? Do you really think this is the right way to do things? Imagine if a lot of these taxes didn't exist how much more money you'd have in your pocket to buy models, or whatever hobbies you spend it on! Remember the saying? "Born free, taxed to death!"

"NO NEW TAXES!"

Quoted from George H. Bush
~ Chris​
 

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I have no problem with online vendors charging appropriate tax. As a retail business owner that was something that burned my butt when customers would say well they could buy XYZ mail order and not have to pay tax.

In a similar note a lot of EU and UK vendors even charge customers out of the EU or UK their country's VAT even though they are not supposed to. Better shops have different prices for sales made within or without the UK or EU. So if you live in England and buy something from an English site, you pay the appropriate VAT, but if you live in the USA they remove the VAT and you don't have to pay.
 

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You BOTH have just made my point! Why should CA make $1 billion dollars in internet sales tax? They have hollywood to make their money!! This affects EVERYONE ALL ACROSS THE BOARD, even those who are only selling a few items that don't cost much will STILL be taxed! Why!! What the hell is the point of punishing the many for the greedy few? Why don't they tax the air we breathe? It wouldn't be too hard - just put a mask over it with a meter on it, then if you don't pay - you die!! What's the difference?! Some states don't have property tax. Should we require them to start paying it just because other states do? Where does this greed end? Most of the people who sell online are individuals who are looking to sell something they no longer want, or can't use. You'll also see estate sales from time to time, but with all the money that's being wasted on paying taxes to make the goverment rich while we have people who can't afford to eat (Welfare), why do we need MORE taxation that will only go into the private pocket of politicians - they're the only ones that benefit from TAXES!! Wake up U.S. citizens of America - you're being taken advantage of!!! :rolleyes: Why is it that we're trillions of dollars in debt? Why does our government want to tax everything, while it still borrows money from other governments? Look at all the few wealthy famous people who are living the lap of luxury as well live like paupers living from paycheck to paycheck? Do you really think this is the right way to do things? Imagine if a lot of these taxes didn't exist how much more money you'd have in your pocket to buy models, or whatever hobbies you spend it on! Remember the saying? "Born free, taxed to death!"


~ Chris​
Well, no we didn't make your point. And other states have their revenue streams, as does CA with the movie industry (though that is not the main source of income here- it's agriculture, tourism, etc). So why should ANYone ever pay taxes then, by your reasoning? If we didn't pay taxes then we wouldn't have roads to drive to the hobby store, schools for our kids, a post office to deliver models to us when we ordered online, a fire department to put out fires when the lights in our Jupiter 2 kits get out of hand, or cops to protect us when the local bully wants to take your vintage Aurora Frankenstein kit home, etc. Seriously there are FAR bigger drains on our finances than a piddly tax we'd have to pay with an online purchase.

But why not complain to the companies who are fighting against paying their fair share in taxes and have forced this tax onto the rest of us? These big corporate powers are the ones guilty here. Or better yet, stop worrying about a tiny percentage of money we pay in a random purchase we may make online and worry about the truly massive wasteful war spending you mentioned in your first post that costs you $12,000 per year.

And worried about fairness but not worried that these multi-million dollar per year profit earning corporations are not paying their fair share in taxes?

Again, the point is that ALL local businesses have to pay sales tax (this is not any other kind of tax but sales tax) if your state has sales taxes. When online retailers, something relatively new to our world, sell in a state without paying sales taxes to that state then it makes it harder for local businesses to compete. And as online purchases become more the standard, then where is that lost state revenue supposed to come from?

Anyway- you can feel however you want, but we need to filter our opinions through fact, not what we chose to believe.

Sean
 

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Not only that but many states are suffering significantly because of the loss of sales tax revenues. I know in Florida schools are suffering and these schools prepare our children to make themselves a livelyhood in this country. And as Sean said, those lost sales taxes are hitting so many of the things you take for granted. I hate it when taxes are used for useless garbage or as perks but a huge portion goes to providing useful and necessary services.
 

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If we didn't pay taxes then we wouldn't have roads to drive to the hobby store, schools for our kids, a post office to deliver models to us when we ordered online, a fire department to put out fires when the lights in our Jupiter 2 kits get out of hand, or cops to protect us when the local bully wants to take your vintage Aurora Frankenstein kit home, etc.
Oh please...every time someone complains a little about exorbitantly high taxes someone trots out the old, "well we wouldn't have roads, bridges, schools, cops, or firefighters", with the insinuation that the person, (or company) complaining is just greedy or selfish. Funny how we've managed to have those things throughout history even when tax rates were much lower. It's also a little hard to swallow since a very small percentage of today's total tax money actually goes to pay for this stuff.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart

It's very hard to swallow when you consider the total tax bill of the average citizen is approaching 50% of their income, yet some still say it's not enough. I'm all for paying a fair amount of taxes for these things, and at the tax rate we have now we should have the best roads, bridges, schools, cops, etc., in the world. The fact that we don't and government still asks for more should tell us that something is way out of whack.

When you talk about the greedy few, I hope you are talking about the Washington D.C. crowd, who can't seem to get by without the latest/greatest military defense system. Or layers and layers of redundant bureaucrats who have good paying government jobs. Or school systems who pay scores of paper pushing administrators 6 figures while teachers barely scrape by. Or a healthcare system that charges $100 for an aspirin with the expectation that it's okay because government will pay for it.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
But why not complain to the companies who are fighting against paying their fair share in taxes and have forced this tax onto the rest of us? These big corporate powers are the ones guilty here. Or better yet, stop worrying about a tiny percentage of money we pay in a random purchase we may make online and worry about the truly massive wasteful war spending you mentioned in your first post that costs you $12,000 per year.

And worried about fairness but not worried that these multi-million dollar per year profit earning corporations are not paying their fair share in taxes?

Again, the point is that ALL local businesses have to pay sales tax (this is not any other kind of tax but sales tax) if your state has sales taxes. When online retailers, something relatively new to our world, sell in a state without paying sales taxes to that state then it makes it harder for local businesses to compete. And as online purchases become more the standard, then where is that lost state revenue supposed to come from?

Anyway- you can feel however you want, but we need to filter our opinions through fact, not what we chose to believe.

Sean
The more you talk, the more you PROVE my point!! The poster above me is the only one on this page other than myself who gets it! What you don't understand is that these online vendors also have to pay taxes regardless whether, or not you're aware of it. This is a FACT! They just don't have to pay taxes online for someone who buys it from another state. Why should they? So the same state that already has too much money to waste now should have even MORE money to waste? My mother is paid $1,500.00 each week, but only gets to spend about $600.00 of it because she has to pay the high cost of heathcare insurance, and the rest $300.00 goes to the government. She just turned 61 this year. She's almost retirement age, but she'll have to keep working until she's 80 because social security WON'T pay enough since there are so many that already get it - both in disability, and retirement!! Here's a not very pretty picture for you: $1,000,000,000.00 isn't a SMALL amount no matter where you come from! I don't know what world you live in, but in MY world that's a LOT of money for any state, and more so than they need when the taxes collected never go where they're supposed to. Our streets are in such a state of disrepair that after a succession of mayors that have overlooked this that the incumbent mayor is now stuck with the task of attempting to get the job done with the very same taxes wasted on a building in the downtown area instead of repairing desparately needed street repairs that should've been done a LONG time ago! What about all the people on evilbay, or the modeling forums who collect taxes on ONE sale? Would you rather they just keep them since they won't sell enough to justify it? NO FRIEND - I WOULDN'T! This, and many others who don't sell will STILL have to collect no matter how small the amount. :( This mostly affects online sales - meaning that not just brick, and mortar buildings that sell locally. The misappropriation of funds (taxes) by greedy politicians has caused taxes to go WAY out of proportion! Taxes were originally supposed to be abolished once our country settled itself, but as you can see THAT never happened, and it never will! :cry: Now taxes are only an excuse to justify forcing the common man to pay for the lavish lifestyle that politicians, and those associated with them now are able to afford in excess. YOU, your friends, and your family as well as mine are now paying for! Every time someone in politics gets a raise - taxes get a raise. Sound familiar? If they can't find a way to fund lifes' expendatures on a budget like everyone else, more taxes won't affect anything, but give greedy government officials even more money to throw away as they see fit! :drunk:

Oh please...every time someone complains a little about exorbitantly high taxes someone trots out the old, "well we wouldn't have roads, bridges, schools, cops, or firefighters", with the insinuation that the person, (or company) complaining is just greedy or selfish. Funny how we've managed to have those things throughout history even when tax rates were much lower. It's also a little hard to swallow since a very small percentage of today's total tax money actually goes to pay for this stuff.

http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/us_budget_pie_chart

It's very hard to swallow when you consider the total tax bill of the average citizen is approaching 50% of their income, yet some still say it's not enough. I'm all for paying a fair amount of taxes for these things, and at the tax rate we have now we should have the best roads, bridges, schools, cops, etc., in the world. The fact that we don't and government still asks for more should tell us that something is way out of whack.

When you talk about the greedy few, I hope you are talking about the Washington D.C. crowd, who can't seem to get by without the latest/greatest military defense system. Or layers and layers of redundant bureaucrats who have good paying government jobs. Or school systems who pay scores of paper pushing administrators 6 figures while teachers barely scrape by. Or a healthcare system that charges $100 for an aspirin with the expectation that it's okay because government will pay for it.
This is why I posted this. I'm hoping someone with some common sense that ISN'T brainwashed would see the light as well. I'm glad you did! The U.S. spends BILLIONS on government defense, but do any of you feel any safer after the incident on September 11 2001? I don't! THINK ABOUT IT, PEOPLE. Do more taxes make life better for those who pay them? I still have yet to see anything come from this since I NOW live in a low income neighborhood that USED to be respectable until all the ghetto trash moved in driving property values down as they move in, and out while trashing the neighborhood streets, and the rental houses they live! Tonight when you're eating your supper think how much money you've paid in taxes - money you'll never see again that you could've used, and how many HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS of DOLLARS that could've been used for schools, roads, and medicine that we now somehow don't have the money for although we pay the highest taxes in all the world!

~ Chris
(disgruntled taxpayer)​
 

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You know Dyonisis I take a bit of offense calling people who don't share your opinion "brainwashed" etc. I don't like taxes but I also realize that without them there are a lot of services and things you would never have. I don't want them to be outrageous either and I think there is a reasonable amount that should be asked of people. I can tell you although I certainly pay my fair share and don't hide my income or park my investments in tax free locations I definitely don't pay anywhere near 50% overall. I would guess something in the 20-30% range. I will read and understand what you stated and I may have a different opinion. I don't call you brain washed and I respect your opinion but I do disagree to a certain extent. So be it, I think this thread has turned definitely political and it is likely Hank will remove it.
 

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Yeah this has gotten out of control with Dyonosis and his anti-tax mania, and now calling people "brainwashed". Seriously Dyonisis keeps talking but isn't saying anything, he just keeps saying we prove his point when all we do is counter it. I guess he just isn't understanding what we write.

And, yes, without paying taxes then things don't get paid for. This ain't rocket science guys. Just because you want to believe a certain point of view doesn't make it so.

I'm outta here. Seriously not understanding why this BS is tolerated here when supposedly political posts aren't allowed. And now the insults. Real nice.

Sean
 

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Can't say I'm a fan of the tone Dio has set for this discussion, but I still hope attempts to collect state sales taxes for online sales never pass. If they do, it'll kill countless small businesses that, unlike Amazon, simply don't have the resources to deal with it and never will.

I think the benefits of individuals or small organizations conducting business online far outweigh the detriments of lost tax dollars, especially since I believe what those people do with their money (buy more inventory, pay for the daughter's dance lessons, etc.) is more valuable than what the government would do if they had to drop their efforts and go to work for someone else to get the bills paid.

Did the Internet kill the local hobby shop? I'm sure it didn't help, but I think Walmart and even Hobby Lobby did more to shut down those stores where I live ... plus the fact that what hobby stores traditionally sell bluntly aren't of much interest to as big a percentage of the population as they used to be. So, imagine how limited our hobby sources would be if the small-timers had to call it quits.

My very small business is one that might die. Believe me, I'd love to be able to set up a small shop somewhere and make a living selling my stuff face-to-face, and I wouldn't complain too bitterly about the sales taxes I'd have to pay my municipality and state. However, my potential customer base in the nearest city is no more than a few dozen people. The only way I can make it float is to sell online, and adding tax collections and payments to that workload — keeping track of each state's requirements, collecting and filing paperwork for those states with the tax payments — is more than I can hope to manage.
 

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Some posters are provocateurs, pure and simple. They are more interested in getting a reaction and drawing attention to themselves than they are in any actual communication or genuine discussion. They like to waste people's time and good will.
 

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Tax

I live in Oregon and we have no sales tax. We also hire people to pump gas at the gas stations...a great way to keep a lot of people employed.
"They" tell us that if we pump our own gas that it would reduce the cost at the pump. (Yah, right! For a few weeks maybe, then the price will rise again!)

Phil K
 

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OK, this has definitely strayed in to the arena of Politics, as well as Flaming comments.

No more of this sort in the future, 'kay?

Thanks.
 
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