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There is an interesting thread in the Arcor forum about the car of the future and the use of LiPo batteries.
What do the BRL racers think about LiPo batteries? Has anyone tried them?
 

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The cell voltage does not work well for the motors and class structure we have at the moment.

I believe there are some more promising cells for us than Lipo. We won't be using NiMH forever, but I doubt we'll ever be running LiPo either.
 

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I think LiPo's are definitely coming. ARCOR is starting a class this fall using brushless and lipo's. It's not an entry level class though. It's a mod class of some design. 3200 or 4800mah lipo's and Novak velociti motors or something like that.

It's coming sooner or later.
 

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OvalTrucker said:
I think LiPo's are definitely coming. ARCOR is starting a class this fall using brushless and lipo's. It's not an entry level class though. It's a mod class of some design. 3200 or 4800mah lipo's and Novak velociti motors or something like that.

It's coming sooner or later.

Well I wouldn't necessarily say that an ARCOR class means anything. Their logic is having the cars go 55 mph around a 130'ft carpet oval will "put the fun back in racing". I'm frankly not seeing it.

At the moment the lipos aren't very realistic for us in my opinion.
 

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pmsimkins said:
Well I wouldn't necessarily say that an ARCOR class means anything. Their logic is having the cars go 55 mph around a 130'ft carpet oval will "put the fun back in racing". I'm frankly not seeing it.

At the moment the lipos aren't very realistic for us in my opinion.
ARCOR means about as much as BRL, except ARCOR is looking to the future. Frankly, I'll stick with the organization that has an open mind.
 

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why not solid rocket boosters on the cars that would be cool ;)
 

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Rickity Racer said:
ARCOR means about as much as BRL, except ARCOR is looking to the future. Frankly, I'll stick with the organization that has an open mind.
It's a little foolish to bad mouth one organization in favor of another. My point is that just because an organization creates a class does not mean it's the wave of the future for everyone. Besides for all you or I know there could be a LiPo class in the BRL next year. The difference is the class will be tested and thought out before it hits the BRL rule books.

Until there is a 1 cell pack out there that will work for us LiPo may not be especially big. If the majority of guys thought that racing at about mach 7 was fun then you wouldn't see the same 10 guys running mod at every big event.
 

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The voltage thing isn't that big a deal. The GTB and the SS has a provision to limit voltage. This could be used for stock. As for the rest, We might be able to use 13.5 and lipo's as an equal to 19t. I have heard in the past that our battery development is based on power tools. Have you seen the direction power tools are going? Better get ready to buy a lipo. :)
 

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gezer2u said:
The voltage thing isn't that big a deal. The GTB and the SS has a provision to limit voltage. This could be used for stock. As for the rest, We might be able to use 13.5 and lipo's as an equal to 19t. I have heard in the past that our battery development is based on power tools. Have you seen the direction power tools are going? Better get ready to buy a lipo. :)
There is no voltage regulator in the GTB or SS. There is a provision to limit the RPMs of the motor in the SS. I'm not sure if that carried into the GTB or not, but it frankly is not an overly useful feature for this.

Not everyone wants to run 19T speed unfortunately. I'm not sure if you've run 13.5 or not, but you might be surprised at how close it is to 19T even with 4 cell NiMH.

I'm not down on LiPo but we need to campaign for a better solution for us oval guys. Either 1 cell packs or higher turn BL motors. Maybe the crawler motor Novak has would work? If the "slowest" class in the future becomes faster than our current 19T class then we will have big problems.
 

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Have you seen the direction power tools are going? Better get ready to buy a lipo.
yeah...they are either Li-Ion or still only 3000 MAH (I'd love to shove some 4200's in my MAKITA IMPACT Driver...that thing would remove WHEELS and TIRES)
 

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I think the biggest thing that will drive LiPo's INTO R/C Racing...is the demand from the RACERS themselves.

NEW Products come out...RACERS BUY them...and then Urge the organizations they are involved with to give them a try.

If an organization doesn't give them a try...a NEW organization is created that does.

ARCOR - created with OVAL Racers in Mind
GASCAR - created for OVAL Racers who wanted to run NITRO cars
BRL - created for the use of BRUSHLESS

so I guess the LBRA - Lipo/Brushless Racing Association - will aim at that market?

Like with ALL changes, you don't have to make the immediate switch...but instead OFFER a single class with a strong set of rules...throw it out there..and see if it floats or sinks.

SONNY and the BRL is doing an AWSOME job at getting Brushless racing into the MAIN STREAM of Oval Racing (GOOD JOB). We've added a 4300 class to our Oval Series in '07, I believe the ORL has done the same, as have MOST of the different Oval Series...and one of the MOST Exciting Classes I've watched at the 'birds is the 4300 class. (Got to watch Sean Cochran at the SILVA CLASSIC CARPET CHALLENGE in Stockton last month...FLY in the 4300 class...look where he's qualified at the Birds)
 

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yea and look how close the times are from TQ through 10th!
swtour said:
I think the biggest thing that will drive LiPo's INTO R/C Racing...is the demand from the RACERS themselves.

NEW Products come out...RACERS BUY them...and then Urge the organizations they are involved with to give them a try.

If an organization doesn't give them a try...a NEW organization is created that does.

ARCOR - created with OVAL Racers in Mind
GASCAR - created for OVAL Racers who wanted to run NITRO cars
BRL - created for the use of BRUSHLESS

so I guess the LBRA - Lipo/Brushless Racing Association - will aim at that market?

Like with ALL changes, you don't have to make the immediate switch...but instead OFFER a single class with a strong set of rules...throw it out there..and see if it floats or sinks.

SONNY and the BRL is doing an AWSOME job at getting Brushless racing into the MAIN STREAM of Oval Racing (GOOD JOB). We've added a 4300 class to our Oval Series in '07, I believe the ORL has done the same, as have MOST of the different Oval Series...and one of the MOST Exciting Classes I've watched at the 'birds is the 4300 class. (Got to watch Sean Cochran at the SILVA CLASSIC CARPET CHALLENGE in Stockton last month...FLY in the 4300 class...look where he's qualified at the Birds)
 

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swtour - you keep preaching and I'll keep saying A-men! You are right on the money!

It never ceases to amaze me how people react to things. Every time, not just every once in a while but every single time there has been a battery change, almost every racers out there gets up in arms about more money, don’t need’um, moratoriums and on and on. Now, for the first time in the years that I have been involved with this stuff there’s a chance that we can get a battery that will out last, out perform and require fewer of them than anything we have ever had…………..and yet they are still met with criticism.

Go figure!
 

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McLin said:
swtour - you keep preaching and I'll keep saying A-men! You are right on the money!

It never ceases to amaze me how people react to things. Every time, not just every once in a while but every single time there has been a battery change, almost every racers out there gets up in arms about more money, don’t need’um, moratoriums and on and on. Now, for the first time in the years that I have been involved with this stuff there’s a chance that we can get a battery that will out last, out perform and require fewer of them than anything we have ever had…………..and yet they are still met with criticism.

Go figure!
I guess since I "criticized" the lipo class on here you are refferring to me. There are huge upsides to lipo, but they won't matter if the cars too fast for 90% of our current racers to drive. Why did we switch to 4 cell, because the cars were getting too fast. Well now ~5 years later we've already surpassed the speeds we were running with 6 cell. So, now everyone is fired up about classes that have even more voltage then we had back then? It doesn't add up to me.

The lipo thing has a ton of advantages, but maybe someone should do some testing and find a better application of it then what is currently offered. Is there any reason why someone can't offer a 1 cell pack? Maybe if some searching were to be done there is one out there? I looked briefly, but didn't see one. Are there slower motors that might help? Has someone looked for anything outside of the crawler motor?

The only problem with throwing out an untested class and seeing if it floats is that first impressions are everything. If it sinks it will be all that much harder to get people to try lipo again when someone comes up with a better solution.

Honestly it doesn't matter in the end anyway. As far as I know no one is planning to completely stop making NiMH anytime soon. So, if there isn't a solution for making LiPo classes that will go a reasonable speed then people will just not race it. If there is then fantastic I'd love to just own two packs and have them last.
 

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I was not referring to any one person in particular just in general; I should have made that clearer. No offence meant.

As with your other post on the other thread, you make valid points. While the excitement is there (at least on my part) considerable testing needs to be done before any real rules or classes can be set.

Hank did put me on to another battery and the site link is listed on the ARCOR thread. It’s a 6.6 volt pack made by A123 Racing. This one looks very promising and maybe a little more user friendly but you are still right, the voltage is still a bit much. However, if you put it in prospective, it would be the same as running a 6 cell pack with 1.1 volt cells. They also make their own charger for their packs that sells for $90. (The pack is $99)

As for the one cell pack, that would be good until you consider that none of our speed controls or servos would run off of 3.3 or 3.7 volts. It would require a good receiver pack. Not really unacceptable in the long run, a lot of people run one anyway. Problem is I, like you, have been looking and can’t find one.

The main point of my thinking in going back to some type of 6 cell voltage is to put Oval racing back into the main stream of where the rest of the hobby is. Maybe we could attract more racers. Maybe not but one way or the other the battery deal is going to have to be balanced with the motor to keep the speeds from getting out of hand and end up driving people away. I agree with you 100% on that part.

The only problem I have with the crawler motor is the cost. Why does this motor cost $94 when a 13.5 or 4300 is only $79? However, you compare brushless by doubling the brushless turn number so an 18.5 would be a 37 turn in brushed motors. 37 turns and 6.6 volts “appears” slow but only track testing will tell.

ARCOR has not slated this new class to be started until October and that is not etched in stone. This should allow plenty of time to do a lot of on track testing and if it’s not then that date will be adjusted until they are sure they have a grip on what is going on. You make another good point that if it is not done right and goes down the tube, it will be hard to try it again. I’m sure they will take their time and get it right the first time.
 

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Lin you make good points as well. I haven't yet looked at the A123 system. My guess on the crawler motor price is simply that they expect it to sell at a much lower volume then the 4300 does. Even though they share architecture it will still cost Novak more to have the crawler motor built if it is in lower volume. Last i looked the 13.5 was still listing for more than the 4300 as well. Same principle applies there.

I definitely agree it would be nice to be back on the same page with the rest of the RC world on battery voltage. That was my big gripe with going to 4 cells. How do we get an offroad guy to try oval racing if none of his packs will work. I think that has definitely limited our number of new guys since the switch to 4 cell.

If we can figure a class structure to suit everyone's talent levels and wallet sizes I think LiPos will be pretty cool.
 

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McLin said:
swtour - you keep preaching and I'll keep saying A-men! You are right on the money!

It never ceases to amaze me how people react to things. Every time, not just every once in a while but every single time there has been a battery change, almost every racers out there gets up in arms about more money, don’t need’um, moratoriums and on and on. Now, for the first time in the years that I have been involved with this stuff there’s a chance that we can get a battery that will out last, out perform and require fewer of them than anything we have ever had…………..and yet they are still met with criticism.

Go figure!
You are right on their money! I'm very excited about this also. I do think that which ever lipo is chosen, it should be in a hard case like the Orion. Just for safety sake.
 

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Personally I do not feel that LiPo’s are the future of oval or any other form of electric racing.

My position at Horizon allows me access to some of the leading experts in the battery technology field on a daily bases. They also agree that LiPo’s are probably not the answer for the serious race market.

The good news is newer safer and more cost effective technology will be coming over the next few years. I think at that point we will start to see some significant change to the power systems we use.

Short answer; The BRL does not have any plans to add a LiPo class.
 
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