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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I have brought this subject up before, and have had some input from you racers about bring back the sportsman class for new racers getting into nitro. I initially put a proposed set of "specs" on here and got a lot of ideas from you guys. What I have done, is sit down and tried to put together a viable class for beginners just getting into nitro oval, without having them spend lots of additional money moving up to the pro class when they are ready. Here is my idea, so let me know what you think.

SPORTSMAN CLASS
Same rules and specs as the nitro sportsman class rules now posted on the GASCAR web site, with these exceptions:

Engine: Dynamite 12SPD, stock, out of the box, with either the Associated or Losi clutch setup (stock configuration).

Muffler: HPI A870 with stock baffle in place, with NO modifications. Must have a stinger on the exhaust outlet that points straight down, and measures at least 1-1/4" in length from the bend (stock aftermarket). Mitch from Mobile Hobbies can verify this length.

Fuel: Sidewinder 16% Race Blend. This is manufactured by Morgan Fuels and has a nitro content of 16% and oil content of 12%. The fuel will be provided at the track, by GASCAR, in a community jug, and tanks will be filled in the pits prior to racing.

Gearing: Fixed gearing of 17/60.

All other specs are provided on the GASCAR website, under the original sportsman rules.

Its an idea, guys, and a place to start, BUT IS NOT OFFICIAL! Let me know what you think.

Tim Smith, President
GASCAR
 

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As a electric racer looking from the outside in...this will certainly help out us new guys into the gas realm.If we can get some races in the midwest I'm sure this class will come to life bigger than you would expect.

Tim...if you get a chance,send me a PM.Floyd said he contacted you and I'm wondering how things are looking.
 

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sounds like a good start tim. i am going to be testing the dynamite w/ some different fuels soon, so ill let you know. some other ideas i have are maybe cot bodies,spec tires and the 50oz weight or even heavier.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Kevin,
I did not receive a message from FLoyd....... maybe I just overlooked it, but have him contact me again, please.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
James,
I think the 50 ounce minimum weight limit is a good idea, along with the mandated tires. I am not sure how the COT body would work, as it is so vastly different from the ones we run in the Pro Pan class. I might have to just buy one and test it. But, I like the 50 oz minimum weight. Maybe mandate pinks all the way around, with a Net for the right sides.

Tim
 

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Tim

PM me what email address I can use and you & I can work on this.Floyd is a busy guy with his normal job...so we can work together with some dialog on the possibilities.

I know you're working on the schedule and it needs to be completed in a certain time frame.We're ready to step up...so forward an email address I can use or we can set up a phone call.
 

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another suggestion, let the pro drivers also run sportsman if they want to, they are already at the event, plus it would help car counts, but maybe make them carry a extra 2-4 oz weight if they are also entered in pro class so as to even it out a little. this also give the sportsman drivers a chance to rub fenders w/ pro guys. i know i like to run 2 classes at most races.
 

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I am going in a completely different direction with our .09 replacement for Easley, and hopefully other tracks. I would like to see GASCAR adpot the set of rules that I come up with for their sportsman division, but that is up to Tim and the rest of the GASCAR members. Personally, I see very little that I like in the proposed GASCAR Sportsman rules package. I will let everyone know how my testing goes tomorrow, and I have outlined what I am going to start with, and why, on the .09 replacement thread, and we can go from there.

Sam
 

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Discussion Starter #10
The purpose of the Sportsman class is for new racers getting into nitro. I don't think a pro pan racer would or should race in the sportsman class....... it will scare the new racers off. If they can't compete, or don't have a chance to win, due to pro pan racers winning all the time....... then why bother? The purpose of establishing a sportsman class in the first place is to have a class that will give new racers from either electric, off road, or other venue a place to start nitro oval. The .09 class (as it stands now) is not the division to use for new racers. One of the reasons i have heard that prevent racers from racing nitro oval is the speeds and high level of competition. They don't think they can come in and have a chance at all. There needs to be a learning curve for new racers. I do appreciate your input from everyone so far, and we will continue the discussion at Rock Hill to see what we have to offer. Thanks, guys.

Tim
 

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while i understand your stance tim, why would we, people like me and sam want to spend our time and money to develop a class, then be told we cant run in the class. we would be basically throwing money away. i like to be able to run 2 classes after driving 6-8 hrs or more to race, it makes it more worth the drive. by doing this you are basically limiting car counts, because no one can run more than one class in gascar period.

i think the weight penalty thing would even this out, whatever the base weight we agree on, make the pro drivers carry more. say 44 for sportsman drivers and 48 for pros in sportsman class. i do see the point of the heavier weight of 50 causing tire wear issues.
 

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while i understand your stance tim, why would we, people like me and sam want to spend our time and money to develop a class, then be told we cant run in the class. we would be basically throwing money away. i like to be able to run 2 classes after driving 6-8 hrs or more to race, it makes it more worth the drive. by doing this you are basically limiting car counts, because no one can run more than one class in gascar period.

i think the weight penalty thing would even this out, whatever the base weight we agree on, make the pro drivers carry more. say 44 for sportsman drivers and 48 for pros in sportsman class. i do see the point of the heavier weight of 50 causing tire wear issues.
Well then get you a Super Truck 1/10 Nitro class going. The idea of a Sportsman class is for new drivers only and to keep GASCAR going with new members.
You have got to offer a new racer somewhere to race other the the Pro Class. That would leave GASCAR with the Pro Class, Super Trucks and Sportsman.
Tim is correct by mandating ratio & tires, fuel and maybe other things. Good Idea Tim.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
James,
I didn't say you couldn't run in the sportsman class, or any other class. My stance is that we have to offer a class for the newly interested racers in order to have more racers come into nitro oval. Just having the same racers running two classes does not increase the numbers of racers, just the number of cars. Maybe we need two new classes? I am now throwing water on your ideas, I welcome them, but we still need a class for new racers, and give them a chance to compete equally. If we don't, then our numbers are not going to grow at all.

GASCAR is a racers organization......... its whatever the majority want that moves it. Bring your ideas to the Rock, and lets look at them. I have always been open to new ideas and suggestions. If we need two new classes, then we need two....... lets take a look at it.

Tim
 

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Discussion Starter #14
The reason GASCAR stopped running the Nitro Touring class, was because one racer had a never ending pocket book, and racers got tired of traveling 6 hours just race for second. He basically killed the class, because he always won, hands down. We ran the sportsman class for the first three years, but drivers moved up into the pro pan class, and only left two racers in the sportsman class. We failed to get new blood into nitro oval. What I have been hearing from most of our racers, is that we need new racers coming into the sport. To do this, we need to offer them something so they can compete. Not sure if trucks is the answer, but we need to come up with something.
 

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WHOA!!!!!!

IMHO and not so secret opinion. GASCAR does NOT need to start adding several more classes. Have you guys not learned anything from the electric debacal called Oval Racing? Sheesh! How many classes are there in electric 10? 20?

I have not commented on this as of yet simply because I have no plans at all to run that class. But here are some things I can see that are going to KILL it.

I do not agree with the 50oz weight rule. I think it is going to make for shrapnel on the track due to weight coming off the car. That and adding a mere 2oz, to the chassis is not going to slow it down near as much as one might think.

You want to slow this class down, then take away the thing that makes them run. Fuel, well really the nitro content. Drop that Nitro content and then you have cars with less power.



Sam I think you are on the right path of restriction. From some conversations I have had with people more knowledge on these engines than I, they have warned me on restricting the exhaust too much. The problem that will arise will be flame-out issues due to the combustion chamber not being able to evacuate itself of the spent gasses. So with you restricting both the input and output, you may be onto something.

As far as getting converts. I really do not think it is an issue of them fearing they cannot compete. I think it has more to do with they have so much invested in electric and have larger turnouts in those classes that they do not want to build up a car to race only once or twice a year.

The solution is for some of these tracks to build up a racer-base, simple huh? Just think if Easley had 5 or six NEW guys that ran Nitro every week, Rock Hill added some, The track in Indy and Pa, added 5 or 6 each. Suddenly we have 20-25 NEW nitro pan guys. Wouldn't that be cool?

As far as the .09 class having a replacement engine, that is DIFFERENT that a sportsman class.

I do not see any problem what so ever with anyone that is running .15's running the new .12(.09) class. Any of us running sportsman. NO WAY, NO HOW.

The .12(.09) class only needs to be different from the .15 class in terms of speeds. If there is going to be a "spec" tire or gear, that can be debated between you guys that run it.

For the SPORTSMAN/BEGINNER class, this class needs to be structered in such a way that is is EASY to run, EASY on equipment and FUN!!!

Run a low Nitro fuel, SPEC the tires/body/wing and gear. Also run shorter races for them. That will take some of the pressure off of them. Make the race length so fuel mileage is a non issue and well as tire wear.

By the way, the three classes discussed in my thread already exist uner current GASCAR rules. .15's, .09s and sportsman. :D
 

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i do like the pro,truck,and sportsman idea. im game to slap a truck body on w/ a dynamite motor on lower nitro content. 3 classes would allow stepping stones for the sportman to move up and run a little w/ the pros w/ the same motor just change body, when they feel they are ready to move up, but not quite to pro nitro.
i know some think 3 classes is going to decrease numbers, but i dont think it will under this format. the pros are still going to run pro, but may add truck as a second class. then sportsman sould hvae their own class, but they could also run trucks as second class if they wanted.
i know some will think my ideas are crazy, but hey we are in america and everyone has their own opinion. i do think 3 classes is the upper limit in # of classes needed, but still promote growth of the series. also maybe include 1/4 scales, as they have there own following.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
I don't see a problem with running a .12 class, and a .15 class, and an .09 class. The .12 class can be the sportsman class that already has rules on the GASCAR website. The .09 rules are also posted. Just make an engine change on the sportsman rules and VIOLA! My whole idea was to create a class for new racers just getting into nitro. If a .12 class is what is needed, then I suggest tweak the GASCAR sportsman rules a bit and we have it. I have been researching fuels the past week or so, and am looking for a good low nitro fuel to use in case that is what we need.

We already have rules established for the .12 and .09 classes. Why not just make the necessary changes and we have it?
 

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Discussion Starter #20
James,
your ideas are not crazy!! This is the way we make changes, by everyone having input. Please check out the GASCAR website, www.gascarnitroracing.com, under the "Rules" heading. I have tweaked the Sportsman rules a bit, but nothing is final. I just wanted them posted for all to see. I do think we need to include the OS12CV engine, since we all have a box load of them. I would prefer we stay with the rules we already have, but just modify them to make them current.

Tim

PS. 1/4 scale and electric have always been included in our programs.
 
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