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Discussion Starter #1
Class changes

Seeing as how it is now the “off season” and everybody has time to get on the ole ‘putor and raise some hell. I thought it just might be interesting to get some feedbackand discussion going. But there are some rules. You can say anything to want about the subject matter but nothing about the person(s) posting. You can say that an idea is idiotic but you can’t call the person an idiot. Also, the other way around, if someone calls your post stupid doesn’t mean that they are calling you stupid. Now if we play nice and are a little careful about our posts, I think we can get an excellent discussion going.

It has been suggested to me by a number of different racers that QSAC should have a more progressive class system. A system that is more like other car sanctioning bodies.
A number of ideas have been tossed around. I will present one to get the discussion going:

Truck - 8.5 plate with existing carbs and rules

Sportsman – 10.5 plate with existing carbs and rules

Grand National – 15mm OEM carb only, no plate, existing rules
 

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Discussion Starter #2
My first concern is possibly killing the GN class because it is really, really going to require expert throttle control and a strategy to save the car for the entire race without burning up the tires. Guys are going to get tired of blowing up tires at $50 a pop.
 

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I feel that the GN class the way it is is as fast as they should be going... If there is another size of restrictor between 8.5 and 10.5, or even going smaller than the 8.5, i would say that would be the way to go... I am sure there are some of us who could handle the extra speed like you said as far as throttle control and what not, but the whole tire wear issue i think would definitley kill the class... And Brent you are not an idiot and this thread is not stupid... There i said it... :wave:

My thought would be:

Sportsman - 7.5 plate

Truck - 8.5 plate

GN - 10.5 plate

Just saying this order because i know the truck guys like going faster than the sportsman guys... but i don't know if a 7.5 plate is even pheasable...

Just my opinion... :thumbsup:
 

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Trucks 8.5

Sportsman / GN : 9.5 (One car class)

Sprint 10.5

Trucks would be a stepping stone to the car class (the way it should be). With a (new) 9.5 plate the lap times would only be 3/4 to a tenth slower than what we turn now (example 6.5 to 6.6) with a 10.5 (GN), plus, it would a bit easier to "hook" up....The other benefit would be on tires. It would be a tiny bit easier on RR tires.

Looking at the "Big" picture this is way to go IMO........Large car counts will draw more racers to our sport. Numbers breed numbers...No one wants to race with two or three cars (or trucks). Plus it doesn't look very appealing from the stands.
 

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IMO slowing the cars down with just a smaller restrictor is not the way to go. It becomes a momentum class and we end up teaching drivers bad habits. Less power encourages them to drive deeper into the corner and stay in the throttle longer instead of learning how to lift.

This actually makes the learning curve tougher as they move up to faster classes.

If you want to slow the Rookie and Sportsman classes down look at ways to kill the corner speed. Put rules in place that tighten the cars up and make it easier for a new racer to drive.

My thought is a class structure that would offer a progessin in speed and adjustability as a drivers skills improve.

Rookie - 8.5 Plate, Mandate a 25Lb, LR Spring. Spec 96 LF and a 66 RF

Sportsman - 8.5 Plate, 25lb LR spring, 96 LF and RF

Truck - 8.5 Plate, 96 RF, No spring restriction.

Sprint and GN - 10.5 Plate, 96 RF, No spring restriction
 

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I just don't see any point in slowing them down more and makeing them so tight they will knock the wall down yea everything takes time to learn you can and will develope bad habits in any class but if it takes the thrill and fun out of it what's the point in doing it
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Denny, Scott Schramske our Rules Committee Chairman did some testing a few years ago and found that anything smaller than an 8.5 plate really killed the engine. I’m not sure what engine he used and if it wasn’t the current engine perhaps retesting is in order.

Will, I understand the thinking behind one class but why the reduced laps?

Tim, Not me! At least not this time. I’m just kind of interested in seeing if there is or isn’t an improvement to be made. I was told that the Sportsman class was started as a beginner/novice class and it is certainly not that now. So it seems perhaps realignment is in order. Especially now that I am no longer a Co-Chair and have to deal with the headaches this could cause. I waiting for the blistering phone from one of the Chairs.

Mr. Reniger, Your position is noted and I sure am glad you didn’t personally attack me.

Scott, Your thinking certainly has merit. I’m not sure QSAC can afford another round of plates or how pissed everyone is going to be when they have to buy one.

Sonny, More good thinking. But is there such a thing as an inexpensive spring testing device for each track and can it be easily made portable?
 

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Ok i can see that being an issue as far as the smaller plate, and the possibility of upset drivers needing to buy another... Maybe just keep Truck and Sportsman the same 8.5 and leave it at that... 2 classes at 8.5 (Sportsman & Truck) 2 classes at 10.5 (GN and Sprint) The trucks naturally will be a tic slower than the cars due to arrow issues which would make the handeling a little easier, making that the logical stepping stone from Novice as Scott mentioned... When you feel like stepping up, but still not confident to join the GN Pros :)freak:) go to the sportsman... Put the same stock clutch rules to the trucks as well... :confused:
 

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Well brent the reason for the reduced laps is don't like standing up there that long and get a little more life out of the tires like you said 50 a pop on the smaller plate we tried that at lpr it starved the motor and on the spring tester compress the spring on a scale at one inch and you get a acurate reading on the spring rate
 

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I think you have the right idea of making the cars handle better but I don't think a mandated spring is the way to go. Not only would you have to have a way to rate them, but the actual rate would be different between cars. The wcms would have to run a 50lb spring to equal a 25lb spring on a Lightning. I think a good way to make them handle better would be to add weight or more spoiler. I'd like to leave trucks and gn.
 

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One more thin brent on the reduced laps there is a very good chance we will have a GN class at lpr next year and we will probably only run 125 to 150 lap mains the way it is now to me its just to long at ncs events you know after about 100 laps if you are in contention or not I just think it would be better with fewer laps
 

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My thought on the spring idea is it was more or less away to improve the drivability of a car for new racer and the racing. Yes it will tighten them up but it will also help counter act the dumping effect when a car gets loose.

You see a lot of guys spin because they counter steer after they get loose. Once they catch the spin they weight transfers back to the LR. The light springs we all run are not strong enough to support this abrupt transfer. The frame rails then bottom out and the car spins up the track in the opposite direction, usually causing a wreck.

Agree a spec spring weight would act differently on various chassis. Not sure what the best solution would be for that. I don’t think adding additional weight or spoiler would control this issue.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
And a 8.5 truck will wearout a 10.5 truck because its faster threw the corner
Although this is a little thread drift, I have to take exception to this statement. It has been my experience that good handling GN makes a great handling Sportsman. BUT a good handling Sportsman does not always make a good handling GN. I believe the the Sportman plate allows a wider sweet spot on the setup. Which may be one of the reason the class is the most popular. So going to GN from Sportsman you may or may not have the setup but not the other way around.
 

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I'm not sure that a big spring would do anything. It very well could make them handle worse because it wouldn't absorb anything. It's easy to over spring the lr. More weight doesn't slow the cars down but helps the cars be more stuck. We did this for a while locally but the downside is that a car that weighs 4lbs more, hits things that much harder. Bigger spoilers would help the handling without adding weight or slowing them down. The reason that trucks handle so well is that they have so much rear downforce. We are thinking of putting trucks on our local sportsman.:thumbsup:
 

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There is no sweet spot in sportsman you can eather hold it to the floor or not if you can hold it wide open they can't catch you if you can't they can me and gilly have proved that at our track for 3 years
 
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