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Discussion Starter #1
I just got back from NCS#5 at MPR after being disqualified for rules violation on page 23. Chassis (11.12.05) #3 states "Lower control arms must be of equal length (plus or minus .125 inch) as measured from the centerline of the inner mounting point to the centerline of the ball joint.There is a tolerance of .125 inch for each lower control arm, that is to mean that the overall difference between the left and right lower control arms is .250 inch."

I am a novice and I bought this car on Hobby Talk last year. So I watched as 3 different people including the National Tech Director mark my car and measure from the center mark they used with a sharpie to both lower spindle bolts on my car and each got a different distance all over .250 inch. So I accepted my DQ not even knowing the rule trusting that the National Tech Director knew how to measure this correctly. I got home and measured from their marks and found it was off .310 off, a total of .051 too much on the right side, and I got my QSAC rulebook out to check my car all over for other possible infractions I was not aware of and I stumbled upon the rule above that I was disqualified for. I read it many times and realized they did not measure from the centerline of my ball joints like it said. They went from the center of the bottom spindle bolts. I had 4.5 degrees of positive camber in the LF and 4 degrees of negative camber in the RF. I took the bolts out of spindle and measured from the centerline of the ball-joint and found out I was within the .250 rule.

So I have been on phone with both Co-chairs and the National Tech Director to try to rectify this situation. Their responses all included it is too late to change anything the problem should have been dealt with there. Because not only did I lose 2nd place at this event, I lost the National Championship in the Limited Class, because according to rule book, since I have a DQ now I have to carry that 0 points in my 3 NCS total point races. Therefore, I can only receive a total maximum of 400 points.

My point is do not do what I did and assume because they are The National Tech Director that they automatically know the rules. Don't be like me and try to win a NCS Championship and throw all your efforts out the window because of your trust of people with titles. This rulebook will travel with me in my toolbox and will be there like a bible now.

I sincerely hope my ill feeling from this will pass and I will again support the QSAC NCS races that take time and money to get to. For now I will just race my local track and those tracks within minimal distance. Thanks J.R. Parsley
 

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You are on target with this. We were told that there is a length limit on the carb bolts and if they are too long you will be DQ'd. Let's air and dirt into the engine which removes material and that is also against the rules. This came up at the Algona NCS race. Two of us scoured the rule book to find this rule and did not come up with anything. Nothing about bolt length or for that matter that it has to seal up. Maybe it's in there but we couldn't find it. If anyone finds it please let me know where.

The point I am making here is this "Bolt Rule" also came from a QSAC person.

Now, as I understand it, another misunderstood rule has cost someone a National Championship. Someone who spent a lot of time and money to make it to the races. As I mentioned in another post, too many nit picking rules take away the fun! Now throw in there something like this! If we keep going in this direction, my prediction is nobody will want to attend NCS races.

Reno
 

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So if you measure it in a static position (with out camber) it would be OK is that what you are saying???...
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Wait a minute.

Was this measured from centerline of the car or the hinge pin of the lower a-arm?
It was measured from marked lines with a sharpie on the bottom of my front aluminum plate that holds the lower front A arms in place to my lower spindle bolts with a caliper of some kind. Then they subtracted the distance of the left measurement from the right and came up with a total that was never the same but was always over .250 inch. If they would have took spindle bolts out and measured from the centerline of ball joint like it says in rulebook it would have passed tech. That way the camber angle of your front wheels is taken out of the equation. The more positive camber of the LF tire versus negative camber on the RF tire will effect this measurement the way that it was done in post tech.

If I can save one racer from having to go through what my wife and I have went through this week it is worth it. I know they are toy cars and everything but this was important to us and nobody likes to be called a cheater.
 

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Thats a bunch of BS. By no means should a technical inspector NOT know how to ensure compliance of enforced QSAC rules especially when determining if a competitor is DQ'd. Did they have a rulebook there for reference at the tech table by any chance? If not, your points should be reinstated ASAP.
 

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Should be measured and only measured as stated in line #3 in the rule book. A Sharpie doesn't sound very accurate to me. Lower A-arm mounting point(hinge pin center) to lower ball joint center. Three people shouldn't all have different measurements when using a calipers. There should only be one accurate dimension. Maybe a simple fixture in the future could measure the arms more accurately off of the car. Especially if a car is in jeopardy of being DQ'ed and is racing on a NCS level.
 

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It was measured from marked lines with a sharpie on the bottom of my front aluminum plate that holds the lower front A arms in place to my lower spindle bolts with a caliper of some kind. Then they subtracted the distance of the left measurement from the right and came up with a total that was never the same but was always over .250 inch. If they would have took spindle bolts out and measured from the centerline of ball joint like it says in rulebook it would have passed tech. That way the camber angle of your front wheels is taken out of the equation. The more positive camber of the LF tire versus negative camber on the RF tire will effect this measurement the way that it was done in post tech.

If I can save one racer from having to go through what my wife and I have went through this week it is worth it. I know they are toy cars and everything but this was important to us and nobody likes to be called a cheater.
I don't even know you, but I for one do not consider you a cheater over this whole mess at all.
 

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They dont do a pre-race inspection?
Yes there was a pre tech at MPR's NCS #5 race.
One thing to remember is this was a NCS race not a local event, at our local Saturday race I can not even think of the last time there was ever a tech done on any of the cars that racw there weekly. NCS races are compleetly different race than our weekly shows as far as tech and format. I have seen us wait up to almost a 1/2 hour for a racer to fix his car for a heat race and we will wait for him just so he can race.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
They dont do a pre-race inspection?
Yes there was, and they did not check this rule. Apparently it was going to be a surprise at post tech and I do not understand why. This was the 5th NCS race this car had been to this year and I passed all previous post and pre techs with it set up exactly this way.

I even took both A arms off the car and lined them up and measured them when I got home. My results were still the same with a difference of .240, within the legal limit of .250.
 

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JR, I would never think of you as a cheater. This rule is pathetic nit picky crap. A page filler at best for the rule book. I couldn't even see it making any kind of performance advantage if you even were out of spec and according to your posts you really weren't and that is very, very sad. Seriously it is too late? At the very least they could let you drop the DQ off your best three races. It was their rules and they got them wrong. I really shouldn't be bashing the organization I care about but you are one of my racing buddies and it ticks me off that you are being screwed over and no one has yet to own up to it or at the very lest attempt to make it right if the facts are straight.:confused:

Jeremiah Ward
QSAC #1974
 

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So JR. Did i misunderstand our conversation? I thought you told me you measured when you got home and also found it to be out of specs. But not as much as they found. Your main complaint was how it was measured. Although it was measured by more than one person and several different ways and multiable tools and to my knowledge was found out if spec by all. Are these correct statements?
 

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Yes there was, and they did not check this rule. Apparently it was going to be a surprise at post tech and I do not understand why. This was the 5th NCS race this car had been to this year and I passed all previous post and pre techs with it set up exactly this way.

I even took both A arms off the car and lined them up and measured them when I got home. My results were still the same with a difference of .240, within the legal limit of .250.
What a deal! I can't blame you for being upset. Did they admit they measured wrong? If it was their fault why can't they make it right?
 

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Reno, What I am hearing is that a QSAC official told you not to use excessively long bolts to purposely jack the phenolic block away from the cylinder head and by-pass airflow around the restrictor plate and this is upsetting to you as you can’t find it in the rules. Is this correct? How detailed do the rules need to be? Sometimes a duck is a duck. Let’s have a poll. Who thinks purposely jacking the phenolic block away from the cylinder head to by-pass airflow around the restrictor plate is within the spirit of the rules and is perfectly acceptable?

J.R. you are not a cheater. You’re a good, fair, up and coming racer who got caught with his pants down. I don’t like the surprise inspection items either…especially for Limited Sportsman. I think the sharpie marks were only used as a visual aid during the explanation to you of the measuring process and the rule. The cars I witnessed being measured (including my own) were measured from the edge of the frame rail to the spindle bolt on both sides. The difference from side to side SHOULD be zero and it MUST be less than .250”. The officials measured your car a dozen times trying to make it legal.

Scott Schramske
 

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Looks like to me there is no accurate way to measure to the center of the rod end with no bolt in it, because you have a 1/4" air space in the ball and the ball swivels, to me the only accurate way to measure it would be to find a point on the A-Arm mount and using a dial caliper measure across to the far side of the ball with the caliper inserted into the ball. Just my thoughts
 

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i saw them measuring at the end they did the left front lower first then moved the caliper over to right front still in the open position from the left then zeroed out the scale and started to open it to reach the center of lower ball joint it went over .300, im not saying anything bad about you jr but i saw the number and it sucked when i saw it
 
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