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Helped a neighbor lady with a new lawnmower she just bought. Adding oil to the engine, the owners manual stated that you never have to change oil, but said that you must add oil when it gets low.:surprise: So after that, I put gas into the tank. And on the cap, had info saying that it is alright to use ethanol gas of no more than E15. I don't get it! Does this mean that ethanol based gas will not harm this engine? And what about the oil. Does this thing by design purposely use oil so that by adding oil keeps the oil always new?
 

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e 15 Never hurts engines.. it goes after plastic, rubber, other soft types of materials... and might add water/moisture to the sitting fuel...

I guess you have not been around many Newer types of cars... NO WAY to check the level of the automatic transmissions fluid... NO dip stick.. No level oil plug. No Way to tell if LOW on transmission fluid.

ONLY way.. remove transmission pan.. replace pan and add the amount of fluid called out in the manual...

No oil is lifetime... just a new way to sell another lawn mower in 4 to 5 years... Advertising in the Modern World.

do you know many new type of car engines do NOT have bearings.... no crankshaft/camshaft/rod ends bearings.. NONE.. like many lawn equipment engines...
 

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They are marketing to homeowners who are not mechanically inclined and may be leaning toward an electric mower. The electrics are getting better all the time.

Briggs claims the mfg tolerances are tighter than on other engines. I assume they think this will keep contamination from fuel and combustion gases way down.

There is no oil filter on these engines. I would ignore the no change advice and change it each year or every 50 hours.

The warrantee on the engine is two years. I am sure it will make it past 2 years with out an oil change. But if you want it to perform and last then change the oil.
 

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All air cooled engines consume oil, this is normal, so having to occasionally add oil is not unusual. Oil breaks down over a period of time, mostly due to the heating and cooling cycles the engine goes through, so periodic oil changes would still be good, if you want maximum life from the engine.
 

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e 15 Never hurts engines.. it goes after plastic, rubber, other soft types of materials... and might add water/moisture to the sitting fuel...
I digress...

Alcohol needs about a 5.5 stoichiometric ratio, and if you look at race car carbs that use straight alcohol, the jets are almost twice the size of those that run on straight race fuel. 2-strokes designed to run on a maximum of E10 or less will probably fail as a result. I had a unit 3 months old burn a hole in the piston from E15, they made mix using some of their race fuel alky, and I tested the fuel from the unit's tank.

Cite:
Fuel Comparison, Gasoline, Methanol, Nitromethane - SMOKEmUP.com
Ethanol Use in Power Equipment | Protect Your Engine & Carburetor | ECHO USA
 

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I digress...

Alcohol needs about a 5.5 stoichiometric ratio, and if you look at race car carbs that use straight alcohol, the jets are almost twice the size of those that run on straight race fuel. 2-strokes designed to run on a maximum of E10 or less will probably fail as a result. I had a unit 3 months old burn a hole in the piston from E15, they made mix using some of their race fuel alky, and I tested the fuel from the unit's tank.

Cite:
Fuel Comparison, Gasoline, Methanol, Nitromethane - SMOKEmUP.com
Ethanol Use in Power Equipment | Protect Your Engine & Carburetor | ECHO USA


I know there are possible changes needed (jets) but fuel injection is becoming Common on smaller and smaller engines...

and I have seen many more pistons "Holed" by owner screwdrivers then any type of fuel..

also anytime someone changes the type of fuel.. tuning is needed most of the time.. but the "E15" is bad is wrong.. just minor tuning is needed...

leaded to unleaded to e10 to e15... just like Cam2 to 94, 87

back in the day.. 13 to 1 running Sunoco 260... with 2 Four BBL's and a 4 speed. with a 30 over 409 and 4:56's on the street.
 

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Com'on, it's to increase throughput and sell more product. They wear out faster when you never change the oil and the lemming world we now live in can't figure that out. They think it's 'better'. What a crock. I change oil and the old school 'loose' engines last 10-12 years with me. I haven't bought a mower in 30 years now, instead rebuilding one I find at the curb that somebody else has tossed as junk.

Ford has been playing this same idea for years now in a different fashion. The computer makes the engines last to 300K+ miles so they come up with other ways to make them wear out faster. With them it's small nuisance items breaking that collectively add up to make owner want a new car even though old one could go much longer. Look at the new parts made now, you can commonly predict even where they will break and way early. Or try 5W-20 oil to make the engines wear out faster under the guise of saving fuel.

Different alcohols run stoichiometric at different ratios, methanol around 6/1 and ethanol (used in cars like E10 and up) is around 9/1. And what they tell you the fuel percentage is is often BS, here in Texas they test the fuel before any warranty work on cars, the E10 is often closer to 20% and instant denial of warranty if they find that in your gas tank. All the car dealers pretty much do that now.

To say ethanol never hurts engines is untrue, the water it invariably brings WILL and no way around that, why modern late engines have run the water temps up more, to drive out water via PCV by running temp at slightly over 212 degrees.

Myself, I haven't seen the car engine with no bottom end bearings yet. There absolutely is no such thing as 'lifetime' oil, however we are now surrounded by plenty who are gullible enough to think that. The leaving off of ATX dipsticks is just one more thing they are doing to make sure they steer as many to dealerships as they can. You haven't changed ATX fluid out completely since they quit supplying convertor drain plugs around the mid '80s, so trans wears out faster now while driver thinks it has all new fluid in it and pretty funny to me. Lifetime air filters at Ford PO'ed thousands when they found out they couldn't get a new one without spending $500 for an entire airbox system. The 'unitized parts' thing that has you commonly buying 50 parts to get the one cheap $2 part you need. You commonly cannot get simple nuts and bolts any longer, rather, you have to buy an entire assembly. Look at the big push a bit back about all OEMs going to Trade Commission trying to say that no owner ever should be able to run codes on their personal vehicle, that it was a 'violation of copyright'. Pretty soon the hoods will be bolted down and nobody getting into computer except dealers. Same on smaller lawn equipment. I can see leasing of mowers in the future rather than ownership......................

They talk all this talk of 'how much better they are built' while quietly doing everything they can to make the product fail in other ways fast to be able to sell more product. One either gets that or they don't.

Built better so you never have to change the oil, a perfect example of that and hilarious.

Not at my house.
 

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I never said I agree with the new B&S engine and never-change-the-oil, I merely cite them. I have owned new vehicles, with the dealer telling me I should change the oil at 7500 mi., and I look 'em in the eye, and say, "no, 3K like it should be, I don't care what Ford says." The real twist was when I traded one in complete with Duraguard filters and oil change receipts and a logbook, and they said, "we don't need that." To which I replied, "that tells me NEVER to buy a used car from you, as you don't care about past maintenance." I don't care about current leak-down tests etc., if an owner strived to take care of a vehicle, that's the one I want if buying used!

About the alcohol being over 10% and the replies, bottom line is the jetting/mixture richness MUST be changed proportionately, and that's my understanding OF OTHER PEOPLE'S research and information. I'm just the messenger, and as cited even ECHO indicates this. I've seen MANY PISTONS collapsed from 87 octane when 89 is called for, so I don't need an imagination to understand that alcohol in excess can damage a 2-stroke. 2-strokes are very different animals than 4-strokes. And yes, the water absorption is a BIG issue, and seems to have gotten worse since they started using corn alcohol. New Hampshire OUTLAWED corn-alky in fuel. Look it all up...
 

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P.S. I've seen forklift and other gaseous fueled engines that the oil looks clear as a bell with many hours on it. What I've been LED to believe is that the oil becomes acidic from combustion by-products, even with a gaseous fuel. In any case OIL is cheaper than an engine, so an ounce of prevention...
 

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It is all capitalistic marketing! If something never breaks or wears out they will go out of business. If they can get people use to things wearing out and buying new every few years they will meet their objective. We grew up hearing out parents say things don't last like they use to. We say it and our kids will just be use to it.

The big box stores sell thow-away mowers, and 2 cycle OPE at very competitive prices. With manufacturing in 3rd world countries they are lowering the prices every year. Or so it seems. I have spoken to so many that have said I don't want to spend $100 to fix something 5 yrs old when I can replace it with a new one for $199.

As I said earlier the Electrics will be taking market share over the coming years and Briggs is keenly aware of that.
 

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I still don't see electrics as having major impact yet, the battery issue is still unresolved. I though can often get essentially a new mower for $30 in parts and the work is fun. I just rebuilt 5 chainsaws given to me for like $15-20 each max. A couple were under that. Biggest cost is generally the chain. My most frequent breakage now is with the flimsy plastic parts they are now replacing oldschool aluminum ones with.
 

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I still don't see electrics as having major impact yet, the battery issue is still unresolved.
They will. I don't have a crystal ball to say when. But the industry is well aware of it. You see more electrics replacing 2 cycles right now. It is a slow transition but if you pay attention you will notice it.

Even push style reel mowers have become a bit more popular.
 

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My crystal ball is broken, but people BELIEVE they're going green with electric, while we all know in reality they're just moving the pollution from their yard to the electric plant. Electric has a place for sure, indoors, such as blowing out warehouses (PetCo approached me about STIHL), corporate atriums, around hospitals / retirement homes etc., and of course townships where noise abatement is in place. Of course other reasons abound, as many don't want the hassle of making mix, remembering to store it properly etc. General Electric make an electric tractor line that Wheel Horse ended up buying (the rights to etc.), called Elec-Trac. What a headache to work on! Many heavy batteries. Today's version is called a Raven, it's a generator on wheels (good for farmers), has electric spindles and motion drive. Does have a gas motor, which strictly powers the generator.
 
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