[davz]

I am getting tired of running the cars where you hold the throttle for 4 minutes. You lift, you lose. You have to run full-on-mod to get to the point where lifting the throttle is the fastest way to get through the corners.
We have to figure out a way to make the driving come back and slow down lap times while still making it fun to race a fast car.

What about changing the shape,/configuration trend of the oval tracks? Maybe a narrow front straight, and wide back straightaway ?
I'm just throwing some ideas out there.

Maybe a regulated right front tire which is widely accepted. Guys are mentioning handout tires, what about a handout right front only? It wouldn't be that hard to implement even at local events. The race director would just have to make sure he had one rf tire for each entry every week? Buy them in bulk. Each track could select the compound they want to run at their track. Make it a unique rim in multiple colors so that copies would be a breeze to tech. You could tell just by looking at the car. It could be a 2.15 diameter rim or something. if you could only run that rim and tire on the RF at that track, and run the status quo rims and tires on the other 3, it would virtually eliminate the small tire syndrome.
Us racers wouldn't even buy RF tires, which is most of my tire wear.
The grip that the cars have has surpassed the speeds that people can reasonably handle. Even if you can handle super duper mod, the cars can't hold up without having to build a new car every week. And if you hit anything its over.

What does everybody think?

I don't want to make this a controversial thread, I'm not going on a rant, but we need to do something that is small and cheap to make pan car oval better and more fun for more people, which means race turnouts.

I was planning on running 17.5 open this coming season, but I am constantly wanting to run the faster 13.5 open. Wings, tearing up bodies, tire wear city, having the car handling spot on or you have to just pull the car in the pits. That is the racing that feels like the most fun to me, but not many people can handle it well enough to be capable of winning. That's what we all shoot for every week. Just having a chance to win is enough for almost all racers to have fun.

Dave Z.

 

[BADDOG17]

Your heart and head are in the right place. But I have found its hard to turn back the clock on progress. I think the art of set ups has came a long way. And the cars these days are really good. Going back to the KSG Gen 1. The cars are really built well and can handle high speeds trough the corners.

I see todays racing on the high speed carpet tracks to be like racing NASCAR @ Daytona. Except the draft cant bring ya back to the pack.

I think the rules for tires will be hard to tech. The stripe is the best way to tech a tire since anyone could buy a rim and go home and put any foam on it. And we know someone would.

Spec tires in the future..I can see it. And I would go with it.

Localy we race a short flat asphalt. The tire of choice are 3 pinks and a Team Purple RF. We do have to lift. And racing is fun. The same guys who run fast on the carpet are up front here too.

I dont mind going to spec tires even if its the standard tire we use now but spec them for 13.5, 10.5. spec differant tires for 13.5 spec and 17.5 open ect ect.

I am sure the BRL and Tour guy are constantly talking about these same issues. I am confident that after this season there will be some adjustments to attemp to make things easier on everyone.

After all NASCAR has spec tires @ every race.

 

[davz]

If the rubber was a pretty hard compound, (like a SUPER hard purple), you could tell good enough to make a call to tech it. just have a durometer. Anything under 75 is not allowed. I think durometers are only 40 or 50 bucks.
It's not like you have to walk up to the line and do each car every round. If guys have their cars set up for the hard tire, putting a softer tire on to shoot for TQ wouldn't work..... They would just spin out.

I don't really like the idea of spec tires all the way around. Just the RF.

Go out and put a double purple or a double black on your car with no tire dope on it and you will instantly see what my idea would do. Then set your car up for that and put a team purple on with tire dope. Guarantee you will spin out. Guys won't be able to defeat this rule.

 

[Andy Koback]

I think there already is a class for this purpose...it's called "Bomber"!!!

 

[BADDOG17]

If the rubber was a pretty hard compound, (like a SUPER hard purple), you could tell good enough to make a call to tech it. just have a durometer. Anything under 75 is not allowed. I think durometers are only 40 or 50 bucks.
It's not like you have to walk up to the line and do each car every round. If guys have their cars set up for the hard tire, putting a softer tire on to shoot for TQ wouldn't work..... They would just spin out.

I don't really like the idea of spec tires all the way around. Just the RF.

Go out and put a double purple or a double black on your car with no tire dope on it and you will instantly see what my idea would do. Then set your car up for that and put a team purple on with tire dope. Guarantee you will spin out. Guys won't be able to defeat this rule.

I hear ya. I still think even if you went that way a stripe would be in order to make tech easy. I don't know if the strip is a big deal for the manufactures or not. Even if it did come about people would be chasing tires all around the car to make up for it....then the complaints would start about the cost of that. SO if your going to spec tires its almost easier to do all 4 then no one has to try anything differant...costs go down.

And I have ran double purples in the past. (Just cause I was scared of tration rolling.) :drunk: I wasn't very fast.

 

[DrtRcrM87]

Davz,I know you posted cheap,and easy,BUT............2S would put some grunt back in the mix.I know,I know.......tire wear and all the other stuff that goes with it. What about all running a COT body??Yes?? No?? That should loosen ya's up a little................

 

[racin17]

1 black rf. 1 white lf. 1 white rr. 1 pearl lr all bsr. 37$. 4 spec tires 34$. What are really saving? 3-5$ for 1 set of tires. I have said it before i dont think you will get dq'd for having spec tires on your open car or a 70 durometer rf if you can make it work and save YOURSELF money do it. We finally are getting stability in racing again lets leave it the way it is.

 

[swtour]

I always see some crazy ideas - so here's a crazy package...

3/4" wide Front Double BLUE tires, and 1.00" wide GREEN Rear Tires
Rear Tracking Width (Outside of Tire to Outside of Tire 7.75" MIN / 8.00" MAX)

FOAM Only - No Naturals, No Exotics

Min Diameter Wheel 2.00 inch
Min Diameter Tire 2.25

Mandatory 2.00" rear Spoiler - No WINGS
No HIGH DOWNFORCE Noses on Bodies

Spec RF Spring (.024" wire)

T-Plate Cars - NO LINK CARS - No Rear Side Shocks/Springs - TWEAK SCREWS ONLY - No rolled springs or other type of spring/torsion on rear side suspension. (Single Damper Tube ok)

Don't make the cars loose - make them VERY tight.

 

[davz]

1 black rf. 1 white lf. 1 white rr. 1 pearl lr all bsr. 37$. 4 spec tires 34$. What are really saving? 3-5$ for 1 set of tires. I have said it before i dont think you will get dq'd for having spec tires on your open car or a 70 durometer rf if you can make it work and save YOURSELF money do it. We finally are getting stability in racing again lets leave it the way it is.

It's not about trying to save money, although that would be nice. I know you can put any tire on that you want, but not if you want to win. I just think we need to make the racing better. I ran 13.5 open last year and won and TQ'd plenty of races. I think the main reason our class got so small is that as soon as someone would jump in, they would get beat by 3-4 laps. I was cutting the RF tire down to 2.01 and throw it out at 1.95. It only took 2 runs to kill that tire. Even in 13.5 open, we held the throttle all the way around the track for 4 minutes. That's what guys don't like about 17.5.

 

[dmayhew25]

I was cutting the RF tire down to 2.01 and throw it out at 1.95. It only took 2 runs to kill that tire. Even in 13.5 open, we held the throttle all the way around the track for 4 minutes. That's what guys don't like about 17.5.

If you were cutting your tires to 2.01 you cut right past the fastest part of the tire! We run 13.5 weekly with a FAST group of guys and we ALL start our tires around 2.12-2.13 on the RF. They run almost the same speed all the way till around 2.01 or so. Then they fall off after that, which is usually 3 days of racing running 3 heats and mains. That isn't with much practice though either. I'm just saying the tires last a while if the car setup is close and the track has grip. The best thing a track owner can do is spray a bottle of sticky fingers on the track before anyone runs and have a few cars run it in so to speak and the bite comes up and tires wear goes down.

As for the lifting, we lift in 10.5 and occasionally up front in 13.5. I agree running Mod is awesome becuase you have to lift. It's hard to run mod when the tracks dont have a lot of grip but it sure is AWESOME when you can! I'm not sure what you can do to bring back lifting since the technology has come so far and guys are getting better and better with setup.

I also see that everyone talks about making the cars harder to drive so you have to lift and then when they are and grip is down at the track they all spin and crash more becuase car setup becomes even more critical. Its a double edge sword and in the end there are classes that you have to lift in, MOD, and others that you kinda have to 10.5 and 13.5 and others if you do your going to be in the back, 17.5 and truck. If you like lifting, find a few others that do to and run that class. I personally think the classes are great now as you have a full range of speed and the rules have been the same for years and hopefully continue that way.

 

[Andy Koback]

If you were cutting your tires to 2.01 you cut right past the fastest part of the tire! We run 13.5 weekly with a FAST group of guys and we ALL start our tires around 2.12-2.13 on the RF. They run almost the same speed all the way till around 2.01 or so. Then they fall off after that, which is usually 3 days of racing running 3 heats and mains. That isn't with much practice though either. I'm just saying the tires last a while if the car setup is close and the track has grip. The best thing a track owner can do is spray a bottle of sticky fingers on the track before anyone runs and have a few cars run it in so to speak and the bite comes up and tires wear goes down.

As for the lifting, we lift in 10.5 and occasionally up front in 13.5. I agree running Mod is awesome becuase you have to lift. It's hard to run mod when the tracks dont have a lot of grip but it sure is AWESOME when you can! I'm not sure what you can do to bring back lifting since the technology has come so far and guys are getting better and better with setup.

I also see that everyone talks about making the cars harder to drive so you have to lift and then when they are and grip is down at the track they all spin and crash more becuase car setup becomes even more critical. Its a double edge sword and in the end there are classes that you have to lift in, MOD, and others that you kinda have to 10.5 and 13.5 and others if you do your going to be in the back, 17.5 and truck. If you like lifting, find a few others that do to and run that class. I personally think the classes are great now as you have a full range of speed and the rules have been the same for years and hopefully continue that way.

That's just what I was gonna say!!! :thumbsup:

 

[Monti007]

I always see some crazy ideas - so here's a crazy package...

3/4" wide Front Double BLUE tires, and 1.00" wide GREEN Rear Tires
Rear Tracking Width (Outside of Tire to Outside of Tire 7.75" MIN / 8.00" MAX)

FOAM Only - No Naturals, No Exoticst.

You can no longer make or buy Blue/green foam tires. The company that made that kind of foam went out of Business. As for Foam only tires that is what the white family of foam is already. I never understood why people call it exotic it's just foam anyway.

Monti

 

[tweakedt3]

Is the right front tire wear attributed to excesive chassis roll with the less left side weight that we have now?If you dont have to lift in the corners, you are either scrubbing speed enhancing tire wear, or you are one of the few who found something that worked. The old round cell, even the 2s kept the left down, keeping weight transfer down? Withthe number of spec tired classes out there, is there need of another one? Oval's attendence numbers are on the rise, why do something to drive that down at any level. The rules that are "standard" now in spec class racing has me racing again after 5 years of not racing.

 

[swtour]

Monti - "WE" only call it what ever the source has called it - "We" don't know... it's ALL foam to me - going all the way back to the Atlantic Gomme tires associated imported, and the old HPI imported letter code stuff.

I only refer to it as blue and green vs the other, cause it was the CHEAPEST per donut of the bunch, but it wore out in a hurry.

As far as

Pink, Purple, Lilac, Team Purple Double Pink, Double Purple, Triple, etc... it's all black foamy stuff - never been sure why 1/10th scale isn't done in Shore / Traction / Wear ratings or something vs COLOR.

 

[ScottH]

Pink, Purple, Lilac, Team Purple Double Pink, Double Purple, Triple, etc... it's all black foamy stuff - never been sure why 1/10th scale isn't done in Shore / Traction / Wear ratings or something vs COLOR.

Because back when you and I started Joe, when the cars ran on coal and steam power , the first tires were blue and green. I do remember seeing the yellows some and then there were the Delta Golds, AJ black..blah blah blah.

Keep up the good fight!

 

[Outlaw 44]

Back in the day when we had to lift, we were running 6 cell stock. Mind you the cars weighed alot more. Plus the bodies we ran didn't have all the downforce that we enjoy now. That could explain the fact that we had to lift. It was fun, but we wore tires like crazy.

 

[dmayhew25]

Back in the day when we had to lift, we were running 6 cell stock. Mind you the cars weighed alot more. Plus the bodies we ran didn't have all the downforce that we enjoy now. That could explain the fact that we had to lift. It was fun, but we wore tires like crazy.

I can tell you that adding weight doesn't change anything with the new cars. They react a little slower and slow down but that is about it. Good cars still go through the corners better, still no lifting, tires wear the same and the softer tires are still better. We ran the last month at 42oz and nothing reallly changed at all except to have decent speed you had to go back down a wind on the motor to keep about the same speed.

 

[Monti007]

Monti - "WE" only call it what ever the source has called it - "We" don't know... it's ALL foam to me - going all the way back to the Atlantic Gomme tires associated imported, and the old HPI imported letter code stuff.

I only refer to it as blue and green vs the other, cause it was the CHEAPEST per donut of the bunch, but it wore out in a hurry.

As far as

Pink, Purple, Lilac, Team Purple Double Pink, Double Purple, Triple, etc... it's all black foamy stuff - never been sure why 1/10th scale isn't done in Shore / Traction / Wear ratings or something vs COLOR.

So that everyone can learn;

BSR has never referred to the white family of foam as "exotic" as far as I know. In fact I know John and my self have had this conversation before on why people call white foam "exotic" and we didn't understand but never said anything to correct them. Not that it's needed anyone can call it what ever they like.

As for blue and green foam at one point many moons ago it was cheaper to buy and make tires out of. However with in the last 10 years it was available it cost more money to make tires out of than pink or white tires. The reason why the price never went up is because it was looked at as a lesser foam that did wear quicker and the market dictated a price that should be cheaper. So as to not upset the apple cart tire companies never raised the price of their blue or green foam tires.

As for shore ratings it's simple just make your self a chart and then you would know. Shore ratings are used in gas racing but they also use a higher rubber content foam for the front and purple foam for the rear since it doesnt wear as fast. Also in gas racing most times no one runs rear tires in the front or front tires in the rear so it's easy to use a shore number to describe the foam. You would need to figure out how to describe the difference between a white that measures 30 shore and pink that measures 30 shore. You can't call them both 30 that would not work. So companies have came up with a color system based on their shore ratings. Now you could do this for just pink tires using shore ratings but using colors for carpet racing is easier and has almost no confusion between the two types of foam. However if want to make a list of shore ratings so its easier for you, go for it I am sure some one else would like one too.

Monti

 

[Monti007]

David,


If you want to lift more put a red L prolite cap tire on the RF part number B2003. Anything short of doing that will not matter. Sorry.

Monti

 

[JimmyMack12]

1 black rf. 1 white lf. 1 white rr. 1 pearl lr all bsr. 37$. 4 spec tires 34$.

Yeah, *if* you can find some place that sells "single tires". Most places only sell the pair, so double that first price to $74, plus shipping (if you buy online).

Do you know someplace that sells foam pan-car tires in singles? Please share if you do