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Discussion Starter #1
1/4 Scale Manufactures are always on the edge on designing parts to be cost effective. There is technology out there to improve the cars,but at a cost. Such technology could be made available. Id like to start a general discussion of customers thoughts of the subject.
 

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My immediate thought is softer dirt tires.

Maybe tires that "air up" are out of the question but maybe plastic beadlocks on the wheel halves and then a regular tire with a soft foam insert?

Maybe there are not near enough dirt tires sold for a return on investment...I dont know but I would imagine most guys would pay a little more for better performance on dirt and that may even promote more dirt racing.

This is not to say that I dont like what you are doing currently because that is not the case at all. :thumbsup:
 

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I think that would depend on what exactly the technology is effecting, the benefits and the cost.

For reference, look at the mess the 1/10 scale brushless world is entering right now. There is a speed control that is definately faster but at a cost of almost twice what is out there now.

You quartscale guys have it REALLY GOOD right now. Simple rules, good competiton and great fun.

Do NOT screw it up by "improving" something for the sake of speed.

For example, say you guys opened up your tire rule by eliminating the mandated tires. This would allow you to make softer/grippier tires. That in itself would bring the lap times down. But at $200 per set of tires, I can full well see that some guys would not hesitie to have super soft qualifying tires and even have a new set every round. This would make it rediculous to be able to race. $1000 for a weekend to race a toy car? Now way!

Now the above senario is by no means meant to slam anyone, only one such example I pulled out of thin air, or somewhere else ;).

If you guys want to keep your racing close and like it is, make baby steps, little tiny baby steps when making changes. And REALLY think about those changes.

IMHO the biggest thing that needs to be done to promote Quarter Scale racing is to make it more visible. This is true for all scales.

You want more people to see and know about this stuff? Well they are not coming to us, for the most part. We must take it to them. How do we do that? Call the local news stations and newspapers, let them know of your scedule and keep bugging them. There are slow news days that they will come out and do a feature on us. Try buying that advertisement on TV.

Another way is to take the cars to a more visible location and put on an exibition race. Leave the computer at the track and take a flagman. Apporoach a local strip mall or big parking lot to set up a race. I know in the past there has been some resisitence to this, but the economy is down and lots of these palces are looking for something/anything to get people in the stores. Don't you think this would be a draw? I heard all the reasons for not doing it, insurance, too dangerous and "we build this track and we are NOT going parking lot racing when we have this track". And that same guy is griping about no new racers. :rolleyes:

When talking to the property manager, take a car or two with you. Be ready to run them in the parking lot and show them how they work. Most of all when doing the exibition, tone it down, for safety reasons. Only 3-4 cars at a time, reduce the speeds and always have cars on the track and people working the crowd, explaining what we do. Have flyers with the info on them. Bring all the trailers and the loudest PA system you can carry.

IMHO, this will do more for racing than any single product you can come up with.

Mr. Bishop, I apologize if this hijacked your thread. If you like I will be more than happy to delete this and move it to another thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Harper, We actually have a tire available that is a one piece molded ,pin spike,tire with a soft core. We've done quite a bit of playing with "air" tires,with the parts we have available, there just not dependable. It will take molds specific to make it happen.
Scott H, Promoting the sport is the best thing we could do, problem is it takes alot of volunteers and money to make it happen. The economy has hurt most everybody, all we can do is to be persistant and go that extra effort to make us grow.
Let me add some words to the subject: If you were able to purchase "better parts" for your factory built Race cars, either made by the manufacture,or aftermarket, should it be governed by design or dollar amounts or let it fly?
 

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You said improve the cars, or is it to improve the tires, which would improve the cars. Maybe a little more info if you could. Might help the thread from getting off your specific topic:thumbsup:. Got me curious more than anything.
 

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Are there not aftermarket replacement parts for the cars now?

Do you have to run the chassis as made? I do not think so, I believe I heve seen cars advertised of brand X with brand Y steering assemblies. Or something like that.

Isn't Freddy already going down this road? Making parts for all the cars out there? I believe he is making the parts to OEM specs for the respective cars but I am not sure. Now what if he were to find that moving a mounting point was an advantage, that would be a NEW part. Is there a QSAC rule that prohibits this? I think there is an "impact" rule, I will have to look.
 

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Correct me if I am wrong Todd but I think you are refering to the part of the Impact Parts Rule that talks about "excessive cost verus benefit to the racer".

Are you asking if the rule should be lifted or governed in a different manner?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Brent, I wasn't asking to change rules.
Lets take clutch bells for example. If you were able to purchase a trick clutch bell that was significally lighter than stock, and it costs $100.00 would you like that option as long as it was available to anyone? They are out there already!!
 

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Todd, great topic and glad to see you here. My opinion is that 1/4 scale as a hobby almost does not justify its own manufacturing. In another words... there are lots of GREAT 1/5 scale parts on the market today that could be used in our application. They would be cheaper, lighter, easier to get, etc... I am also suprised that the chassis in most cases (except larry cross) are still tube chassis. All the scale appearance has been cut off those chassis. WCM has tried to bring that back with their cage car, but other then that, their is NO reason to make them out of tubing. Aluminum chassis would be cheaper and much easier to produce. With these changes cars could possibly sell in the $700-$800 range, thats the most economical way to make the hobby grow again.

NOW... if someone had, lets say 500k to invest into the hobby. I would say building competitive SCALE looking cars would be a great idea. Lets face it, thats what attracted all of us to this scale to begin with. The cars need to be just as fun to look at when sitting there then they are to drive. With the proper funding, I believe a SCALE car WITH rear end could be produced and sold in the $1200 range.
 

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Sorry Todd I'm not trying to give you a hard time but that is what the Impact Part committee is supposed to determine.

Having said that I am also curious about what the membership feels is too much for "better parts" but I think has to be broken down by what parts we are talking about. In your example I wouldn't spend the money because I spent a lot of time and effort playing with lightened shoes, for two reasons, later engagement and less rotating mass. Not to mention that it was a legal area to play in with GN. After all that effort I found that the stock shoes work just as well. If there was a difference it was simply so small I couldn't quantify it. Are there other parts of the car that could use improvement? I'm sure there are. Would I spend the money? Probably because that's the nature of competive racing.
 

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reading this again, I guess I went off topic quite a bit.

I dont think any price is too high for any part. If you have a trick widget that is awesome someone will buy it at ANY price. Just because someone has dumped 8 grand into their car does not mean they will beat the 1200 dollar car. Now look at the bigger picture and impact that selling high dollar hi tech parts has... It will ultimately make the hobby grow. Hop ups attract people off all scales and lets face it, that is where the money IS made, motivating more people to produce more stuff while bringing people into the hobby that have significant expendable income.

Holding this scale back by 20 years by mandating outdated parts and technologies is not the way to go. It seems to me, the only real big change in cars over the past few years is shock positioning... how boring..
 

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The person setting up there own car is the one making changes. Shim it this way or whatever. This is change. Or are you wanting a Lengend class? Stronger replacement parts I'm all four that.
 

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Todd bishop said,
"We actually have a tire available that is a one piece molded ,pin spike,tire with a soft core."

If that is the soft tyre I have Todd, then at speed it certainly "grows". Looks just like a full-size sprinter! I love it!
I would like to see a similar tyre, in some different stagger sizes for the left rear, As Jeff said, there is probably not the market for the R&D required on dirt tyres at this stage.

Jeff said..."I dont know but I would imagine most guys would pay a little more for better performance on dirt and that may even promote more dirt racing."
I agree with Jeff... I would pay for better performance, which in turn makes for better racing which in itself is a terrific promotional tool.!

Anyway...Having said that Todd Bishop makes a superb product.
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Thanks Bob for that! You guys are right about tires, the market is not large enough to support making non profitable tooling. I do have a desire to make something new for the dirt!
 

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I have to agree with QSL! The 1/4 scale technology is stuck in the 70's with such items as the shocks, we need more realistic shocks like XRay makes for their 1/10 scale touring cars. They are like a real Koni shock, you can adjust the rebound etc. the body's also are not up to par anymore, they really need some updating, make them look more like a modern late model stock car or a cup car?? The more realistic they look the more the general public can relate and are more apped to get interested in thus making the sport grow! gust my 2 sence!
 

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No disrespect on the ones that say this is what 10th scale done the only thing they did was kill it I know that's were I came from the shocks we have are great and user friendly the bodys we have work 3 different ones that have different handling aspects shopping carts need to stay at the store we are not worried about driver safety unless bob elliot's driver comes out of his sprint there is some things in chassis geometry that could change but its not bad the way it is
 

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1/4 Scale Manufactures are always on the edge on designing parts to be cost effective. There is technology out there to improve the cars,but at a cost. Such technology could be made available. Id like to start a general discussion of customers thoughts of the subject.
Hi Todd,
I was just wondering what "technology is out there but at a cost".

This is no way picking on you.


For flat parts waterjetting is the cheapest way to go.Less material waste means more parts.Cheaper per part.Example:A-Arm $5.00 But the part needs to look pretty.So one can race.
CNC Milling Center with a palet changer.Saves time but someone needs to load an unload the palets.

Round parts CNC is ok. But a person needs to feed the machine.Unless it has a bar feed.Screw machines have bar feeders.Put the 12ft bar in then walk away.Example:Shocks $8.00 complete no spring.Springs can be made for pennies.I do mean pennies.

Plastic injection molding i already told you what i can get rims made for.Tires one phone call that was all i made.Just like the anodizing call i did for Freddie.

Do i want to make rims or tires no.

All that is needed.Would be for the manufactures to work together.Each one would make certain parts.
Example: One would make frames for everyone.A-Arms made by one guy for everyone.I think one can get my idea.

I saw a website say all parts are made in house.Then why is the price so high for the cars.Not picking just wondering.
For the dirt tires i have a couple of ideas there.Like Todd said tooling is not worth the expense.For tire demand.

For QSL and the Larry Cross frame. I wonder what i charged him?? And its cost to make.

Then it would be time to Advertize again.When QSAC or 1/4 scale was in their best years.Why was it?

I am not against anyone.Just Facts
I know its bashing time.It will be ok.


Just my few cents.
Ed
 

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Dam Ed I can't believe you said bar feed screw machine reminds me that I use to have a job and nightmares of operating 3 of them LOL
 

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Dam Ed I can't believe you said bar feed screw machine reminds me that I use to have a job and nightmares of operating 3 of them LOL
Brown&Sharpe Double OGS

They were cam driven.Somtimes one could use the same cam for different jobs.We had a 6 spindle also.Different machine forgot the name.
A Traub screw machine with bar feed 20,000 pcs a day.

Ed
 
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