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I just finished watching this and all I can say is WOW! It is just amazing,the detail and they way they remade this classic episode. The attacks looked more real,and the detail of the Constellation Damage and the Doomsday machine itself make this an episode worth watching. :thumbsup:
 

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It was worth watching for the 40 years it existed BEFORE CBS screwed with it.
 

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John, we get your point. We've been getting it for months now. You prefer the original versions, you don't like the idea of them being messed with, you don't want your fond memories being changed. However, MANY OF US LIKE WHAT WE SEE and look forward to what we see as a fresh look to a fine show. Does that make us lemmings for numbly swallowing what Paramount is shoving in our faces or does that make us open and receptive to, as Kirk said, "Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant."

I loved it. It was fantastic. I'm very happy with these changes, though I'm also content that the original versions are still and will always be out there to see.
 

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I liked it. It seemed shorter though. They must have clipped it for more commercials these days.

However the Enterprise moves too fluidly for me. It's as big as an aircraft carrier and I think it should move rather stately. This ain't star wars.
This bugs me with all cgi. Just because they can doesn't mean they should.
 

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Well, I've watched it about six times since it aired yesterday (I taped it), and I wasn't unhappy with the results. The effects that were added were fine with me (I didn't think it hurt the story at all), and it was interesting to see what they came up with compared to both the original and all the fan attempts for this episode.

Actually, the only thing that has stood out for me while watching any of the remastered episodes (including Doomsday Machine) is when lines are cut or scenes shortened. I realize that 1 hour dramas run considerably shorter now than in the 60's (something like 47 minutes back then to 42 minutes now), but I hope they put that stuff back in on the DVD versions.

terryr said:
However the Enterprise moves too fluidly for me. It's as big as an aircraft carrier and I think it should move rather stately. This ain't star wars.
This bugs me with all cgi. Just because they can doesn't mean they should.
Part of the plot point was that the starships were supposed to be more maneuverable than the planet killer.

An aircraft carrier isn't quite a good comparison model here... a carrier would be able to move that fast if it didn't have to displace tons of water. It wasn't the early ST:NV style fighter plane movements, so I'm not complaining.
 

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There is no resistance in space. Water has much resistance. Size wouldn't be an issue. Just mass because it affects directional momentum. It would probably powerslide as it turns from the forward thrust.

Still never seen any of the new makeover shows. Wish it would air here in Baltimore.
 

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Mass is the point. It still has the mass of an aircraft carrier. And it has nothing to slide against.

I watched it again. Spock said something like 'the bridge is out but the rest of the ship can support life'. Uh Spock, do you see those giant blackened pieces of the saucer?
 

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terryr said:
Mass is the point. It still has the mass of an aircraft carrier. And it has nothing to slide against.
Hence the slide... which is the momentum of the ship wanting to continue in the original direction.

Technically, a slide would occur with an impulse turn... but not a warp turn (as the momentum of the ship doesn't play a part in warp maneuvers).

But we should remember, science fiction is (and always has been) a two way street. The artist of the work try (within their means) to provide an intriguing story that doesn't abuse the reader/viewer, and the reader/viewer understands those limitations and agrees to suspend disbelief.

terryr said:
Uh Spock, do you see those giant blackened pieces of the saucer?
Actually... he doesn't.

The effects were done long after live action filming was completed. William Windom actually later expressed disappointment when he finally saw what it was that he was supposed to be reacting to.

This isn't the first time (or the last, sadly) that dialog doesn't match the effects. The later series and movies (with the notable exception of Star Trek V) did a much better job of trying to make everything seem pretty plausible.



But what I'm seeing here is that you aren't doing your part for an enjoyable story... you either can't (or won't) suspend disbelief. Usually the only time SciFi fans won't do this is if they feel insulted by the artists. Surely this story (in many forms) has been around long enough for you to have already decided that it wasn't worth your effort. :confused:
 

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Actually, significantly MORE mass than an aircraft carrier. The Nimitzes displace between 85,000 to 100,000 tons, depending on loadout. The Enterprise (if you go by Roddenberry's orginal quote and the one perpetuated by the Trek tech meisters) masses 190,000 tons. (Scotty's "almost a million tons" remark notwithstanding). And it's actually harder to change vector without the resistance of air or water to help you along, using only puff-jet RCS thrusters.
 

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It was great wish they had those effects 40 yrs ago I just don't like the hack job they did for commercials time they even took out the "Vulcans never Bluff" line (That Sucked)
 

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Roguepink said:
John, we get your point. We've been getting it for months now. You prefer the original versions, you don't like the idea of them being messed with, you don't want your fond memories being changed. However, MANY OF US LIKE WHAT WE SEE and look forward to what we see as a fresh look to a fine show. Does that make us lemmings for numbly swallowing what Paramount is shoving in our faces or does that make us open and receptive to, as Kirk said, "Young minds, fresh ideas. Be tolerant."
Oh, the former, clearly. ;)
But my point was, why do new effects suddenly make it worth watching, as the original poster claims? I don't know anyone who thinks it WASN'T worth watching for the last 40 years.
 

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John P said:
Actually, significantly MORE mass than an aircraft carrier. The Nimitzes displace between 85,000 to 100,000 tons, depending on loadout. The Enterprise (if you go by Roddenberry's orginal quote and the one perpetuated by the Trek tech meisters) masses 190,000 tons. (Scotty's "almost a million tons" remark notwithstanding). And it's actually harder to change vector without the resistance of air or water to help you along, using only puff-jet RCS thrusters.
Something to keep in mind is that we don't really know how Enterprise turns in TOS. There's also that all-mystical impulse engine that seems to make a ship be able to do remarkable things, such as how the E-D seems to dance and flit about in TNG.

So saying, I ain't got a problem w/how any vehicle moves in almost any TV show or movie, w/the exception of those ships that are supposed to be modern-era spacecraft, aircraft or the like. When an F/A-18 can produce tighter turns than it really can and then maneuver thru natural canyons like an X-Wing, I've got a problem....
 

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John, I watch the original ones on TVland at 12:00 centeral time actually like 12:15 anyway I think they are on evey night. I have seen only one remastered ep, what time are they on?
 

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John P said:
Oh, the former, clearly. ;)
Careful, John. Hal's got what I consider to be a valid point about your constant harping about how much you dislike the Remastered episodes. I don't think that there's a single regular poster here who's not read your posts - ad naseum - about how they "screwed it up" and the like. While Hal sort of set himself up for your quip, let's not let this digress in to some ugliness.
But my point was, why do new effects suddenly make it worth watching, as the original poster claims? I don't know anyone who thinks it WASN'T worth watching for the last 40 years.
Mayhap you should have just said that instead. I've got no problems w/folks stating their opinion and as a Sponsor/Mod ain't gonna forbid you from doing so - that's not why I'm in the U.S. Military, after all - so long as said opinion falls w/in the bounds of the TOS and specific forum guidelines. Just be prepared for the negative feedback towards your own constant negative pot-shots at the Remastered episodes that seems to be building up. ;)
 

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Shaw said:
But what I'm seeing here is that you aren't doing your part for an enjoyable story... you either can't (or won't) suspend disbelief. Usually the only time SciFi fans won't do this is if they feel insulted by the artists. Surely this story (in many forms) has been around long enough for you to have already decided that it wasn't worth your effort. :confused:
How do you know when I've first seen it? You're not doing your part to give me an enjoyable story.

Some people are making comments about the show, and others make comments at individuals.
 

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I have mixed emotions.

it is nice to see things that just couldn't be done the first time around.

OTOH, the star of the original show, to me, is the Enterprise, and that to me is the 11 foot model.

The new CGI Enterprise doesn't seem "canon" to me. I guess my major gripe is that it looks to grey to my eye on screen.

As a modeler, I wish they had never done it. As I see it, you can't accurately duplicate a cgi image in model form.

Duplicating the 11 footer is hard enough, lol.
 

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I get John's point, actually. The original series has ALWAYS been worth watching, at least I think so, and always will be. So some flashy new effects are exciting. They make it worth watching all over again, not that this has ever been lacking. Perhaps I should say that they make it fresh. You CAN NOT say that TOS is still within its "use-by" date.

Now, TOS, remasterd, IMAX? wooooooooo............
 

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I wonder if a person can love the original episode and yet hate the 18" (constellation) AMT model at the same time. Personally, I love both AND the new remastered versions. My life is good.
 

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terryr said:
How do you know when I've first seen it? You're not doing your part to give me an enjoyable story.
I didn't realize you had never seen this episode before.

As for doing my part, as I am neither one of the artists nor you, I am completely powerless to help you enjoy the story. I can tell you that being less critical and more imaginative will make the story more enjoyable, but beyond that the ball is totally in your court.

Some people are making comments about the show, and others make comments at individuals.
Comments about the enhancements (if they work for you or don't) seem to be totally inline with the original poster's point of the thread.

:rolleyes:

But at some point I usually find myself asking hecklers why they feel such a strong need to disrupt other people's enjoyment of something they don't (themselves) find entertaining. If this is your first experience with Trek and you've found you don't like it (and my advice on how it could be made more enjoyable didn't seem to help you with this), maybe it just isn't for you.

For the rest of us, we all seem to enjoy the show (which is a common reference for us) and are debating the merits of the enhancements in contrast with the original version.

If it seems like my comments started singling you out, I'd point out that the change from debating parts of the show to you and your views started when you seemed to be having issues with the show itself (rather than if the enhancements worked).

... which was almost as off topic as this post has become. :tongue:
 
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