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Discussion Starter #1
NOTE: The following text was first written on StarshipModeler.com. I'm posting it here just as I stated it there.

Because I need a little help here.....

I am busily involved in creating a diorama from the TOS episode "The Ultimate Computer", wherein the M5 Multitronic Unit, in control of the USS Enterprise, attacks the unshielded starships Lexington, Excalibur, Hood, & Potemkin.

I have already completed the Excalibur (which, onscreen, was just a reuse of some of the footage of the Constellation from "The Doomsday Machine"), and the PL 1/1000 Potemkin, NCC-1657. In the un-remastered show, the Excalibur was the only ship we saw up close. I've done what I think is reasonable (terrible) damage to the Potemkin, and (using leftover PL warp nacelle parts), have created suitable damage to the Hood's warp nacelles. Three PL 1/1000 kits are in the mail right now, coming to my house (yeah, baby!).

I actually plan to do up the damaged Lexington, and the rest of the Hood. I pretty much know what I want to do to the Hood, but I'm kinda at a loss for what to do to the Lexington. I did the Excalibur with all the same damage spots that were shown onscreen (ie: Constellation), and added some doo-doo to the parts that were never visible, and that's all good. I'm satisfied with what I've done so far on three of the four ships in the attack fleet. But the Lexington..... what's to be done with the Lexington?

In the show, Spock reports that the Lexington took a hit in the Engineering Section, with possible damage to her impulse drive; she was still manueverable at warp speed. Then she was hit again, and I can only assume that the M5 was trying to knock out her warp drive (which is, incidentally, her main power source).

Opinions? I could use you peoples' advice. I'm trying to make the damage on every ship distinctive, but their power supplies all come from the same areas. The M5 Multitronic Unit used the Enterprise very effectively in it's efforts to destroy four Federation starships of it's own class-- same shields (although it got in a few good knocks against the other ships when they had no shields), same weapons (although they had to take the time to ramp their phasers to full strength), etc.

What I'm asking is this (and it's only because I find myself in a real quandry about what damage might be feasible, and still allow Commodore Wesley to tell Starfleet Command that he still had an "effective fighting force", capable of stopping the Enterprise): how much damage had the Lexington taken?

In my Star Trek universe, the Excalibur had been destroyed. The Hood and the Potemkin had been heavily damaged. The Lexington was the first ship the Enterprise attacked, and the later, it hit that ship again. I assume that by the time the Lex was attacked the second time, she had raised whatever shields she had left, so perhaps that second attack wasn't as devastating.

What I'm saying is this: I could use some advice. What and where should the damage to the Lexington be?

I thank all of you in advance for any advice you might offer.

M5
 

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Hey there M5, I haven't watched that ep for a while. I guess nobody really knows for sure. I will watch the ep if I get around to it...probably tomorrow and tell you where I think the damage should be. Well TOS is on right now on tvland...so im gone.
 

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If theres one thing that comes across for the tos constitution class, is that it can survive a lot of damage and still fight - just look at the Constellation in TDM! smashed engines, smashed hull but still able to move AND still able to fire phasers!

I always figured there were 2 engine rooms, one near the impulse engine and one near the shuttle bay (it think theres a line where sulu over the intercom, says: "Engine rooms standy by...."), so in my mind at least, damage to the ship power systems could be represented by blackend hull plates around the impulse drive, or any number of places on the secondary hull.

Just my 2 cents,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hey, guys! Thanks for the replies.

As far as waiting for the remastered eps, I'm kinda screwed on that one: I made the Excalibur awhile back. In the original episode, the ship they showed as her was just a reuse of a couple of shots of the Constellation from "TDM". So I reproduced all the same damage on a 22" cutaway model, and labelled her the Excalibur (of course, I added other "blow-outs" and such in places those couple of shots never revealed, subtlely changed what onscreen damage I did reproduce, and blatantly violated onscreen canon by blowing the bridge open to space....and if you think combining two of the diorama-sized bridge kits into one is tricky, you should try it with two of the nickel-sized cutaway bridges!)....

Also, I've already finished the Potemkin and the nacelles for the Hood. So it's a little too late to follow the remastered version (what a bummer, though-- that's definitely what I would've done, if I'd known about them before I started the Excalibur!).

I've already drawn up plans of what I'm gonna do to the rest of the Hood, but I'm a little at a loss for how to make the Lexington distinct from the rest, but still stay reasonably true to the dialogue-- while doing some hopefully interesting damage that is unique to this ship. One thing I'm considering is tearing open the port rear of the primary hull near the impulse deck (trying to get the same look as the starboard bow damage to the Constellation in the remastered "TDM"). But what else? Excalibur has damage to both warp nacelles, and the underside of the primary hull is torn open pretty badly; Hood & Potemkin each have one nacelle blown open. One of the Hood's and one of the Excalibur's nacelle pylons are badly shot up, and both the Hood and the Potemkin have serious gashes in the secondary hull. Of course, all I have of the Hood at this moment are the finished nacelles, but the rest of her damage has been mapped out on paper......

Any suggestions would be most welcome! :)
 
R

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That's rather cool actually, nice work on the damage and detail!
Keep going in that vien and they will all look rather splendid i think :thumbsup:

As to where the damage should be and how much, i would reckon that any captain would present as small a target as possible so head on or tail on to the incomming fire would be my thinking (but i could be wrong).

Maybe as a variance, one of them having been taking hits while manuvering and copped 'broadside' fashion strikes from then Enterprise?

The pics are just fine by the way so no worries there.

Go easy.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Thank you, Raytheon.

I like your idea. Dead-on shots, straight into one area of hull, instead of the moving beam of destruction. That's very clever, and I don't know that I've ever seen that particular thing done to a model. At least, not that I ever recognized it as such.

What would that look like? As the beam pierced deeper into the area of the body of the ship it was trained upon, would the outer skin continue to obscure the outside observer's view of the damage being done to the vessel's interior? Or would the outer layers of the hull continue to be eaten away, creating a cone-shaped entry wound that would expose a lot of the ship's interior to open space (and to the exterior watcher's POV)?

I don't know about you, but I find that latter idea exciting, interesting, inspiring!

I appreciate the thought!
 

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m5multitronic said:
What would that look like? As the beam pierced deeper into the area of the body of the ship it was trained upon, would the outer skin continue to obscure the outside observer's view of the damage being done to the vessel's interior?
I guess a hit taken straight on will look a bit like a bullet hit: A small entry hole, but a large exit hole (like the direction of the explosions of interior devices follow the path of the weapon beam / photon torpedoe path) with a lot of visible interior detail.

Just my 2 cents.
 
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I'll fully go along with Marco here.
Not that we are trying to give you more work to do here m5..honest ;)

Keep it going mate !

Go easy
 

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Any initial attack should target the major centers of a starship, mainly the bridge , the engines, shields and weapons.

Take those out and you can destroy an enemy at your leisure, this was shown rather nicely with Khan's attack in STII "They knew exactly where to hit us...".

If I were to initiated such an attack as the M5 did, I'd target the bridges and engines for the greatest chances of attaining a quick kill.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I agree entirely, Southpaw!

And I think the M5 unit would've gone for the quickest possible kill. It wasn't just "performing it's duty"; it was showing off, proving how mighty it was, demonstrating to everyone in the galaxy just how badly they'd underestimated Dr. Daystrom.

So: bridge, engineering, warp nacelles, the impulse deck-- those would be it's first targets. If it had even moderate success hitting those places (especially when the "enemy" vessels had their shields down), the rest of it's attack would've been little more than a mop-up operation.

That's what makes this project a bit on the difficult side. I want the Lexington to look different than the other ships. Commodore Wesley said that he had 53 dead on his ship; at that moment, the Excalibur only had twelve fatalities. But everyone on the Excalibur eventually died, while the Lex was still good to go for some more fighting, right up until the end.

I'm kinda leaning toward Raytheon's idea of a direct, full-on, non-moving phaser strike to the secondary hull; one that creates a conical-shaped wound in the side of the ship (exposing major interior guts, of course!).

I haven't done that sort of thing to any of my damaged Constitution-class ships!

One more thing.... where would an enemy strike a Constitution-class ship, if their main objective were to damage or destroy that ship's ability to raise and maintain shields? I just assumed that taking out the main power supply would do the job nicely. Of course, that's the same mistake Khan made..... :devil:
 

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m5multitronic said:
I agree entirely, Southpaw!

And I think the M5 unit would've gone for the quickest possible kill. It wasn't just "performing it's duty"; it was showing off, proving how mighty it was, demonstrating to everyone in the galaxy just how badly they'd underestimated Dr. Daystrom.

So: bridge, engineering, warp nacelles, the impulse deck-- those would be it's first targets. If it had even moderate success hitting those places (especially when the "enemy" vessels had their shields down), the rest of it's attack would've been little more than a mop-up operation.

That's what makes this project a bit on the difficult side. I want the Lexington to look different than the other ships. Commodore Wesley said that he had 53 dead on his ship; at that moment, the Excalibur only had twelve fatalities. But everyone on the Excalibur eventually died, while the Lex was still good to go for some more fighting, right up until the end.

I'm kinda leaning toward Raytheon's idea of a direct, full-on, non-moving phaser strike to the secondary hull; one that creates a conical-shaped wound in the side of the ship (exposing major interior guts, of course!).

I haven't done that sort of thing to any of my damaged Constitution-class ships!

One more thing.... where would an enemy strike a Constitution-class ship, if their main objective were to damage or destroy that ship's ability to raise and maintain shields? I just assumed that taking out the main power supply would do the job nicely. Of course, that's the same mistake Khan made..... :devil:
I myself would target two areas, First would be the engineering deck areas just behind the impulse engines. Strong chance of taking the power grid offline. My second target would be the dorsal itself. It's narrow and one of the major weakpoints of a Constitution class vessel. Break that link and you have isolated the two major components of the starship from each other... no auxillary control, no chance to evacuate crew from one hull to the other and a very strong possibility of rupturing the matter/antimatter containment from the concussion effect, which should make a rather spectacular and conclusive explosion.
 

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Here's a thought... It seems to me that a good target to aim at would be the joint in the secondary hull where the pylons come out from. If you want to knock out the warp drive, disable the energy flow. That point between the pylons would present the best spot to knock out both engines with one shot.
 
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Seems to me that all are pretty much valid points.
My thinking would be that if starships of say the TOS connie design were to have a fight, then it could all be be done fairly swiftly dependant on who get's the first shots in.

I think it would probably begin by going head to head jousting fashion so to present a minimal target aspect. It's in the passing rather than the approach that the most damage would be done to my thinking.

If one was to get the drop by going above the other so to speak, then clear strikes could be made to the engineering areas and the warpdrive nacelles/pylons.
Of course this assumes that the TOS connie is gunned up in the same way as a refit and why not i say :)

The dorsal and pylons being the targets of choice for a side by side engagement and so on.

I reckon it could all possibly boil down to who fires and get's the critical on target hit in first. Mind you that's just a one on one fight, one verses say four or five would also come down to firepower best untilized and some very serious combat tactics.
Since the M5 could think and initiate actions way faster than human crews it still makes the odds in it's favour so all things are possible there.

Interesting discussion folks :thumbsup:

Go easy
 

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Discussion Starter #18
It looked to me like the four starships in the battle group approached the Enterprise in a pretty standard "wing" formation. Their shields were down. Their phasers were set at 1/100th power. M5 immediately went to warp drive, and started firing, shields up, phasers at 100% power.

If you watch (and listen to) the episode, it appears that there is a brief battle, composed entirely of shots from the Enterprise, followed by a long period of talking heads, and then a few more shots from the 1701. At no time does it seem that the Enterprise was ever hit by even one single shot from the battle group.

I like to think (going off-canon here) that there were many more shots fired than we actually heard (perhaps during the commercial breaks :) ). I can live with the idea that the battle group never even scored a hit on the Enterprise, because in the earlier unscheduled wargames exercise, she was attacked first; after that, no other hit was registered on her shields. She maneuvered faster, delivered more firepower quicker, than human capabilities could cope with. M5 proved right then that it could take on and defeat comparably-equipped ships, and that was just a simple exercise.

When the M5 decided that it was time to play for blood, it went for broke. It used the Enterprise to destroy the Excalibur, and seriously damage the Lexington, Hood, & Potemkin. I think it sat back at that point and allowed the "enemy" ships to regroup, and take their best shot a second time. Like Kirk said: "They don't know it's M5's game. And M5 is going to destroy them."

I'm building my diorama under the assumption that M5's first strike was absolutely devastating-- after all, it was the one moment that it could hit all four "enemy" ships while their shields were down, and their phasers were all set for minimum power. It tore their asses up in the first several seconds, then waited to see how they would respond, secure in the knowledge that it could've defeated them in a "fair" contest, much less against their heavily-damaged situation. As I've said before, M5 was playing with them. It had Dr. Daystrom's old scores to settle.....

Anyway, as far as the doodad I'm doing is concerned, I'm assuming that all four "enemy" ships were hit very hard, very fast. So far I'm happy with the Excalibur, Potemkin, & Hood I've built.

My original question about what the damage to the Lexington ought to be has been well and truly answered. But, like Raytheon, I continue to find this subject worth discussing.

It is an interesting point of digression, no?
 
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