Johnny Lightning Super II ???

I've run quadralams in the original non-magnatraction AFX chassis, which is essentially the most refined gravity-traction TJet chassis Aurora ever did. They run okay when equipped with very strong magnets and access to a stout power supply.

I don't want to sound negative, but the mystique surrounding the Aurora Super II far exceeds its actual performance. The Super II was a big disappointment in its day primarily because it didn't live up to the hype and speculation surrounding its release. The Super II was primarily a parts donor chassis for its armature, wheels, and gears. The excessively large front and side weights were crudely done and did little other than add a ton of weight to the front of the chassis. Good for fishing weights and little else. Nothing on the Super II represented a departure from what hot rodders of the day were doing to their standard AFXs. In fact, the many variations of hybrid AFX+brass pan chassis were far superior to the Super II, although many of these were equipped with the fine Super II armature. The primary "go factor" in the Super II quadralam is its very low resistance double wind, which came in somewhere between 3 and 4 ohms. Having 4 laminations and mildly advance timing added a small additional boost. A good motor man could easily wind a 2-lam or 3-lam armature that would beat the stock Super II quadralam hands down.

I don't quite understand what Tom Lowe would be trying to accomplish with a Super II clone (other than appealing to the undeserved Super II mystique). The prospect of having wider access to original AFX style chassis (non-magnatraction) sounds mighty appealing to me because I happen to really like that chassis. The Super II body is nothing special and came in far too few variations. I think the current JL-XT with its tri-lam has a lot more perfomance potential in it. It runs strong and cool as it is today with a very mild 15 ohm wind. I think JL/RC2 could do a "performance series" XT chassis with a slightly hotter wind, a blueprinted chassis, aluminum wheels, etc., and appeal to the racing crowd with a beefed up chassis and racing oriented bodies. Reproducing the Super II sounds like a mighty expensive proposition and a step backwards.

Yeah, I know that my desires for the direction of the JL products differ quite a bit from the premise behind JL's entry into the market. I'd like to see JL go after the slot car market as a full fledged modern player with their own new product development and innovative new products. But the whole premise behind the JL slot cars was to appeal to the nostalgic Aurora slot car collectors who are willing to buy copies of the original cars they can no longer obtain, or obtain at reasonable prices. That's fine, but I think it's appeal is somewhat limited and I really appreciate JL's foray into areas that Aurora never even entered. I love the JL slot cars for what they are. If they never copied another Aurora slot I'd be fine with that. So far I think they've done a pretty good job of appealing to both new age and retro collectors.

The brains behind the Aurora Super II are still around. From what I've read and heard, the Super II that Aurora released was far different than what its creators envisioned. Much was lost during the move to manufacturing. I would be far more interested if JL released the Super II as it was intended than what it ended up as after being run through one too many committees.

I'm not knocking the vintage stuff. Rather, I believe we are living during one of the better times for HO slot car collectors and racers that has happened in the past 20 years or so. There's some truly great new products on the market, custom fab shops are running at full bore as they are fueled by the online marketplace, and Johnny Lightning has created a lot of excitement with vintage inspired cars. There's too much good stuff happening today to feel like you missed out on something that happened 30+ years ago and it needs to be reincarnated. And as far as the Super II is concerned, you didn't miss out on anything other than the current EBay appeal of a failed attempt by Aurora to produce a true ready to race slot car. I wish I'd bought some IBM or Intel stock rather than Super IIs back in the 70s.

AfxToo said:

The brains behind the Aurora Super II are still around. From what I've read and heard, the Super II that Aurora released was far different than what its creators envisioned. Much was lost during the move to manufacturing. I would be far more interested if JL released the Super II as it was intended than what it ended up as after being run through one too many committees.

(snip)

Click to expand...

A while back (I'm talking maybe 2 years) there was a thread on the Planet of Speed BBS regarding this. I posted a little story about a visit I took to Buzz-A-Rama, which is a commercial track in Brooklyn, NY that's been around since the 60's. I mentioned that it was the place that a kid named Tony Porcelli beat a bunch of then-new TycoPros with a souped-up AFX, and Aurora hired him on to help build a supercar which became the Super II. (This is all straight out of Greenberg's Guide to Aurora Slot Cars, if anyone happens to have it.) What I found out in response to the thread was that the Super II in fact DID deviate from Mr. Porcelli's plans/ideas to make it easier to mass produce, and the final product suffered greatly. In fact, he actually responded through another bulletin board member to point out that his original car was not in fact a souped-up AFX, but rather a souped-up Tjet. Today he manufactures lightning-fast HO scale magnet cars under the Slottech name.

More to the point: Yeah, AfxToo, imagine a JLTO that's close to the Tjet he used to beat the TycoPros...

--ricki

Hey that's great tjd--A good laugh about it !
I'm in agreement with you and the old adage " make it and they will come", pertaining to this hobby and I do feel JL is on the right track producing "bread and butter" cars for the masses, but I would like to think they have enough R&D to branch out and explore all avenues of the hobby. Catering to the racers is definitely a good way to start.
I think a "pro' series of slots based on one of the previous (but higher tech) chassis' prototypes would be a good idea and selling point. They could offer a Super II style "hop up kit" of their own with every state of the art piece to assemble a real competitive race car. I'm familiar with that thread about the Super II design, so if JL could make it better through modern production techniques-that would be great, but I would still take the original if that's only what's offered. This might even spawn a whole new race series and open another door for JL marketing and be a real boon for the serious racers.
Although I'm just a "runner" or a back-marker, I still have to fiddle with my cars to make them run optimally for their design--just like we all do. A full-out pro racer starts at the same place but takes it to the next level, and the next , and the next....so there's little difference in that respect, and a kit would benefit most everyone in some way. Not being the hard-core racer I would buy them just to have some faster built cars and to have some neat extra wheels/parts/decals etc.
I cherish the idea that TL would/could spear-head a Tyco-Pro style renaissance. I think they would have a rights issue problem with Mattel in copying the original body styles and some of some of those have been re-released, already. I would be very interested in seeing what they plan to pull-off with this idea. New body-styles from JL to fit Tyco chassis' would be hard for me to comprehend, so I would guess that would mean another chassis style. I say "BRING IT ON"! But I sure would like to see a better parts distribution than they have now, though. I'm sure they must have tons of extra chassis stock-piled.
cheers

If JL/RC2 does a Super II clone it won't affect the price of the originals. It would however allow more people see exactly what the Super II really has to offer, which would greatly demystify the Super II legend. But at the end of the day I think that a JL Super II would just become a quadralam armature donor if they did the arm right. The current JLTO magnets are already at Super II levels. So the real question is, why not just build a quality quadralam armature, slide it into the existing two chassis as performance upgrades? Sell special "Super XT" versions of the XT cars and "Super TJet" versions of the TJets and invest the chassis reengineering costs into more new body styles for the two existing product lines.

Tyco wasn't sitting on its hands back when the Super II was being formulated either. There were a series of Tyco prototypes that would have taken the Tycos way beyond the limitations of the TycoPro and leave the regular AFX cars far behind. I can't say for certain, but the advent of magnet traction cars probably ended the R&D effort on a number of innovative new chassis designs at both Aurora and Tyco. If JL wants to pick up where those companies left off and can be sucessful doing it, that's great. I'll buy whatever they make and I'll probably like it.

Very nice thread.

Whats say we design our own super II and test it using whats available today. I believe you can still pickup Super II chassis on ebay but if not an AFX would do. Flaten the motor brush springs on an AFX Chassis, buy some brush tubes from JAG hobbies use XT motorbrush springs and brushes. Install a set of JL Tuff-one magnets. Now use an XT gear plate and Super II crown gear from JAG Hobbies. Lets skip the weights used by a Super II and use one of JW's weighted fronts and a set of his dual flange AFX rears and slip on silicones or if you want set screw wheels RT HO makes reproduction riims. Pick up a Super II clear plastic body or something better looking Scale Auto and NCPHhobbie.com Find an Autoworld body clip to mount your body or add body tubes to your chassis. Get a set of stepped MT pickups or a set from BSRT. You know have a car that will handle much better than a SuperII put won't have the top end. Drop a mean green arm in it and the Super II loses a lot of it speed advantage.

I have been thinking about building what I call JFX's using and AFX chassis, JL Tuff-one magnets and motor brushes, and XT Gear plate, pickups and springs.

Now Mr Lowe could make his own JFX and give us the old Can Am and Lemans Bodies and the new Daytona Prototype bodies. I'll buy some cases