[BolianAdmiral]

Okay, before anyone jumps to conclusions, or locks this thread, let me just say that this will NOT be about the gridlines on the model. However, yesterday during my evening walk, I suddenly had a thought that I wanted to run by the folks here, and especially Warped9.

I was thinking about the whole gridline issue, and how there were no lines engraved on the physical model, and how Matt Jefferies had wanted a smooth ship. I think I read once that MJ had stated that in his view, it made sense to construct a ship with as few serviceable parts on the exterior as possible. I then began to think about the two things the gridlines supposedly represent... literal hull plates, and the saucer's "deflector shield" grid.

Then I had a wild thought...

What if the gridlines on a starship are not the grooves between hull plates... what if they are quite literally printed or "painted" on? The idea is that if the gridlines (in-universe) create the deflector shields, maybe the grid is literally embedded into the hull itself, much like how the lines on a rear window of an automobile are the defroster mechanism, and create the heat field that evaporates the haze on the glass? I mean, we ARE talking about 23rd century technology here, and not current tech... I could imagine that by April's time, they could have nano-infused technology embedded into the actual hull segments of a ship's hull.

Anyway, I just wanted to post this, since the more I looked at the windshields and rear windows of cars, the more I began to formulate this take on the gridlines.

 

[Model Man]

By that time, they should very well be growing/printing their ships, imo. Seamless like a 1950's flying saucer. No more rivets. No seams, one smooth single piece of hull. Since it's mentioned somewhere that Tholians grow their ships, the Feds likely do not.

The future is seamless. It's far past time for current sci-fi to catch up with old news.

 

[Scorpitat]

Interesting concept idea Admiral. It really all depends on personal taste, or dedication to the original starship design. Some like smoothies, some accept grid lines, but are picky about their depth or darkness, to have aging and a rust ring on the saucer, etc., etc.....

It's strictly what the individuals' perception of the future is. Hell, some dont like the NX-01 simply due to its design. ( I actually liked the shape of that ship myself )

Oh well......the debate will continue on grid lines, probably longer than finding out who shot Kennedy, or if Elvis is alive and working at a 7-11 in Memphis. LOL

So Admiral, kudos on the idea......I like it!

Sincerely,
Scorp.:wave:

 

[J2 builder]

By that time, they should very well be growing/printing their ships, imo. Seamless like a 1950's flying saucer. No more rivets. No seams, one smooth single piece of hull.

I agree with that. The idea that they would weld ships together in the 23rd century like a WWII battleship is ridiculous. Especially in light of the fact they have matter/energy transfer technology. Why couldn't they just "beam" the ship together, either in sections or in one piece. Perhaps this wasn't possible in Kirk's day, but in Picard's era a new ship could slide right out of a giant replicator.

 

[Captain April]

Well, except for Gene Roddenberry's edict that any race that could create a starship just by pushing a button would be powerful enough that they wouldn't need to.

 

[Scorpitat]

Maybe it's just me, but I seem to recall in various Trek series and movies that during battles or confrontations, they refered to damage to "hull plating" locations at various times. Wouldn't they just say hull location, instead of hull "plating" if it was all one solid uniformed piece? Also, in STTMP, didn't we see the Enterprise in dry dock with various hull "panels" being put into place?

Not trying to start a debate here, just asking a serious question and if anyone else recalls hearing this.

Sincerely,
Scorp.

 

[J2 builder]

Well, except for Gene Roddenberry's edict that any race that could create a starship just by pushing a button would be powerful enough that they wouldn't need to.

I've not heard that before, but not sure I agree with it. If pushing a button will get me half-way across the galaxy without the ship, then okay. Does pushing a button to retrieve information from anywhere in the world mean I don't need to??

 

[J2 builder]

Also, in STTMP, didn't we see the Enterprise in dry dock with various hull "panels" being put into place?

That is sort of my point, I recall seeing this too and remember thinking at the time, why don't they just beam it into place? I also remember thinking the same thing in "Wrath of Khan" when Carol Marcus said took 6 months for the engineers to blast out the genesis cave.

 

[Opus Penguin]

As a kid I had always thought grid lines were the source of the deflector shields since they were referred to as the "deflector grid".

 

[Scorpitat]

I actually like grid lines......oh wait! That's griddle lines I like on my steak! Never mind! :wave:

 

[scotpens]

As a kid I had always thought grid lines were the source of the deflector shields since they were referred to as the "deflector grid".

Was there any reference to those lines as a "deflector shield grid" before the Franz Joseph blueprints?

 

[Steve H]

Was there any reference to those lines as a "deflector shield grid" before the Franz Joseph blueprints?

Not that I can recall. Only thing I remember pre-FJ was the 'deflector dish' on the engineering hull.

Me, makes no difference. I understand Jeffries' desire for a 'clean' ship, I understand the grid makes the saucer more visually interesting.

I really wouldn't be at all clear how that grid, only on the upper part of the saucer, creates a field that envelopes the entire ship. I think a case might be made if there was a pattern around the edge of the saucer.

So, what DOES the grid represent? What function might it otherwise support? Sensor network? Part of the subspace radio? How about magnetic web to help the warp field conform to the ship? OR a counter-field to help isolate the crew from effects of the intense magnetic fields of the bussard scoops?

Which, on continued reflection, would still make them a deflector grid, wouldn't it? Hm.

Actually, I'm kind of liking that idea. It explains why the grid is only on the top of the saucer.

 

[TrekFX]

......the debate will continue on grid lines, probably longer than finding out who shot Kennedy, or if Elvis is alive and working at a 7-11 in Memphis. LOL

Wait.... Elvis died???

 

[Garbaron]

Also, in STTMP, didn't we see the Enterprise in dry dock with various hull "panels" being put into place?

No, you don't. What you see are access hatches to cargo holds, workbee garages and the Spock airlock.

 

[TrekFX]

Not that I can recall. Only thing I remember pre-FJ was the 'deflector dish' on the engineering hull.

Me, makes no difference. I understand Jeffries' desire for a 'clean' ship, I understand the grid makes the saucer more visually interesting.

I really wouldn't be at all clear how that grid, only on the upper part of the saucer, creates a field that envelopes the entire ship. I think a case might be made if there was a pattern around the edge of the saucer.

So, what DOES the grid represent?

Well, if we want to go the "grown" ship route, we can imagine that technology isn't quite up to doing an entire ship in high-res, so much like a contemporary concrete structure like a building or sidewalk the vessel is cast in sections and the lines could indicate sectional divides. Could be from casting in-situ or join lines from assembly of smaller sub-structures (which honors the "history" depicted in The Making of Star Trek.) Weathering like streaks, rings et al could be from outgassing at seams (should have mixed-in a little Beano...) or for larger "panels" minor variations in specularity or other surface characteristics.

Just fantastic conjecture, intended only for pondering.

 

[PerfesserCoffee]

I was thinking about the whole gridline issue, and how there were no lines engraved on the physical model, and how Matt Jefferies had wanted a smooth ship. I think I read once that MJ had stated that in his view, it made sense to construct a ship with as few serviceable parts on the exterior as possible. . . .

Even with the grid lines engraved, it's still a relatively smooth hull overall and still in keeping with the concept MJ put forth.

And are we sure he was really opposed to engraved grid lines? After all, he included the grid lines in his diagram of the original ship:

He even included grid lines on the Phase II saucer and engineering sections which were engraved on the model that was partially built for the cancelled series:

I don't necessarily see a case for a perfectly smooth exterior and with the other details that were present, engraved lines were in keeping with the design aesthetic.

 

[run_forrest_run]

By that time, they should very well be growing/printing their ships, imo. Seamless like a 1950's flying saucer. No more rivets. No seams, one smooth single piece of hull. Since it's mentioned somewhere that Tholians grow their ships, the Feds likely do not.

I recall reading an article somewhere that for the motion picture the idea of the aztec pattern on the refit represented different areas of the hull being somehow spun, like a spiderweb, onto the frame of the ship in small sections at a time. So who's to say that this method wouldn't have been used on the TOS E?? Then the gridlines could be justified as the original framework that the hull plates were "spun" between.

 

[Opus Penguin]

Was there any reference to those lines as a "deflector shield grid" before the Franz Joseph blueprints?

Probably not. I don't think that was the only source but could not tell you if there were others. I know in TWOK they mention "Defense Fields" which surrounded the bridge of the ship. The question would be where these fields are projected from. A defense grid would make sense.

 

[RSN]

I just want to know why the deflectors, no matter what generated them, were so much stronger in TOS than in the films?! In TOS the Enterprise was seen taking hit after hit from Romulan/Klingon ships with no indication of hull breach and the shields held for a good long time. In the films, if you tossed a rock at the old girl, the shields were out on the first toss and it went through from top to bottom!

 

[sunburn800]

That one is easy its called power of the plot. The weaker the plot the weaker the sheilds and the ship are.