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Discussion Starter #1
The following message is my personal opinion and reflects zero alterial motives!

Hi Im Billy Bruce, I have been racing since 1987 (13 years old).Worked in hobby shops, started hobby shops and race tracks, laid ground work for state series, ran races and promoted races, worked for manufatucers and currently work for a Manufacurer.

I got into this hobby cause i wanted to race something on my dads off-season drag racing. Any form of racing there is a pay to play aggenda. He would spend 50k plus on motors and transmissions and this was a CHEAP alternative to that, and a great way to spend time with his son.
When i got started esc was just coming out. I bought the novak 4 and 1 they was awesome aslong as you didnt reverse polarity. then you was buying another for 150 buck when it just up and quit. TRc pan cars where $400 and TQ eagle if you could get one was about the same I saw on a regular basis ppl buyin speedos every week....

now lets fast forward.... 89-92. Lake Whippoorwill, 2 new batteries a week([email protected]), new motors every week([email protected]), 100 packs of brushes $100-150 a bag every couple of months, oh yeah lets not forget capped tires 120$ a set and could very well blow one out every run.
Fast Forwad again... 99ish thru 2003 ish.... sub c cells getting bigger but not better... to be compettive you must have at least 2 new packs every race or you was tied to a pole runnig a lane out the whoel race cause your gettin passed that much. So thats lets say 4-6 packs a month. most pay from 40-80 for 4 cells and 60-100 for 6 cells.


now over the last few years of racing those things have went away and we have new things rite. Last year i bought 2 batteries and bought 2 motors. Less than $500 retail. bigger reduction in expense.

we went from 6 cell stock, to 4 cell 19t, to 4 cell 10.5, to 2s lipo 17.5, to now 1s 7.5 or 10.5 or 13.5 all with in the last 5 years. So now i think the oval community is at a point where this whole story comes together. The new guys getting in can now cause the cost are way cheaper for the consumer to get started and maintane. But the old schoolers like myself and some of the guys on the TOUR board have no issues with the changes we see cause it way better than we have ever had it.

I think Allan and Steve Should get a standing ovation for put there guidlines together for tracks to run by. It takes alot of personal time and sacrafice to do what they have done to make racing better for all of us. And No One should give any of these guys anything but praise for their efforts.

Not everyone racing is on the same playin or paying field. I believe there are really 4 kind of racers.
Racer 4 just sucks at driving and no matter how much money they spend will never get it.
Racer 3 are those who kick butt on a budget cause they work on there cars and test to go faster.
Racer 2 the guy who chooses to spend his money on his hobby and will buy anything and everything he need to go fast and work on his stuff and research like hell to be the best and win big races at whatever the cost.
Racer 1 the Sportsman. The guys who are just getting into racing buys all his stuff from hobby shops and has no sponsors.

I have been all 4! I suck at on-road and didnt like the money i had to spend to race them. so I race Oval. To each there own. I dont understand these rules we been trying to make up lately. I do not want to be told what to do or buy!

Craziest thing i heard in a while.....Lets ban the cheapest speedo to come out in a long time and make alot of crazy rules and make Tour just like
Roar and have 50 entries. How about lets not! Snowbirds .....biggest race least rules!
Only change i see needing to be made is maybe a equipement bounty on COT class. so you cant say he is running something i cant run. and then maybe a sportsman division in 10.5 and 7.5 class that doesnt offer championship title but class winner and trophy.

our daily lives are full of choices ....racing is the same way. so choose the racing that fits you and dont do more than can afford to do. What we cant do is tell someone they cant do it just cause you cant.

Sometime i have to take a break to get things done in my REAL life and wait it out till things settle down with racing.
I love racing and its better than ever. I have made alot of great friends along the way.
Props again to the Tour Board for there hard work and listening to all the compalints, know they cant make everyone happy but do a great JOB!

Im off my soap box... all this made me hungry!!

BB
 

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I think you may be forgetting Racer #5. The guy (or gal) who looks at all this from the outside and thinks, "Hey, that looks awesome! How can i get started?"

There really needs to be a true Novice class. Slow enough to get the person hooked and moved on to real racing. When 13.5 COT class is running laps as fast as 10.5 there is no real opportunity for the total newbie to get hooked.

Now i'm not complainnig about the Mamba ESC. Heck, those options at that price!??!?!?! Best thing i've heard all day.

However, RC needs to grow. I agree it's the best it has ever been for Racers #1-#4. But something needs to be done for the guy who's interested but knows next to nothing about RC.
 

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Where's the other 98 cents? That's what's missing!!

Guys,

Don't mean to pick on either of you (hatcher#56 and pejota), but this is the problem in R/C. Everyone puts in there 2 cents and walks away from the problem. If there needs to be another class, start one. Take it on as a project. Make a differnce in the hobby, as opposed to criticizing from the sidelines. That's all I did. Just one racer with the help of one track owner. You can do it, believe me. We are nothing special. I can't wait to hear your ideas. Make it happen!!

Steve

PS
And don't be afraid of the criticism you'll receive. Its just a bunch of people putting in their 2 cents.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
Amen Brother!

and Racer #5 is actually Racer#1 one of the guys im ranting for. A class like 13.5 cot and not have to run agains the guys in the a main at the Ovalmasters.
 

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As much complaining as I've heard on HobbyTalk lately about everything under the sun, I do think that everyone involved in TOUR deserve credit- they stepped up and established SOMETHING we can all follow for a change. While it may not please everyone- find me something that does! I can only hope that we stick to these rules for a few years, and get people settled into classes.
 

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Great post Billy.

For the person that thinks there is not a starter class look at the 17.5 truck class. That is the starter class. 13.5, 10.5, and 7.5 should be "race" classes with only the body being the thing that is a set rule (13.5 COT). These are the most popular classes and they are there to showcase what is going on in this hobby.

TOUR is the best thing since Brushless, LIPO, and the BRL.

So thanks Steve and Allan for all that you do and have done.

Joel White
 

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Discussion Starter #10
i think we are on to something....how about 13.5 truck. that way if a guy wants to move up all he has to do is change bodies. no motor upgrade.
 

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then you would basically have 2 of the same class, just different bodies... The point of 17.5 was to have a class for the guys who think 13.5 was too fast. Obviously there are a few because the class has really taken off.
 

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I run the TOUR rules at the track I manage in Indy.We run all TOUR classes except Open Pro Mod...and have solid Snowbird A Main level guys running there weekly.

I recently started a "buffer" class to fit between 17.5 Sportsman Truck & 13.5 COT.

A lot of guys including myself would rather stay out of the way of our 13.5 & 10.5 TOUR guys(Chad Humble,Dusty Kemp,Matt Graves,Brian Deel,Monti,Eli,Joe Retherford,etc).Some of us need more time to knock the rust off...and others just want to go faster & still have a chance to win.

Our new class is based on a old class we ran in the early 90's...a IROC class.

The new Indy IROC class rules are any pan car chassis,Novak 13.5ss motor powered by any of the Novak Havoc speedos(or XBR),1cell Lipo(TP40c,SMC40c,or SMC2c),World GT tires,a HPI 200mm Trans Am body painted in a single color with the drivers name on the door,and a 86 spur with 3 pinion options only.
These rules allow guys to use what they might have had in the 17.5 class or what they my need for the 13.5 class...plus it keeps the cost cheap.

We have 20 guys already and three series sponsors to fund trophies and keep parts cost low.

Other race directors need to follow my lead and get creative to keep the racers wanting more and returning to the track during these hard economic times.

Any questions...give me a call
Kevin Cole
R/Car Indy Facility Manager/Race Director

*By the way we'll have our Snowbirds warm up race New Years Day...
"Prelude to the Birds"
 

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i think we are on to something....how about 13.5 truck. that way if a guy wants to move up all he has to do is change bodies. no motor upgrade.
17.5 Truck,Tour batts,and open tires.Real good chance a racer has a 13.5
to move up if he wants.Bodies are near the cheapest part of the package
sans a custom paint job............;)
 

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no need for more classes and no need for more rules each track can modify there own deal as needed..........


GOOD JOB TOUR!!!!
 

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IMO 13.5/1C is too fast for a novice.
100% correct. I am not sure what bbrcracer is talking about with needing a 13.5 truck class... We have classes right now that cover enough racers.

Current TOUR classes are...

17.5 Turcks
13.5 COT
10.5
7.5
Open Mod (though I am not sure this class is working out to well yet)


Now with the new speed controls coming out TOUR may have no choice next year but to change the classes as the speed has really picked up (Almost 2 laps now). But if that is the worst thing it is ok IMO. We can just bump everyone a wind lower and we will be good to go again.

This is just something I have been thinking of and has nothing to do with TOUR, nor do I have insite into anything that they are planning...Just thinking out loud. Again I would think we wouldn't see this untill next year when we all have plenty of time to plan things out. TOUR has nothing but the racers in mind when they make these choices. And everyone knows that they can't make 100% of the people happy.
 

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I got back into "real" oval racing last year. I had been running a Legends car for the past coupla years, but once I saw the Snowbirds right here in Orlando in 2006, I wanted so desperately to get back into pan car racing. In December of 2008, I had the opportunity to purchase an almost complete ready-to-run race package. However, by that time, brushed motors and 4-cell was on the way out. I didn't have the money then to buy all new electronics, so I went with what I had to run at the 'Birds - 19T/4-cell Truck, the only brushed motor class at the 'Birds in 2009. Now, there is no brushed-motor class at the 'Birds. I wanted to also run "locally" (if you can call a hour-and-a-half drive "local"...LOL), and the tracks were running brushless/LiPo. I got started with LiPo by purchasing a charger and two 2s 3200's from Dave Irrgang at the 'Birds; just needed an ESC and a motor now. Found an ESC (Novak GTB) and a 13.5 on HobbyTalk for cheap, so the only thing left was to get the CoT body I needed once TOUR was established and the tracks here started running them. I spent, let's see:

$250 on a used race car (8 years old from what I'm told...LOL) along with several sets of tires, brushed motors that I can't use anywhere right now, and a buncha parts (springs, shocks, and various other parts)
$200 on a Spektrum radio (DX2.0)
$130 on a charger
$100 on two 2s LiPos (that I don't know if I can use any more due to TOUR rules) and an Orion charger
$125 on a GTB and a 13.5 motor
$65 on a used AMB personal transponder
$40 on a 1s SMC 25c/4000mAh LiPo
$30 on a body and paint

...and that's over the course of the last year or so. So I've spent $940 in the last year just to TRY and keep up. My fiance's not real happy about the amount of money we've spent :D BUT - she understands that it's something I love to do. Hell, she even rebuilt my truck for me last year at the 'Birds on Thursday night after I destroyed it and busted the rear pod lower plate and the T-plate.

I've been around this hobby since before Billy :D (got my first R/C car in '86 - a Tamiya Grasshopper!) and my first race was in 1987 with a RC10 Gold Tub car with a BoLink Corvette dirt oval body. I've run just about every type of electric 1/10th-scale car - from off-road truck to indoor skating-rink oval and even Figure 8. It does take some money to run these things. I can't afford to buy new stuff all the time; in fact, probably the last new stuff I bought was a 10L oval car about 15 years ago. I don't *expect* to win everywhere I go, but I do work on my cars, and if I can't figure out, I get some help. I guess I fall into kinda the "sportsman" category. I do this for fun. I'm kinda like Billy here; my dad has owned a real Late Model car for years, and I wanted something to run like his when I was a kid.

I buy some of my stuff from hobby shops, but some (like another two used cars, and the motor/ESC) I've bought from the "For Sale" forums on the R/C message boards. I support my local shops *when I can afford it*, but if I can find a good deal on some slightly used stuff, I'll pick it up.

I'm goin' to the 'Birds for the second time in 2010, and I'm havin' fun doin' it ;)
 

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Billy, I respectfully disagree.

It sounds like you are justifying wasting money just because that's what we have done in the past.

We are on a level playing field with our current esc's, by allowing the Mamba you're forcing everyone to spend $$ just to get back to the same, level, playing field we were at in the first place. It seems really asinine to me. And now you have to buy a new motor to get back to the speed you signed up for also.

I don't think allowing this esc is going to help get new racers considering you can buy a Novak for less. The Mamba requires surgery out of the box to be operable in 1 cell. I have seen many newbies scared aways because r/c is just too technical for them.

The current Mamba will probably be outdated in 2 months also. I believe the 1 cell version may very well be smaller, lighter, faster and may not require a rx pack. It may also be more expensive, I don't think anyone really knows.

I don't see why saving racers money by limiting some products is a bad thing. DODC does it (bat/mot/esc), BRL does it (bat/mot/esc), Nascar does it (tires/body/wing).

Luckily, my local track has seen how popular the spec class they created is and have created a second spec class for the pros. They are getting the biggest car counts they have in 8 years right now, there are not many clubs that can say that I bet. These 2 classes are bringing in new racers in and old racers back.

I agree there are many different types of racers and that's why there needs to be a place for this esc...just not in every class. Maybe the fastest class only.

Regions are different. It looks like open rules are working in Fl. Here, our tracks are small (88ft), so things are different in different regions. Different rules work in different regions. If you got it it figured out for your area, don't change it. I think we are on to something here.

I just wanted to try to explain why not allowing the Mamba isn't crazy to some of us.
 

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The current Mamba will probably be outdated in 2 months also. I believe the 1 cell version may very well be smaller, lighter, faster and may not require a rx pack. It may also be more expensive, I don't think anyone really knows.
I spoke with them this morning to get some answers the problems people were have with radios, etc.

The 1s will be for sale only on their website. It will cost about the same as the Pro. They are waiting on packaging right now. The release date is/about 12/15.
 
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