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Discussion Starter #21
Wow, love those details on the Nissan Z racer. I better go find one too. Thank you for the lovely pictures.

But as a reply to Sheldon, I think he might be referring to the $100+ "collector edition" that my friend's German contact is referring to. It could very well be rumors, but according to him the retail price in Germany for the regular version is 14.99 euros, and the 500 piece collector edition would top $100. And yes, for that kind of price on a 1/64 car I better see more engineering features and details that would rival larger scale models

Just as an example in terms of adding features and details, it would be equivalent to cramming loads of details into these 1/87 scale cars:
Audi R10

Ferrari F430 Challenge


Porsche 917

Toyota Celica

Zytek


Now these cars are actually priced in the $20+ range, but the craftsmanship, details, and accuracy truely justify the price. Let's hope that Minichamps will to up to this kind of quality.

Josh
 

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69Stang
I think you are being selective with your assessment of my postings. Please read ALL of my posts and you will see it is NOT all negative. In any case, whether anyone believes it or not, from an engineering standpoint it is FAR EASIER to place external details on a curbside than it is to maintain the detail, AND to also have opening panels.

From an engineering standpoint (yes, this is my profession), the cost difference to produce a medium detailed curbside ($2-$4/each) to a so called "high end" curbside ($10-$20/each) is NOT proportional to the extra retail cost. Therefore, a company can add all kinds of surface details to the curbside casting with nearly minimal investment... and whack us several orders of magnitude more money? Come one! If a manufacturer gets into the "high end" market, I EXPECT the same level of external/surface detail as these "collectibles", BUT I ALSO EXPECT a bit of detail under the hood, and maybe even inside the passenger cabin as well.

Now, the detail and features you see in an M2/SC is admirable, but they are still in the $4-$5 price range. If Kyosho/AutoArt/HighSpeed/Minchamps are charging $10-$20 per car with similar detail but *less* features than an M2/SC priced less than half.... where's the value in that?

Compare the HW Legends or 100% or GMP Corvette to these similarly priced Kyosho/Norev/CMs/AutoArt/HighSpeed/Minchamps, the details, craftsmanship in a HW/GMP is FAR superior (can back it up with direct comparisons - like the Ferrari 250GT or Enzo or CR6)... I have many of these models and close up they do NOT compare with the features to the HW/GMP - though they do come close in detail/finish, but NOT in features.

Let's face it, the engine is every bit an important element as is styling that makes a car "great". I LOVE seeing the engine/interior detail in a model, even more remarkable when miniaturized....

Additionally, I get VERY frustrated at companies like JL/GL, who have great subject matter, charge the same as M2/SC, but give us LESS in features, slightly less in detail.. frankly, they get a pass and should NOT (sort of like an affirmative action recipient - many of them actually believe they got into Harvard/Yale on their own merits rather than because of artificial quotas with "inflated" grades or ethnic/gender considerations).

Clarification:
1) Details.
paint job, fit, finish, intricacy in casting, etc.

2) Features
Opening panels, functional steering, miniaturized motors, etc.

Lastly, Kotetsu is dead on... how can a curbside 1/64 cost $100-$200 or more? If I am to pay this much, I want to see a subminiature functional electric motor, all opening panels, watch-like precision fitted panels, perfect finish... the works! And yes, I WOULD PAY FOR IT!!!

By the way, cars ARE "machines".. the root word stands for "moving" or something that moves or with moving parts...

On of these days, I will take some pictures of my collection and post some pix... just been lazy.:-(
 

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Sheldon, thank you for your post. Again, I find myself in agreement with you on many points. I enjoyed your articulate and well structured position.

Thank you for the time to respond. I always respect someone who can so clearly define thier position. You have given us food for thought for sure.

Ward
 

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Some people would rather...
spend $100 on 100 basic HWs

Some people would rather...
spend $100 on 10 $10 cars

Some people would rather...
spend $100 on one car

No one will convince a basic HWs collector that its better to have less
cars but have cars with greater detail...
they want quantity not neccessarily quality in detail.
Beauty, (quality in detail) is in the eyes of the beholder)

Collect what you like and enjoy what you've got :)

Denis
 

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Missing operational features of the car such as opening doors, hoods, etc.

I agree with Sheldon that the 100% HW Porsche is the nicest example of that car in 1/64. Overall though I find 100% HW to be hit and miss in quality.

My problem with opening doors and hoods is when the quality isn't up to stuff leaving gaps on doors or hoods that don't close properly. I have seen this with every brand. Also even if the door does close properly many models still have gaps showing. I find that opening doors and hoods detract from the lines of the car. This is especially distressing to me when it is a car with a beautiful form.

I agree with Denis. Us diecast collectors are all different. I know many guys who would refuse to ever pay $7.00-$10.00 for a 1/64 diecast. Some as seen on the M2 board want precise 1/64 diecast. Finally some like Sheldon want the opening features. Of course if we all agreed on this stuff our conversations would be pretty boring.

Myself. My favorite diecast are Kyosho, Biante, AutoArt, CM which gives you a hint on my need for doors and hoods.
 

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Atencio,

Your point about oversized gaps opening features is certainly true with inexpensive cars, and can occur with $4-$5 castings. Having said this and achieving the $4-$5 price point, M2/SC do a pretty good job. However, when we get into the $10-$20 price point, the gaps should be minimal since the margins are nearly double on the initial investment with engineering/development side.

Now, if we are talking about $100-$200 - as is Minichamps - this casting should have perfect lines, natural and 'to scale' gaps or 'watch precision'.. this can't be that tough for a "German" engineered product, the country that practically invented miniaturized machines like watches and much later, trains... all the chinese have to do is assemble the thing!

Now, as for people's tastes in various renditions of casting details/features, sure, there's room for everything. But, again, when we are talking about castings that exceed $10, I expect more... when we are talking about $100-$200 price points, I definitely expect a LOT more.

The only diecast company I think that would have enough *pride* to do it all - complete openings with minimal gaps, furious detail, and still charge $100 or more - is Exoto. But, unfortunately, they're in the 1/18th and 1/10th scale market for now despite announcements to the contrary.
 

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Exoto isn't even in the same league as other diecast. Their stuff is perfect. I am sure Exoto is proud of their product. I am sure that Biante is proud of their product. Far different products going to a very different customer base.

The customer will drive product development and the selling price. Kyosho, Biante, and AutoArt all sell curbside cars in 1/64. I think the 1/64 diecast community would all say they are beautiful and among the nicest diecast. I have seen very few that appreciate the cars balk at a $10.00 price tag. Rather it is the problem of access to buying them.

I like M2 and Shelby Diecast though I am starting to see quality issues with the former. However if I sit a Kyosho next to a M2 I don't care if the M2's doors open the Kyosho looks a 100 times better to me than the M2. When all is said and done the M2 still looks like a diecast car, the Kyosho looks like a replica.

A $100 Playart? Yeah I would have to agree with your opinions on that.
 

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Discussion Starter #29 (Edited)
I think we should give the Chinese a lot more credit. They don't simply assemble the pieces. They do in fact design, create, and tool many of the molds in China. For example, on the blister packs of many M2 diecast cars where there's a picture of a prototype mold there's a Chinese signature on there. Also, as evident in this web-article from GMP Diecast, http://gmpdiecast.com/about/build_1.cfm , they describe the process where Chinese engineers and skilled craftsman are involved in the design and mold making process.

Not only does the Chinese factories have the skill and know-how in producing fine replicas they have the added benefit of cheap labor and thus giving us collector affordable cars. No body will argue the engineering achivements of the Germans and Japanese when it comes to miniatures. But if all the cars are made in Germany or Japan how much do you think we'll be paying for our hobby?
 

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Discussion Starter #31

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Discussion Starter #34
Hi CarC, I'll be looking forward to those pictures! I've placed my order for a set of 6... can't wait to get them in my hands.
 

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Kotetsu, I see that you also collect 1/87 cars. Are those the only ones you have? I tried to buy a few but they quickly drained my hobby funds so I'm really happy to see somebody post them up here for us to see.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Ahh... I wish those were mine.... I simply can't afford those high end die-cast cars. They are just pictures that I've collected on the internet to throw into the discussion. The only 1/87 cars that I have are from Malibu International, AKA High Speed. I'm sure you are familiar with them. I think I have 60+ of those little cars, but many are duplicates in different colors.
 

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Discussion Starter #37
10/12/09: Just saw pictures of Minichamps' 1/64 limited series on a Japanese website. They are limited to a much lower production run than the regular 1/64 line. I'm not exactly sure how much they are priced except they are much more expensive. So far there are:

Alfa Romeo 8C Competizione 2003 in red and black, 1200pcs each
Alfa Romeo 8C Spider 2008 in metalic red and white, 1200 pcs each
Fiat 500 1957 blue w/close roof and white w/open roof, 1500pcs each
Fiat 500 Abarth 2007 white (1800 pcs) and blue (1200 pcs)

From the pictures the Alfas look identical to the regular release. Not sure why they are special and more expensive.





The old Fiat 500 wasn't in the initial announcement of the Minichamps 1/64 series. I wonder if they have more surprises at hand.... perhaps a few more color variations of the exisitng 1/64 cars. Maybe they'll have the black Bentley that I wanted.
Josh
 

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Nice, I doubt if I'll ever get those. The red Alfas look the same as the regular ones.

I did see a white 8c somewhere.

Hope they make a fiat 500 with the Ferrari livery
 
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