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Discussion Starter #41 (Edited)
Thanks @ClearHooter!

The overwhelming majority of the work done needs to be attributed to @69ch (Eric). I am certain he is the one who did almost all of the original compilation of the different brands. I have yet to find any comparible listing to the one he shared with @juantoo3 (Wes) originally at Swiftys and with us here at HobbyTalk back in June of 2017. The vetting and updates he and others have done there - were and are more focused on the small scale 1:64 and smaller scales brands, but @69ch had already included almost all brands for all scales and even other material makers such as tin, plastic and rubber for example. Wes wants to still focus on the small scale listings here at HobbyTalk and we are lucky to have him continue his efforts to that part of the odyssey here. :cheers2:

The next biggest contributor would be @stanmax. Unfortunately, I believe Nick has since passed away now or has become to ill to participate anymore. I am still only half way thru his 1:43 primarily brand listings and it is is almost 2/3rds as long as the one @69ch had shared. His my acquistions thread is a marvel of different castings and information from over a lifetime of collecting from around the world.

With the master listings here at HobbyTalk they will include makers of all scales and brands and other materials. Those will be crosslinked to sections, topics and threads already made here at HobbyTalk - in time of course. And new ones as they appear. @Motorcade and @Pegers are challenging me to keep up with their new brands and photos they are showing in their recent postings across all the boards! :thumbsup:

Two dozen new brand name sections should appear in the table of content listings sometime this week. And more will be added shortly.

Any help that our members, returning members and members to come from the lurkers and searchers who visit us on a daily basis will be greatly appreciated.

So feel free to post up your additions, comments, concerns, revisions or questions as we go along.
 

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Discussion Starter #42
Definitely larger scale and HO and under are not as well represented on my list, so there is absolutely room for development.

And there are some newer makers out there as well that may not be represented. I see Yibao is missing, they picked up some of the High Speed tools after that company closed. Particularly difficult for me to keep up with are the Japanese boutique model lines and series, so any assistance with that is appreciated. Also pre-WWII makers may not all be represented.


<Yibao corrected, and Greenbriar and DTSC noted as distributors, -jt3, 7/1/2019>
Do you know what or who DTSC is the distributor for? Or is that the Canadian distributer listed with Greenbrier? :lurk5:
 

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I think it is most fair to say Eric / 69ch *instigated* the model list, it actually started as a game...there were multiple contributors and we all tried to outdo each other and ended up in a friendly quarrel over what was and was not...and that is where a lot of the nit picking over who made what came from. As an amateur historian with a business degree, my focus has been on trying to sort out what I can, but some of these business ties are so knotted they are nearly impossible to unravel. The collective "we" gave up on Universal, it is just so convoluted and uncertain, and one also has to take into account the political and business climate in China at the time (second half of the 1980s through the 1990s in particular...think Tiananmen Square and the guy staring down a tank). A lot of this stuff is fairly straightforward, I mean Hot Wheels is Hot Wheels, and the history of Matchbox is known well enough. But the "generic, no name Chinese stuff that wasn't meant to be collected" is extremely difficult to trace with any certainty. There is a great deal of supposition, there are plenty of hints and allegations, there are some intriguing points of evidence...but nothing seems conclusive, just when a guy thinks he's figured something out, here comes another curve ball.

Those are two extremes. Then there is the language barrier. There are some Russian and Eastern European models and makers I'd dearly love to know more about, but I don't read Cyrillic, and nobody yet has stepped forward to translate. Grell is a German company, and the association with High Speed is well known and something I've chased for a few years now. Recently, I've found items that make me slow down a bit before attributing to High Speed without double checking. I showed the old Muscle Machines Chevy Pickup and the Maisto Trabant in Grell packaging...so there are recent ties to Maisto (Maisto controls Muscle Machines now). Likewise, another company name has come up recently in my searches for Grell, Wörlein. At a glance if not paying close attention, the HO scale trucks do have a semblance to the High Speed models until you notice they are different tractors than what High Speed covered. I even have found Welly models in Grell packaging...so Grell has become resourceful in recruiting other companies to fill their orders since High Speed closed shop. From a business perspective, this is to be expected if Grell is to continue and survive. But from a collector's perspective it muddies the water, considerably, especially when you don't read German. Another name that comes up frequently in my searches for Grell is Gaudy, and at this moment I am uncertain as to what exactly it represents, if another line like Wörlein or Welly, or possibly another promotional distributor like Grell.

The Chinese culture doesn't particularly encourage collecting things...I hear from my wife pretty regularly, she just doesn't get it. But I can see some of that begin to change, as some China-centric models and names are beginning to enter the diecast collecting universe. Japan has been heavily involved in the hobby at least since Tomica (1970 +/-), and that has expanded now to the point that there are a LOT of boutique makers that I just can't keep up with, some of which get pretty pricey. Not to be left out, US and Euro boutique makers have really upped their games in the past few years...for a price. There are some really, really nice top shelf models out there hitting the market in the past two years...but they are not cheap. And this is just 1/64. I've long known 1/43 history is even more "detailed," and I figure I've got enough on my plate.
 

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Discussion Starter #45 (Edited)
Late yesterday evening, I had finally made it to the end of @stanmax's (Nick's) list of diecast makers. As I did this, I corrected the order of some listings and their placement by the most standard alphabetizing sequence with the 'nothing before something' rule. And then grouped all the listings in each # or letter division by their second letter. Also by the 'nothing before something' rule. And so on....

Next on my project list will be adding the remaining diecast brand makers from the Encyclopedia of Small-Scale Diecast Motor Vehicle Manufacturers by Sahakangas, Weber & Foster. Yes, even with the approaching 1100 current information brand listings already included here at HobbyTalk - there are hundreds yet still to include from their encyclopedia entries. Along with the brand association, the manufactures association (including used under license information), and their distributor associations; as known to them at the time of publication in, 2006. They also include information on promotional type diecasts.

Most everyone will know about these type of diecasts by those occasionally included in McDonalds Happy meals over our lifetimes. There are dozens more of those type listings; which, are not always food related promotions.

:cheers2:
 

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Discussion Starter #46
@juantoo3 you mentioned Universal above as a difficult brand to sort out - so I tackled it with the help of the Encyclopedia of Small-Scale Diecast Motor Vehicle Manufacturers by Sahokangas, Weber and Foster. I was able to extract a pretty good time line from their entry as Univeral in the master list, but the brand deserves a seperate thread to unravel the 47 additional associated names they reference to the Universal brand in their 1/2 page entry.


I had previously tried doing this with other interwebz listings for Universal and as you noted above for you and others - you just have to give up eventually. :cheers2:
 

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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
@juantoo3 you also mentioned the confusion and convolution that some brands and the information known about them causes. I have only done two alphabet letters A and B from the book so far, but it has already proven to offer some clarifications, corrections and updates already around those convolutions. However; as you know - and I know - and they reflect in their book introducion - it still will not be a complete list, nor will it be inaccurate in places and still contain some 'speculative' information, but for the time being it is the best we have on hand as a resource updated since 2006. And as the informatoin is being updated here - it will be getting better each day. :cheers2:
 

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Discussion Starter #48 (Edited)
....

<Scale Models (Joseph L Ertl, farm toys) added, and association with Ertl, and Smith-Miller (Los Angeles, CA, USA until 1979, currently resurrected in Lake Havasu, AZ, USA), and Vilmer (Denmark) -jt3, 7/4/2019>

<Zoomer Boomer added to Topper, Nylint, Structo, Turner (J.C.T.Co), Richard Murray Co (pressed steel) and Lumar added under Marx (also Line Mar and Collectoy as sub-brands of Marx), Girard, Tru Scale (pressed steel), JRD (France), Bonux (France), Kirk (Denmark) -jt3 7/5/2019>

<Kansas Toy & Novelty (slush mold, 1930s), Wörlein added, -jt3, 7/6/2019>
I made the corresponding updates to the master listins. For Girard, Structo and Turner you also have (pressed steel) included in your edited listing for these brands. Is that supposed to be included to the updates you made as shown above? Or is it a copy paste (delete) error? when they were added? I also added the Welly and Maitso associations you have in your Grell listing now. Are there any other updates you made to the listing post thatyou did not already lnclude in your update post, so far?
 

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Discussion Starter #49
I made a request to add 16 more casting brands to the table of contents listings today. When they appear I will begin transfering related threads to them. Most will be from the archived threads made previously and the new casting reference threads that @Motorcade has been making the last couple of weeks for various brands. If you have a favorite brand or collection focus you havent seen yet. Let us known and we will get it on the to do list. :cheers2:
 

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Discussion Starter #50 (Edited)
As you would imagine, it is going to take quite a while to develop and link the different brands listed here at HobbyTalk with a production history thread that may or may not also include a list of series names and/or casting lists.

If you would like to do that - based on information you already have on hand or have already researched; feel free to do that in the existing sections or as new threads - where one does not already exsist.

We do ask that you - not just copy from or cut and paste informaion directly from other sites or publications. But, do provide a researched type of informational summary - in your own words - on the brand being discussed. You do not have to include the series names or casting lists. Someone else may choose to do that later, or individually.

We would also like for you to include your references - at the end of the informational attibutional summary, so that we can primarily establish a network of diecast information. Information that is also useable to current and future collectors. If from a publication, then we have an old school reference that others can find or go to for their own research purposes.

You also need to be willing to incorporate new information into your Original Post on the brand that is added or noted by others over time.

And lastly you need to have the understanding that your post may be moved or edited for format uniformity and searchability wording - both here at HobbyTalk and across the WWW.

And to allow consolidate of information in the first post of the relevant thread, if you do not do that yourself.

More than likely we will not delete a thread or post, but that is never off the table within the TOS agreement.

Here is a link to a thread on AUTOart that you can use to understand the format and content resources as desired. https://www.hobbytalk.com/bbs1/2061-autoart/589585-autoart-production-history.html

Thanks in advance to anyone who can add to the listings and information about them. We will do our best to ensure you are credit as a member for your contributions. :cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #51
I finally made it to the end of the Cs. Only found one more party favor listings, but I am still finding current examples (as described) at party stores, big box stores, grocery stores and drug stores.

I also started addressing the more well known diecat brands as threads are posted about them and sections are being created by VS Admin.

Consideration of the term marketing needs to be also include since several companies not only are distributors of other manufacturers diecasts, but also contract to have diecasts made for them to be distributed under their house brand.

:cheers2:
 

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I made the corresponding updates to the master listins. For Girard, Structo and Turner you also have (pressed steel) included in your edited listing for these brands. Is that supposed to be included to the updates you made as shown above? Or is it a copy paste (delete) error? when they were added? I also added the Welly and Maitso associations you have in your Grell listing now. Are there any other updates you made to the listing post thatyou did not already lnclude in your update post, so far?
My previous list was light on pressed steel models...very few (if any) are 1/64, so they didn't get a lot of attention previously. I happened to be looking around the 'bay and found these particular makers, in sufficient quantities (some I already knew) to feel confident they are accurate, but I listed behind those names that they made pressed steel (models). It is possible they made other things too, but that is what I found for them. Girard, Turner and Structo in particular are pre-WWII. And since these companies made larger scale models, they will not be in "the book" as Kimmo, Dave and Mark were only documenting 1/64-ish models.

I haven't made any other additions or corrections while I was away. I thought it best to note the corrections I make with date so folks like you would be able to note them.
 

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Consideration of the term marketing needs to be also include since several companies not only are distributors of other manufacturers diecasts, but also contract to have diecasts made for them to be distributed under their house brand.

:cheers2:
Correct. This is where the likes of MarzKarz and Ja-Ru come in, and Imperial would be a poster child for this.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
My previous list was light on pressed steel models...very few (if any) are 1/64, so they didn't get a lot of attention previously. I happened to be looking around the 'bay and found these particular makers, in sufficient quantities (some I already knew) to feel confident they are accurate, but I listed behind those names that they made pressed steel (models). It is possible they made other things too, but that is what I found for them. Girard, Turner and Structo in particular are pre-WWII. And since these companies made larger scale models, they will not be in "the book" as Kimmo, Dave and Mark were only documenting 1/64-ish models.

I haven't made any other additions or corrections while I was away. I thought it best to note the corrections I make with date so folks like you would be able to note them.
So I am understanding you to say - yes they were all pressed steel makers. :thumbsup:

Folks like me appreciate how folks like you make our lives seemingly easier. :cheers2:
 

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Discussion Starter #56
Correct. This is where the likes of MarzKarz and Ja-Ru come in, and Imperial would be a poster child for this.
Great that is the path I have started down. :cheers2:



Hope your vacation was issue free! :thumbsup:
 

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Hope your vacation was issue free! :thumbsup:
More of a working vacation, but I think it went well, gauging by the feedback I received. I did stretch it out a bit to take in a toy show yesterday, then a big hustle to make it home today. Lots of nice "new" goodies to show when I get a round tuit.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I have made it through the Ds and Es now and settling on a convention of

` means they are listed in the Encyclopedia of Small-Scale Diecast Motor Vehicle Manufacturers - Sahakangas, Foster & Weber (2006) and we need a descriptive thread or posting or if the enty is small i provide a brief description there already, that notaton will be removed as they are linked up to other pages/threads

'name' - name of company

'(country)' - their primary location

'year', - years of production or range if known provided

'info' - as above depending on the company and what they do (or did) I usually start with manufacturer, distributor, marketing, importer, etc., but many did one or more function; a scale range if given or known, associated brands, etc. If an extenisive history, we need a write up post or thread or if aleady hyperlinked we have an existing section page or thread for them in place.


:cheers2:
 

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Discussion Starter #59
VS Admin added another 2 dozen or so brand names to the TOC page this week. I also have another list of brands with only one or two posts so far that we can add indiviually as other threads begin appearing consistently.

Thoughts or comments? :lurk5:
 

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Discussion Starter #60
I am up to the Ns now. No more party favor companes, but I did see two posts about Hot Wheels 'party favors' and cake toppers this week! :thumbsup:

I have added a few brand historys and casting lists threads as I have had time. Have gotten stuck in Mettoys a few times now, but hopefully will have it better organized later this week. The AMT> Mego>Tuffy histories were a very nice relearning experience for me - and reminded me a have few of their Corvette models to track down. All of this has me behind in my own accumulations threads and linking the casting threads that @Motorcade has been adding on a daily basis.

Mrs Fox picked up few vintage gems to share with you from my Brother and I have also begun picking up some vintage packaged items at the local toy shows this month to share as well.

We have a new first time show coming up this weekend in a new area of the DFW metroplex, so more goodies may be presented that I havent already seen.

:cheers2: MFR, SM
 
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