My sentiments exactly,,, I've been using old E brushes that I had bought in bulk,, these are the pre-big brush shortage ones... actually been using the same pair most of the season in 4 cell stock, just re-serrating them,, I don't know, I've got all kinds, some work not too bad, but these E's just seem to pull way better than anything else,, they worked well with the green2's, mid2's, p2k's,, I know a lot of guys have success with what you've stated, these have just worked better for me, using with monsters and green3's....I still never win ,but the motors ain't half bad, lol