[Pete McKay]

Figuring the average modified slot car will run about 10-12 MPH there wouldn't be but a few grams of downforce before it became overruled by drag. Then again, a complicaed fixture would add weight, and the whole purpose of a lexan body (or in my case, PETG) is to be lightweight to the extreme. Whatever is used to fix the wing to the supports must be solid, light and be removable for wing replacement.

I found some 2-56 X 1/4" machine screws that may work. The width of the supports are wide enough that the screws will fit inside them, and 1/4" may be all the hold it needs in a hard shunt. The other alternatives are to glue the wing, which causes the joint to be brittle, or two sided tape, which is not going to work due to the small footprint of the wing/support joint. Also, I tried attaching a wing to the cage of a sprinter with body pins and crashing hard a few times. The wing came off pretty easily and once the holes had the pins reinserted a few times the wing wouldn't stay on at all. I tried the screws next and it held way better. My problem is I'm limited by the width of the support, in this case it's .060".

If slippery is the key, then why have a wing at all? Is another few grams of DF worth a gram or two of drag (from the supports)? And where the DF is needed most (in the corners) the car will have slowed significantly as to negate the downforce anyway. It's maddening, do we push for a nice, realistic looking car or one that will win through styling points.

The cockpit top is on, the wing supports are also on. I have material coming to draw a few examples for testing. If wing attachment becomes complicated once the prototypes are made then I'll remove the supports and think of something else.

Oscar, you'll get a couple when it's completed, wing and all. If I sell a couple of Fords this week I'll send a few out to selected guys who participate in a racing series for testing....postage is expensive for something that weighs almost nothing.

 

[Pete McKay]

OK, some good news and some bad news.

The mold is done, and I did some draws on it last night and this morning. The initial production run of 6 cars was made and I noticed that the plastic was not being pulled down into the front radiator scoops I worked so hard to make. I did the 6 then drilled two small relief holes in the bottom of the vents, and drew 6 more. The plastic didn't get pulled all the way down but there are nice vent scoops now. So I did 6 more of the revised mold.

Unfortunately I was drawing the cars very quickly, like 2 per minute, and warped two areas of the mold. I didn't notice until I painted two of the revised cars, there is a small artifact on the nose and another on the right side window area. Small, but definately something that needs to be corrected before they go out as production cars. For you guys that will be testing, you will get the cars with small artifacts on them...remember, this is testing to basically destruction, they don't need to be perfect for that.

Oscar and Montoya, e-mail me a snail mail address and I'll get you out two cars each of the original version (v.1) and the revised scoop version (v.2) in the mail on Friday. A third set of cars will be sent to Marty the following Tuesday (after i fix the artifact). I'd like you guys to paint them, race them and then please post a no BS review, good or bad. if the design sucks, say so, and tell me where to fix it.

And for God's sakes, if you have a digital camera, please take a picture for me, my battery still hasn't arrived and nobody else knows what these things look like. I do intend to sell them as soon as they're perfected.

 

[Pete McKay]

Testing Update

I painted myself up a v.1 car and used a fine line permanent marker to draw in the details like fender vents, panel lines and the like. It actually looks pretty good, the v.1 cars look like they could be a front engined Panoz enclosed cockpit car. The screw idea was trashed as the screws were just way too big. I used some gap filling super glue to attach my rear wing, which is actually a part trimmed from the body (more on that later).

I don't have a road course so I had to use my key and get into my neighbors garage to use his. It's OK, he does the same to get into my spa...it all works out. Anyway, using a stock Tyco pan chassis car with plates glued to the sides for body mounts (using 2 sided tape) the body sites nice and low. The cabin sweeps up from the nose and sits more aft that I had planned, but again, it has that Panoz look so it's OK. The wing sits just behind the rear wheels but has some body work that sticks out further behind it, protected from all but an upside down rear impact. I actually trimmed my body higher than designed in back, cutting off the molded in rear bumper and using that piece as the wing. It works nice with the molded in sideplates.

Testing involved crashing repeatedly at the end of the 19.5' straight. I'd say impacts were between 8-12 mph, an impact dislodged the rear axle but the wing attachment was just fine. I then set up the timing system and ran some hot laps. Now, road courses were never my strong point, especially in stock class, but I was running in the middle of the times set during the last event in a car set up for racing ovals. I don't think to body had much to do with that, but it certainly looked good doing it. I did crash on a slower part of the track and knocked the attachment loose on one of the braces, but another drop of glue and I was off again. I may get some silicone adhesive, something a bit more flexible, for future wing attachments.

After this body gets tested worldwide (hey, it's going to England for testing, so I can say that) and whatever shortcomings are fixed I'll have it for sale on my upcoming Team AMG Racing domain. Look for it to be ready in March. While being generic in shape and design, it will more than likely carry the name Odyssey, a departure from my wife refering to it as an "oddity".

 

[Montoya1]

This all sounds fantastic.

 

[Bill Hall]

Don't Laugh, but what the heck?

Hi Pete, Over the weekend I spotted something light and nifty that might work for your wing attachment/detachment. Our youngest granddaughter had a little jumper on. The jumper had some little micro snaps to fasten it. They used to be metal back in the day, but these were plastic, delrin or the like. Very durable. There were about the size of the Smilie Icons. I thought the female end could be hidden under body, flexibly mounted with silicone. Just a small neat hole would be required to snap the wing in/through. Without pics I'm not yet sure how the male end would be mounted to the wing/strut. Got a battery yet? However I'm fairly certain it could be done unobtrusively with a quick trim to shape. Sounds strange, I know. The gang's probably laughin' their asses off (I am.), but perhaps some good can come from Lauren's poopy diaper. LOL

 

[Pete McKay]

The top of the mount is really small. I mean it's maybe 3/16th long and about half that wide. I made another wing attachment with a silicone adhesive last night and had to let it dry overnight. It will be tested late this evening. Deane's cars will be on their way to England today for delivery in about a week. I haven't heard from Marty for a few days so I'll assume he's pretty busy with real life stuff. Bill if you want to send me your snail mail I'll send you Marty's cars and make it up to him later. They can be in your hands Monday or Tuesday and you can help me work out this attachment.

I have my first road course event with the guys that broke away from my group this Saturday and the Odyssey will be debuted in the Modified Class there. Only one of that group has seen it, and he was sworn to secrecy about it's arrival. My car will be the v.1 with the flat nose, which I'm really starting to like a lot more than the one with the molded in vents, so v.2's may become a collectors item depending on what you and Deane let me know about the styling.

The next project is already on the drawing board: Basically the same car with an open cockpit, which this was supposed to be anyway.

 

[Bill Hall]

Thanks Pete, It would be my pleasure, but please dont short Marty! We only live 65mi apart. Send me one of the worst culls from the first batch. No sense in ruining a collectable with R&D (ruination & destruction, LOL). I'm pretty sure Marty would post it to me if you send it with his cars as well. Wadda ya say Marty? You can also snail me at: Bill Hall, 520 E. "H" St. , Shelton WA, 98584 -Email is: [email protected]

 

[Pete McKay]

They'll be in the mail on Friday Bill, As far as the worst culls, I do fairly good work so I tend to toss the bad one's out immediately. R&D is what I do best, I broke a chassis tonight in road course practice, but the wing stayed on. Figure that one out. I will include a complete race-ready car as well. I'm working on my body I'll be actually racing on Saturday now, a very sharp Martini Ford Rally sort of paint scheme.

But I do have a "press release" to submit. I didn't see a general information section, but this concerns my production so I'll set if loose here:

"It only took 20 years, but the original vacuformer that Team AMG built their success on had finally worn out. That’s right, worn out. The racking system that holds the plastic in place broke some 10 years ago. The square framing, made of Plexiglas and ¼ inch thick, has been exposed to high temperatures and stress over and over, and high stress of being slammed down over a mold to produce bodies. While the air box is still intact, a whole new smaller and more efficient air box and racking system is being designed. The old system required a 4 ¼ by 6 inch sheet of PETG to create a body, and the large clamp style clips didn’t work well once they were heated repeatedly.

The new system will use a smaller 4 ½ by 3 inch piece of .015 instead of the .010 previously used. “Since the margins are smaller the plastic must be thicker to avoid thin spots.” Testing in both .010 and .015 will be conducted to see which thickness is best suited to the new air box system.

Another benefit of the smaller air box is that instead of just 4 bodies per 9 by 12 inch sheet, AMG will now be able to produce 8 bodies, dropping the cost of each body to make from 48 cents each to just 24 cents each. “Figuring spoilage from the manufacturing process and other factors, it would still be less than 30 cents per body to produce.” Cost of the new air box has not been released but was said to be less than the cost to build the original box, which was $15.00 in 1986."

(Sorry, you guys will still have to pay $2.00 each when I start selling them. )

I'm working on a website that will ultimately be www.teamamgracing.com, right now most of that info is at Team AMG Racing. I should be able to resume production after the new air box is done.

 

[Bill Hall]

McKay Odyssey Impressions

I received my shells two days ago. Plus some bonus Pinto prostock shells! Thanks Pete. Pete's "Outback" sponsored prototype is sitting on my laptop as I rattle this off. It looks fast just sittin' there. The version 1 Odyssey shell has an aggressive front profile. The front scoop that Pete agonized over turned out nicely! It also provides some necessary stiffness in the front dam area. The center hood section plunges nicely between the sweetly radiused front fenders. She's got some fine cleavage up front. LOL. An ovular canopy/cockpit area transitions up smoothly from the frontal section. It is nicely contoured and proportionally matched to the overall car. Two roof vents behind the canopy pulled down great. They are crisp and sharp. The rear roof angle is a bit sharper than the front canopy angle and tapers aerodynamically down between the rear wing supports. It finishes neatly at the rear apron which spans the rear of the body. The wrap around rear apron stiffens the rear body and transitions seamlessly forward into the curvaceous rear fenders. The wing supports are bulletproof. They are the strongest portion of the body. This is one pretty baby! Actual track tests were done with both the G-plus and 440X2. For mounting a double thickness of 3M two sided emblem tape was used. This is a gorgeous car. Before I realized it I had hypnotically run a good 50 laps day dreaming away while watching this sweetheart scoot. Then I woke up and let fly! Numerous barrel rolls and cartwheels were executed as well as the obligatory WOT straight on drywall plasters. If you've been following this thread this is the same body that Pete had broken the wing off and repaired in previous testing. It took 19 shots to finally severe the wing again! I modified the wing supports by slicing the top skin off to open a hole. Clear RTV was squeezed in from below till it prariedogged topside through the holes, the wing contact patches were roughed with 220 paper and lightly dabbed with silicone. The silicone worked nicely in that it gives you the fidget time to set the wing perfectly. The following day after curing, per Pete's previous instruction, the acrobatics continued with no ill effects to my goobered wing. The silicone, albeit a skoshe heavier than super glue or it's like, provided the needed flexibility for wing survival. Currently I'm vacillating on color schemes for my other unfinished shells. Ferrari red, deep Ford blue, maybe even a bug gut Chartreuse green. All in all a well thought out and beautifully executed design. Kudos Pete! My hats off. If you wouldn't mind I'd like to post a pic of the thrashed "Outback"? This has been a blast! Many thanks. BH

 

[Pete McKay]

Bill thanks for the testing. Please, post pics of whats left of the Outback car as well as the v.1 once you get one painted. In a couple of days my custom painted Martini/Ford racing Focus will be posted, this car is an eye opener. We had our road course event on Saturday and the new Odyssey took a first and my car took 4th. I now have orders for 6 from other racers locally. I think you hit the nail on the head about the nose being stiffer with the "cleavage" scoops. I have a way of plugging the relief holes under the body to still make the v.1 cars, but so far everyone has been happy with v.2's. I raced the car with the clear silicone holding the wing and didn't lose it the entire event even with some pretty hard shunts.

How well does it work? Well the guy who won on Saturday was running a full lap ahead of what he normally did in a two minute main. That equates to about 3 seconds in a two minute race. Call it an aerodynamic success of just plain mind games but he was very happy with the results. In a few days the International Testing should begin when they arrive in Deane's hands in England, and we'll see what he has to say as well.

I should be making more in about 2 weeks, I need to order the plastic and finish the new vacuformer. Shortly after I'll begin working on the open cockpit version. As Bill said the current cockpit is a bit egg shaped but I tried to pattern it as much after the BRUMO's car as I could. In my own testing it worked pretty well. The side scoops are very subtle as Bill said but they're more for appearance than anything else.

My whole complaint about lexan style bodies is they don't look like real race cars. I wanted this one to look like one, and I think it does. So, barring a complete trouncing from the British contingent it will not be changed. Sales will begin in early March for a couple bucks each plus shipping.

 

[martybauer31]

Just catching up with this thread guys, sounds like some cool stuff going on...

Yes, Real Life (tm) is getting in the way at the moment. Work has been crazy, I am heading off to the fray tonight with Team Northwest, and the week after I get back I am heading to Orlando with the family for a week to get my brain re-aligned. I do have a sweet new Brystal track in my garage, she is a beaut! It's funny, 2 of my 3 prized possessions sit in the garage, the Brystal and the 65' Skylark. My little boy stays in the house with me.

As for new stuff for testing, definitely send them to Bill before me, in fact Bill, I may send you some of what Petey has sent me to give them a whirl as well. I just have had no time at all for anything. That being said, the Pintos and 2007 late model is going absolutely nowhere. They are going to look sweet on my G-Jets.

Talk to you guys soon!

Marty

 

[Pete McKay]

Marty, when you get caught up let me know and I'll hook you up with anything you've missed. You guys keep mentioning those '70 Pinto's...I only did like a dozen of them and gave most of them away. I have 3 of them left for myself, and wasn't planning on making more...looks like I may have to. But unfortunately it's not something I can sell, since it's "not my design". I have one painted like a car from my home track in the mid 1970's mounted on a M/T car, and it looks awesome. I did intend on making more mini-stockers, I have a bug and a Karman Ghia I was going to convert but decided to do the Odyssey instead.

I'm going to be off work myself from the last Wednesday of the month all the way through March while recovering from an ankle reconstruction. It's an old motorcycle injury that has been allowed to linger more than 30 years. Time, weight and career have pretty much destroyed what was left. During that time I may do some more molds, but I'll announce that later. If anyone has any old, broken Tyco 440 rolling chassis or a Tomy roller they can give up, that's what I build my cars up on. Send it my way and I'll make you the first to get the new Odyssey Open Cockpit car.

 

[Bill Hall]

McKay's Odyssey

Here's a few shots of the version 1, painted and detailed by Pete, after repeated and severe bludgeoning. This body was shown no mercy. Other than a few kinks in the wing, and the subsequent fix, as well as some sticky tape damage to the internal finish, there were no ill effects. Pete, I blame 3M as their product couldnt retain the body during the mach 2 wall splats. LOL - BH

 

[Pete McKay]

Actually Bill that's the V.2, V.1 didn't have the nose scoops, but that is the final production version. So for all intents and purposes it's just the Odyssey. I'm obviously not a painter, my test body was even more crudely painted than Bill's was. I just paid $20 to have a Lithia Ford dealership painted version, so my Martini Ford Focus body will be up for sale....pics are coming soon. I know I keep saying that but they are.

As far as the paint coming off the body, that's not unusual even for a lexan car. Most of my cars will be one solid color with the rest of the colors being made up of decals. I've had great luck with waterslide decals if they're clear coated with a flexible wax like Future, and the Martini Focus is such a scheme. I'm now working on the open cockpit car designs, and playing a lot of Forza looking at the Prototype cars for inspiration.

 

[Pete McKay]

Odyssey D Production: Release Photos.

Thanks to everyone who waited for the first pictures of this car to make this string. I apologise for the time it's taken to actually get pictures up. I have a very old but unique digital camera that shoots directly onto 3.5" floppies, and the battery is not readily available. But it came today, so here you all are:

The original Version 1 car did not have the scoops on the front end because of a design defect on the mold. Only 6 of those cars were made and they're all gone. Here was my test mule as it appeared after suffering 26 very hard crashes:

As you can see the flat nose wasn't very attractive (to me at least), so two small holes were drilled into nose to allow air to be vented from them. Here's how the body buck looked after the holes were drilled.

This allowed the vacuformer to draw air and pull the hot PETG down into the vents. Depending on how hot the plastic was, the more it was drawn down. I found that plastic at 180 degrees worked best. After the holes were done the car essentially became the Version 2, now just refered to as the Odyssey.

The Version 2 nose is much stronger and less prone to deform as Bill said, plus it looks pretty good too. This car has accents from Microsport Decals to represent vents and other features. It has a mix of vinyl pressure decals and waterslide, all sealed with Future Floor Wax so that it won't flake off in a hard crash. This car was to be my car for the upcoming series but I'm having another painted with my dealership colors and logo instead. But this was the Focus that the car originally was planned out to be. This body will be for sale as shown in the very near future.

Another of my bodies was the DIRT Late Model, which is actually finding a niche in sprits car racing as well. Here's my catalog shot of the body:

Decals by Microsport, this body will also be for sale as shown on my webpage soon.

The last is the old sports car that some local guys still swear by. This buck was built in 1990 to represent the Toyota Supra GTO car of those times. But over the last 17 years it's been raced as several different makes and models, I even raced it as a Ford Fusion not too long ago. The design is such that it can use either 2-sided tape or velcro to attach directly to the chassis, no body posts are necessary. I guess that's one of the reasons it's still pretty popular.

That's it for now, in a week or so I hope to begin on the open cockpit car, and with camera in hand I'll be sure to film the birth.

 

[noddaz]

Thanks for taking the time to post that Pete..
Those bodies are really slick...
Scott

 

[Bill Hall]

Supra GTO

Pete do you still have the buck for that Supra GTO? That's "purty". I like curvaceous cars with a narrow waist and fat flares. After thinking about it, I'd like to see a proportionally correct version of the original IROC 911 RSR done too. Bauers 911 RS comes pretty close. Aurora's RSR looked like a batting helmet! God, I'm so old that I remember what cars looked like before "the shape of things to come" arrived! Acutely angular wedges on a horizontal plane was not something I ever considered to be automotive styling. Euclidian geometry be damned, I still like compound curves. That's why I like the Odyssey. Instead of the RSR, bring on the Karmann Ghia, wingless and de-bumpered, maybe some bodacious flares and subtle rocker boxes.

 

[Pete McKay]

Bill, still got that buck and even have a few bodies in inventory. I know what you mean by the 911 IROC, if I can find a SWB Carrera as a base I may attempt it. I do have a 1/64th scale Firebird IROC but it's totally unacceptable to work up as a body buck. The best diecast I've been able to adopt has been the '70 Pinto, but I can do a Vega, a Gremlin and a (deep breath) Pacer to the same wheelbase. I just hate doing diecast bucks, it's like stealing someone elses work even though I change a lot of things like I did with the Pinto.

Compound curves are a PITA, I tried to avoid it with the Odyssey. If you look at the buck, the dark places are where I sanded through the .010 plastic into the expoxy filler below. After I get the basic shape I fill the inside of the body with 5 minute epoxy about 3/4 full. It makes it stronger and easier to sand. The Karman Ghia (or Karman GTP) would be a long wheelbase car, the diecast I have is 1/64th scale but very long. Still a beautiful car 30 years later.

The open cockpit car will be nice but I need a broken chassis (or an intact one) to build the buck up on as a roller. I have worked up a few drawings of the Audi R8R and Caddy, but still need some more research. I don't do drag racing but I'd like to work up a pro stock too someday.

 

[Pete McKay]

Post Script:

I just counted the "pieces" of plastic it took to build the Odyssey buck, and came up with a total of 30. I used 7 square inches of .020 styrene, 3 oz. of epoxy, maybe another 1 oz. of CA glue and zip kicker, 2 sheets of 180 grit sandpaper, 1 each of 240 and 600 grit. I figure material wise it cost me about $10 to build the buck, and another 20 hours of sanding and shaping. If you had to pay me my Ford wage it would have cost you $292.60 including materials to contract it.

My toolset consists of three sets of stainless surgical scissors with curved blades at various degrees, one set of straight ones, at least one X-acto with #11 blades, two tweezers and a 1/2" wide file. And in the case of this car, a Dremel tool with a 1/16th inch drill bit.

 

[Montoya1]

Bill thanks for the testing. Please, post pics of whats left of the Outback car as well as the v.1 once you get one painted. In a couple of days my custom painted Martini/Ford racing Focus will be posted, this car is an eye opener. We had our road course event on Saturday and the new Odyssey took a first and my car took 4th. I now have orders for 6 from other racers locally. I think you hit the nail on the head about the nose being stiffer with the "cleavage" scoops. I have a way of plugging the relief holes under the body to still make the v.1 cars, but so far everyone has been happy with v.2's. I raced the car with the clear silicone holding the wing and didn't lose it the entire event even with some pretty hard shunts.

How well does it work? Well the guy who won on Saturday was running a full lap ahead of what he normally did in a two minute main. That equates to about 3 seconds in a two minute race. Call it an aerodynamic success of just plain mind games but he was very happy with the results. In a few days the International Testing should begin when they arrive in Deane's hands in England, and we'll see what he has to say as well.

I should be making more in about 2 weeks, I need to order the plastic and finish the new vacuformer. Shortly after I'll begin working on the open cockpit version. As Bill said the current cockpit is a bit egg shaped but I tried to pattern it as much after the BRUMO's car as I could. In my own testing it worked pretty well. The side scoops are very subtle as Bill said but they're more for appearance than anything else.

My whole complaint about lexan style bodies is they don't look like real race cars. I wanted this one to look like one, and I think it does. So, barring a complete trouncing from the British contingent it will not be changed. Sales will begin in early March for a couple bucks each plus shipping.

OK, sorry it has taken me so long to respond. My private life is in the crapper at the moment and although my hobby is keeping me going it is also the thing that has to slide whilst I sort out the other stuff.

As a result I have kept a couple of MK1s to paint and passed on the rest to fellow racers who I know have more time, inclination and skill. Only time will tell if they come through.

What I did manage to do was mount the painted up Mk 1 that Peter very kindly sent me on my Wizzard P3E. On sunday we had a national round with a typical UK track, 130' lap, 8 yard straight, every curve from 6'' to 18''.

The Focus did well and look truly stunning. I could lap very near to the times set with my BMW V12LMR, but I could be more consistant with the BMW, but then I would expect that of a body that is smaller and lighter.

I then switched the body onto an old P2E for some crash testing. Somebody had one of those Mattel speed Cameras and, according to that the Focus was clocked at 17-19mph at the points it left the track. The wing survived everything I could throw at it, I did lose some paint off the sides and nose but the chassis faired far worse with axles coming out every crash and eventually the magnet clip came loose and broke which ended the testing as I was not gonna risk my P3E race car.

Still, 11 crashes and the wing is OK. and three of those crashes included trips to the floor (carpet). sorry I have not done more for you Peter but thanks for sending the stuff.