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I was reading the CW's manual about what too do with a pushing car and one of the tips was to reduce the tension on the center spring. Can you explain to me why this would help?
 

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I am hoping you will hear from some more experienced racers, but I was told that increasing pressure on the center shock spring puts wmore weight on the rear end giving you more tractionand less stearing. The opposite, less tension on the center spring, puts more weight on the front end giving you more steering. Hope that is correct as I have been using that information to tune. Ralf
 

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exactly! Ride height also comes into play. Although the rear of the main chassis is raised with increased droop which would, in any other type of chassis, increase steering; the pod is tipped backward (adding weight to the rear wheels).

One other note to keep in mind is that turning the collar in either direction doesn't actually increase tension it just moves weight/changes ride height. A springs tension (rate) is constant unless its a progressive spring.
 

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NewTooOval said:
I was reading the CW's manual about what too do with a pushing car and one of the tips was to reduce the tension on the center spring. Can you explain to me why this would help?
It is a mis-type in the manual it should read...
Car is Loose or Oversteers

  • Install Wing to Rear of Car​
  • Slide Wing Toward Rear of Car​
  • Increase Wing Angle​
  • Add Wedge/Tweak to Chassis Using Side​
  • Shocks​
  • Softer Side Shock Springs​
  • Stiffer Front Springs​
  • Softer Center Shock Spring​
  • Decrease Center Shock Spring Tension​
  • Try Harder Front Compound Tire​
  • Try Softer Rear Compound Tire​
  • Move Battery to Center of Car​
  • Raise Front Ride Height​
  • Lower Rear Ride Height​
  • Move RF Suspension Out​
  • Move RR Tire Closer to Pod​
  • Increase Castor​
Car Pushes or Understeers

  • Slide Wing Toward Front of Car​
  • Decrease Wing Angle​
  • Remove Wedge/Tweak to Chassis Using​
  • Side Shocks​
  • Stiffer Side Shock Springs​
  • Softer Front Springs​
  • Stiffer Center Shock Spring​
  • Increase Center Shock Spring Tension​
  • Try Softer Front Compound Tire​
  • Try Harder Rear Compound Tire​
  • Move Battery Toward Left Side​
  • Lower Front Ride Height​
  • Raise Rear Ride Height​
  • Move RF Suspension IN​
  • Move RR Tire Away From Pod​
  • Decrease Castor
Steve.
TeamCW
 

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Erich Reichert said:
One other note to keep in mind is that turning the collar in either direction doesn't actually increase tension it just moves weight/changes ride height.
It changes ride height, but it doesn't move weight....
You can't move weight, unless you actually "move" weight...
 

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Wow....Until steve posted the correction I was sitting here reading this...I have been racing oval approx. 10 years.....And after drinking 5 beers...was thinking...Can I have
been screwing this all up for the last 7 years or so?.....thanks Steve...was about to
shoo myself in the groin.....Steves post is correct guys...
 

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bud3738 said:
Wow....Until steve posted the correction I was sitting here reading this...I have been racing oval approx. 10 years.....And after drinking 5 beers...was thinking...Can I have
been screwing this all up for the last 7 years or so?.....thanks Steve...was about to
shoo myself in the groin.....Steves post is correct guys...
Ya I must've been drinking a bit! LOL.

Dan I didn't mean it phyically moved it. I meant same way it shifts when change weight on each wheel when you change your side shocks.
 

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Good point (about the scales) Eric, put your car on a set of scales, read the weight, then make a seriouus change to the center shock spring tension and THEN re-weigh the car. Ralf
 

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Ralf said:
Good point (about the scales) Eric, put your car on a set of scales, read the weight, then make a seriouus change to the center shock spring tension and THEN re-weigh the car. Ralf
I'm not trying to start some sort of physics war here,
but this idea that changing your center shock setting, or the spring itself,
somehow adds or takes weight off the front, is just not sound.

You cannot change the weight of an end of a car, or of the side of a car,
unless you actually move something like the RX, or ESC, or your ballast...

Now... you can change the CORNER weights with changes in springs,
but never end or side weights.

This came up once before, I wish I knew where the post was,
for the sake of accuracy, I did three scenarios, two times each.
One was with a center shock spring, one without, and one with no side shocks. (iirc)

The rear weight was the same for all three examples, which it should be.

Anyone that has ever worked on real race cars, will tell you the same thing.
You cannot change front weight, or rear weight, by cranking springs.

If your scales indicate that you can, you need to get new scales..... :rolleyes:
 

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Dan said:
I'm not trying to start some sort of physics war here,
but this idea that changing your center shock setting, or the spring itself,
somehow adds or takes weight off the front, is just not sound.

You cannot change the weight of an end of a car, or of the side of a car,
unless you actually move something like the RX, or ESC, or your ballast...

Now... you can change the CORNER weights with changes in springs,
but never end or side weights.

This came up once before, I wish I knew where the post was,
for the sake of accuracy, I did three scenarios, two times each.
One was with a center shock spring, one without, and one with no side shocks. (iirc)

The rear weight was the same for all three examples, which it should be.

Anyone that has ever worked on real race cars, will tell you the same thing.
You cannot change front weight, or rear weight, by cranking springs.

If your scales indicate that you can, you need to get new scales..... :rolleyes:
By adding center preload you "transfer" weight to the nose, not "add" weight.
 

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Dan said:
Now... you can change the CORNER weights with changes in springs,
but never end or side weights.
I know your not Dan, it is possible for everyone to talk about this like normal people :) Maybe theres a misunderstanding, we are talking about the same thing... corner weight. if you move collars it does "jack" weight to differnt wheels and that is what I was saying as you said above too.

Tornado- yes you are right I guess the mix up was just in wording.
 

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In my experience if the car is tight running a harder center spring will really improve steering, especially at corner entry. I run the stiffest spring that track conditions allow.

Doug p
 

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I have never raced REAL cars but I have NEVER seen a real car with a "center" shock. Howerver, the rules of physics must be out of wack in my workshop as I can change the weight on the front and rear wheels by moving the collar on my center shock while the car is on the scale? I guess the change is actually a "transfer" ? Ralf
 

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Ralf- If you add the left front and the right front together, and the same for the rear, does it change the totals from the front to the back?
 

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Discussion Starter #18
The misprint thing sure clears my thinking up a little. Since you printed the CW's tips and I a different question. It's not about the center shock this time. It says to try -Stiffer Side Shock Springs - for an understeering car. Why do you go to a stiffer side shock spring. Does going to a stiffer shock spring let the weight trasfer quicker to the outside tires thus increasing more tire traction. Do you change both side springs at the same time?
 

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gezer2u said:
Ralf- If you add the left front and the right front together, and the same for the rear, does it change the totals from the front to the back?
Will try that tomorrow, didn't add the weights on each side but if I remember correctly both weights went up, one side more than the other. Ralf
 

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Erich Reichert said:
I know your not Dan, it is possible for everyone to talk about this like normal people :) Maybe theres a misunderstanding, we are talking about the same thing... corner weight. if you move collars it does "jack" weight to differnt wheels and that is what I was saying as you said above too.
What I was trying to do, was make sure that others,
who may not be familiar with some of this stuff,
do not make the mistake of thinking that if you
put a stiffer/softer spring on the center shock,
that it makes the front end heavier/lighter...
Some people read these posts to learn things.
I'm one of them..
And if they read something that is vague,
they are not being helped... :confused:

Lot's of times, we may use a term that 'we' have an understanding of,
but it may not be the 'right' term.
And mean something different in other circles.

I want those curious, to know, that changing a center spring,
has an effect on weight TRANSFER... during race conditions,
and not weight, by itself.

So if what one is talking about is actually 'transfer', then it needs
to be mentioned that way, so that it is more clear to the readers..

I'm trying to explain that if the rear of your car weighs 550grams,
that no matter WHAT you do to the springs, it will ALWAYS weigh 550grams.
Until you actually move something on the car... :thumbsup:

If you have lr 350, and rr 200, and change to a stiff rr spring,
your weights might be lr 400, and rr 150.
But the total will still be 550....
You can't make the rear 'heavier' by cranking a spring.

(Ralf.. the rules of physics are the same in your shop....
I'd sooner think that you may be seeing a variance in a
less than scientific measuring device, than a quirk in the laws of physics ;) )
 
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