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Bret Lund
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I just want everyone to post how they take care of their batteries. Not brand XYZ is best, bla, bla, bla. I have my favorite too, but know matter what I do, they loose performance. I've been racing for 15 + years and have never had a battery maintain it's "like new" performance. Fortunately I have some backing and can replace them often, to make up for my ignorance.
Please no "BS" Just proven results.
Thanks, Bret
 

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From what I have seen the days of rematching cells and getting better numbers from most all of them are long gone.
With the 2000s you could have cells that were a year old and better that they were new,the 3300s seem to deteriorate from the first cycle.
Good thread Jet I will be intrested in the opinions.
 

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i have been using this method for about 1 1/2 seasons and had good results. i always charge at 6A and discharge at 30A. i set my turbo 30 on peak det of .03 for 4 cell and try to get it to peak just befor i race. if it peaks 5 min or longer before the race starts i peak it again at .01. after thee race is over i discharge at 30A let the battery cool a bit then i put it in a tray until the battery is under .05 per cell.then i dead short it. i leave it that way until next week when i race again. i have just rematched my batteries this summer and the numbers came out pretty good. the oldest batteries are 2 years old and are the green and orange cells. the cells were 1.170 when i bought them and they came out at 1.16 and the ir didn't seem to go up much, they are from 15 to 21. i don't think thats to bad for 2 yr old cells. the newer cells showed an increase in about 1/2 of the batteries i have from 1.16 to 1.17 and 1.17 to 1.18. the other half stayed about the same. i did have 5 cells that just went bad [ that can happen to any brand of batteries when they are used every weekend ] . i did notice that the new shorty cells didn't seem to increase in voltage like the older long cells did when i dead shorted them.

well this is what i do, hope it can help some one

Dick J
 

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For 19 turn racing. 3300s love to be Hot! 8 amps with a 8 amp peak just before you run them. .03v drop for peak. cycle them at 35 amps if you have a Turbo 35 if not, As high as you got. Put the battery in a drop to 0v resistor based battery tray. Use 10 watt 0.1 Ohm resistor for each cell. You can get them off of radio shacks web site.


Just remember, someone will always have better batteries than you! So work on the chassis and win, win , win!
 

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Brett you could use my super magnet zapping technology, just take an old extension cord cut it apart, plug it in and touch the bare wires to the tabs, instant 110 volt zap. LOL!!!!!!!!!!:thumbsup:

JUST KIDDING BTW, I may be an idiot sometimes, but I`m not that stupid.:D
 

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While I am far from an "expert" and about all I can do is offer some advice on what not to do based on personal experence. What I have found is letting your packs sit unused and cycling them is a sure way to lower their performance. From what I can tell they should be used at least once per month and if you think they need cycled (for whatever wierd reason) put them in your car and run them.
 

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I think Jet is looking for a modified angle. Unfortunately, with the deep winds we have to run in mod for 4-cell, the stress put on the pack everytime you run it takes a little away from the cells. With these batteries(GP3300's) your first 5 or so cycles are going to be the best. While you lose 15-20 seconds of runtime the voltage and IR stay good for a lot longer, so it isn't like the packs are junk. They are still very raceable but fresh sticks for the big races is a must. You can still get it done with a 400-410 packs it just takes a little more motor tweaking and a more efficent car. When my car is on i can run within a couple seconds with my 6 month old practice packs compared to the fresher stuff. If you run mod on a regular basis you have to look at new packs every 4-6 months.
 

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Im a 7 amp charge guy and peak at 7 as well. I temp peak though. I like 130 degrees when I go the line on my packs no matter what class I run. Discharge at 30. With open mod packs Danny is right. They dont last long at top notch however. I will get 25 runs out of a pack in open mod before they get demoted to 19 turn stuff. With open mod packs I charge and discharge as mentioned above then do nothing more than put them away for next week or whenever. When I get to the track I then put them on an integy 20 amp tray until I charge them to race. This has proven to keep runtimes up, ir's and voltage in very good condition. Then as they start to show some sign of age they go to 19 turn packs. There I like to store them in a promatch tray. Im still racing my sticks from the roar nats last August and they will still run down records. They will also work just fine for local mod racing. Fairly simple strategy but it has worked well for me and my KC Racing sticks.

I have also found that (for me) running older packs that may not have the new performance is a good thing. It forces me to work on faster set ups on the car or make the motors better. Then when I invest in new sticks for that all important "BIG RACE" the new cells are just a bonus.

Rob @ Murdock R/C
 
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I buy and charge packs based on type of racing: stock offroad, oval 19t, mod oval. Stock offroad &TC charge at 6amp with 5mv cutoff discharged at 24 amp (mostly 390/1.16) oval 19turn 4cell, charged at 7amps, with 3mv cutoff, discharged with 16bulbs (400/1.17 with some rare 1.19), mod 4cell oval charged at 5.50 to 6amps with 3mv cutoff, discharged at roughly 32amps (420+/1.17 with a couple 1.18 lately). Pack purchased back in Sept 02, are charging good with no problems with false peaking, but did loose a little runtime/voltage to be used in mod, those are used in stock racing. Cells are stored discharge to .90 volts ( first generation were trayed then store without affecting cells that I could see on track) get cycled it not used within 2-4weeks. If pack has charged long before my heat 15min+ then I repeak at same setting just prior to the start of the heat before mine.
 

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Iv'e been using a Thermal charger lately and from i have seen it has been the most consistant charger when it comes to pack performance. Now i have been told and checked it ad it is consistant that if you charge on a T30,T35 or a GFX at 6 amps and.04 peak detect you get the real close to the same temp on the batteries. I haven'y checked for consistancy yet but they seem to hit pretty close to each other that way.


BIlly
 

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ya Bret i did loose some runtime. i lost on an average of 20 to 30 sec which brought the run time down to about 380 or so. for stock racing which is what i run it's not a big deal beceause i have around 120 sec left after a run anyhow.

Dick J
 

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On the new short button 3300's, I've had reports of great performance in stock and 19T by NOT dead-shorting and NOT traying them at all. Discharge at 30 A after the run and put them back in your box until next time.

I know that goes against everything most are doing, but the reports are that the voltage curve is staying higher throughout the usable portion of the pack -- increasing the avg voltage by shortening the runtime doesn't really tell you what the voltage curve looks like during the usable portion.

Again -- this is only on the newest short button stuff. Also -- the reports are that the loss in runtime is only 10 or 15 sec. They are also saying that, like dead shorting, the voltage IS INCREASING like dead-shorting does, but there isn't the loss in runtime.

I know--it made me scratch my head too as a dead-shorting stock racer myself.

Interesting....
 

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Okay this topic is right up my alley. You want to know "how to keep batteries new" get a Quillen zapper. After about a month or so on new sticks zap them before every run and they will return to new condition. Zapping them will re-lower the IR's and increase voltage, but it only works on an older cell.


As far as what to charge at, 8 amp charge and an 8 amp peak is the only way to go for stock and 19 zero racing. Here is why:

On my GFX I can monitor the discharge voltage curve on the graph. Here are my findings on a pack at 6 and 8.

................6amp 8amp
VOLTAGE ....4.65 4.65
[email protected] 4.66 4.66
IR's ............11.4 11.6
RUNTIME... ...324 325

5 seconds ....5.19 5.23
15 seconds ..5.05 5.07
30 seconds ..4.90 4.91
60 seconds ..4.82 4.83
90 seconds ..4.75 4.75
120 seconds 4.71 4.71
150 seconds 4.67 4.67
180 seconds 4.63 4.62
210 seconds 4.58 4.57
240 seconds 4.52 4.51

As you can see the "average" is the same but the actual curve is different. At 8 amps the pack has more spank up front but tails after the 3 minute mark, but you gain more up front than you loose at the end. Stock racing is all about the voltage, so do what you can to get the most from your packs!

Here is some info on deadshorted vs. non-deadshorted. These numbers are from the same pack

.Nondeadshorted Deadshorted
VOLTAGE ....4.70 4.72
[email protected] 4.71 4.73
IR's ............10.2 10.1
RUNTIME ......328 318

5 seconds ....5.24 5.25
15 seconds ..5.07 5.09
30 seconds ..4.93 4.94
60 seconds ..4.84 4.84
90 seconds ..4.79 4.80
120 seconds 4.75 4.76
150 seconds 4.72 4.72
180 seconds 4.67 4.68
210 seconds 4.62 4.63
240 seconds 4.56 4.57

The deadshorted pack has more voltage all the way through the run after it was deadshorted. You can make your own decision on what to do, but for me and stock racing 8amp charge, 8amp peak, and deadshorting is the only way to go.

Here is one more bit of info:

............PACK #1 PACK #2
VOLTAGE ....4.69 4.70
[email protected] 4.70 4.71
IR's ............10.0 10.2
RUNTIME ......329 325

5 seconds ....5.23 5.22
15 seconds ..5.08 5.06
30 seconds ..4.94 4.93
60 seconds ..4.84 4.83
90 seconds ..4.80 4.80
120 seconds 4.75 4.76
150 seconds 4.71 4.72
180 seconds 4.67 4.67
210 seconds 4.62 4.62
240 seconds 4.57 4.57

The 4.70 pack looked better after you cycled it but if you take the numbers one step further than you can see the 4.69 pack is better for stock because it has more voltage up front. 75% of all stock races are won in the first minute of racing. Who ever can get out front usually wins (pending no wrecks).

The ultimate decision is up to you and what you feel is the right thing to do. Charging at 8 amps will shorten the life of your packs. The 4.72 pack only lasted 3 months and it is down to a 4.70 now.

Just my 2 cents.
 

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Tony:

Does the same thing happen if you DON'T zap the cells before EVERY run ???

That would be interesting because at our track, nobody has a zapper sitting next to their T-35's.

Just wondering...

Thx.
 

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I do not have a zapper Jeff. I have a prototype in the works but nothing to use yet. The info about the zapper was stuff I picked up from Fabio at SRC! A zapper does not help new cells but will help to bring them back to new after about a month or 2 of hard charging.

As soon as my zapper is done I will do some testing and see when it really helps a pack over time.
 

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i heard that a zapper only works one time... my understanding is there is a spring in the cell... and ass the cell charges this spring compresses... when u zap the cell, it welds the spring tight, making it better....

if the cell is not done properly aND the weld breaks, i can see it working again.. but if done properly.. i dont see it working again.....i have never seen an improvement in zapping a used cell...and ive tried... i did all i could to not have to buy new packs.. but i ended up having to do so...Buying new packs is the best way to keep performance up.. just howe it is i guess
 

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Hey Mike,

There are small thin plates in the cells. After you zap the cell for the first time the plates become tack welded. This tack welding lowers the IR's and raises the voltage. Over time the from charging and heat, the welds can break and do break. Re-zapping the pack before every charge will help retack the plates. Because we can not carry around the zappers that are initially used a small portable zapper can be used to help bring the pack back to their like new condition. I have not tested this info but I will when my zapper is done. This way I can see how long the rezapping lasts before the packs just fall off.

You are correct though, new cells will always out perform older cells.
 

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cool yeah what i meant to say was 2 plates with a spring in between... thats what i was told...cool keep us posted on the testing...
 
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Tornado_Racing said:
Hey Mike,

Re-zapping the pack before every charge will help retack the plates. Because we can not carry around the zappers that are initially used a small portable zapper can be used to help bring the pack back to their like new condition.
You are correct though, new cells will always out perform older cells.
I have a Xipp Zapper DCX3000 maintenance zapper from Integy. Are you saying to zapp before charging before races? Thanx

Henry E.
 
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