[trailranger]

I know that I may be shot for saying this, but I am glad this is not NASCAR.

Being forced to run all the same bodies, wings, tires, CHASSIS would kill the innovations that come around from being different. I understand the need for rules, but rules that limit these items should be left to SPEC racing. So maybe the Ledgends is comming back as the car of tommorow.

 

[swtour]

What ARCOR is trying to create with their COF class - is sort of a SPEC class....and that is how the class is being designed.

This is NOT being aimed at a NEWBIE/ROOKIE class. It's a class for equal MOTOR/BATTERY/BODY and will make for some VERY GOOD racing if given a chance.

HISTORY has shown in ALL motorsports - INNOVATION - TECHNOLOGY - MONEY - HITECH - does NOT always...or even very often make GOOD RACING. GOOD RACING makes a GOOD SHOW...if you are in the business of SELLING the SHOW - it's easier to sell a GOOD SHOW vs. an event where ONE or TWO cars have an ugly advantage and RUN AWAY with an event.

Why do you think EVERY SANCTIONING BODY in EVERY FORM of motorsports changes rules when it appears a team gets an UNFAIR advantage? (Cause it STINKS UP THE SHOW and PEOPLE QUIT WATCHING)

 

[Ernie P.]

Frustration

I understand both sides of this argument; but I can only imagine how frustrating it must be for the sanctioning bodies. The current push seems to be "I want something thats easy to maintain; no working on the motor and no buying new batteries every other week". So, ARCOR creates a new class; using brushless motors and lipo batteries, with one type of body. And now the cry begins "They're all the same; I don't like it".

The answer is simple: If you don't like it, don't run that Class! You can still run Stock, 19-Turn and Modified. You could even run SPEC! This new COF Class is the **ONLY** Class in ARCOR that requires every one to run the same equipment AND body.

My hat is off to ARCOR for steppng up to the plate with the COF. What we have been doing isn't working, as far as attracting new racers; so maybe it's time for a REAL SPEC Class. If anything, ARCOR hasn't gone far enough. I'd like to see ARCOR pick a chassis manufacturer (I don't care which one, maybe go with the cheapest); mandate that chassis and allow no aftermarket parts. Is that an idea I'm pushing? No! I'll leave the rule making to those with a better viewpoint of whats good for the sport.

All I want to know is "What are the rules"? Okay; lets race! Thanks; Ernie P.

 

[Harold R]

Personally I am torn on this COT deal or maybe more accurately brushless and Lipos in general. From a consumer and racer standpoint here is my personal feeling. I really hate messing with batteries. Building batteries, cycling batteries when not racing for a period of time, charging, discharging, equalizing in DPD or equivalent systems… It is just a pain. Motors are not quite as bad but still a lot of work. Cut the coms, buy brushes, change springs, use cases of motor spray, and then run on the GFX and/or Dyno to be sure you have done a good job. The prep is even more intense if you do not buy a good motor from a quality motor builder to start with. From a racers standpoint I would much rather have a motor that is purchased and does not need maintenance. I would also much rather have a battery that could be purchased at the beginning of the year and last a full calendar year or more without losing performance. On top of I that I understand some are using the same pack all day long. This will give the racer much more time to work on the chassis and chat with the other racers.

On the other side of the coin what will it do to the hobby? This has already been debated on other threads I have not read I’m sure but it seems to me this will really put a hurting on the battery matches and motor builders that have supplied use with quality products for years. Then there is the hobby shop owner who will no longer sell nearly as many packs nor motors per year simply because the products are not as consumable as before.

Spending all of my time at the track working on the chassis, practicing, and chatting with fellow racers sounds great to me but yet I hate to see matchers, motor builders and hobby shop owners get hung out to dry once everyone switches over. Either way one thing is for sure we are going through a definite time of change in the hobby.

 

[Ralf]

The other side of the coin is that this might cause the hobby to actually GROW! The Hobby Shop will sell more cars, radios, tires and replacement parts. I know I have tried to interest friends in racing and when they see all the stuff they have to buy and maintain they quickly lose interest. Maybe instead of 12-15 people at the local carpet track there will be 20 or thirty? Also, as was previously stated, no one is forcing YOU to switch over to the COT are they? My .02 Ralf

 

[Echeconnee]

I like Ralf, He's smart!

 

[trailranger]

Just make it cheap and it will be fun and filled with racers. This is why the mini t and 18T took off and then died. It was cheap at first when there were no upgrade parts, now its expensive to be competitive.

 

[pepe]

Seems that we've gotten sooooo lazy,it's called a hobby,what's the fun in just showing up at the track and racing? never having to work on your motors, build or cycle some packs during the week! this is why I like the hobby it gives me time away from work to do stuff that I actually enjoy.I don't want to just show up and race and pack away everything until the next week,GEEEEEEZZZZ.

 

[MIKE VALENTINE]

I agree PEPE

 

[Todd Putnam]

I second that, PEPE. Tuning motors, chassis, tires, gearing, etc; IS part of the hobby and the enjoyment, in my opinion.

There is no sure-fire way to totally level the playing field- the performance variation of brushless motors and li-po batteries are just as evident as with the current brushed motors and NiMh cells, except you have less control to tune around their variables. It comes down to being a manufactured product. If it's mass produced, there will always be uncontrollable variables that we will see as performance-minded individuals.

I believe if you want to race without having to do any tuning, maintainance, etc; to gain an advantage over the competition, R/C isn't for you...maybe video games are more suited for that mindset. :thumbsup:

 

[Ralf]

I second that, PEPE. Tuning motors, chassis, tires, gearing, etc; IS part of the hobby and the enjoyment, in my opinion.

There is no sure-fire way to totally level the playing field- the performance variation of brushless motors and li-po batteries are just as evident as with the current brushed motors and NiMh cells, except you have less control to tune around their variables. It comes down to being a manufactured product. If it's mass produced, there will always be uncontrollable variables that we will see as performance-minded individuals.

I believe if you want to race without having to do any tuning, maintainance, etc; to gain an advantage over the competition, R/C isn't for you...maybe video games are more suited for that mindset. :thumbsup:

This is why the hobby has stagnated, most people do not want to deal with all the suff, there is no reason you guys can't keep running your brushed stuff and let the rest of us race brushless lipos if we want, bet though that sooner or later you guys will be in the minority. IMO Ralf

 

[IndyRC_Racer]

For a lot of people R/C racing is about having fun. Some people have fun by tuning motors or matching batteries, but a lot of people don't. Not everyone has 40 hours a week to work on "tweaking" brushed motors.

If you read some of the nostalgia threads there used to be huge turn-outs at racers? There are many reasons, but I bet one of the biggest reasons was you could buy an off the shelf kit and be just as competetive as anyone else. This hobby has become too specialized. I personally have over $1000 invested in brushed motors/lathes/brushes and I'll never be an A-main level driver. I don't even want to think about all the other money I've spent on chargers/controllers/tires/etc... However, you almost have to have that much equipment if you want to maintain brushed motors.

I think some of the die hard brushed racers are in denial about the fact that not everyone wants to maintain a garage full of equipment to have "fun" playing with toy cars. I realize that for gear heads tuning is fun, it just isn't for the rest of us.

 

[dave w 1]

This by some individuals is not a hobby its a sport . And In sports we try to beat the other guy or the other team.Does this mean spend the money game yea to a certain extent.Now am i saying you need to mortgage your house to think thats why your getting beat on sat night no Chances are if thats the way you look at it you will never win a major race forget it go race cot spec or brushless. take this for whatever you want the key word here is racing and guys will always look for the edge.Do you know how many people are always aking me to zap spec packs for them or advance timing on a spec motor ?

 

[pepe]

bet though that sooner or later you guys will be in the minority. IMO Ralf
[/QUOTE]

I agree and that's when I will get out of the sport/hobby,for the fact that it will no longer provide me with any enjoyment.It doesn't take 40 hrs a week to work on motors and batteries that's just a mistruth,as for the money issue,$1000 is nothing in reality these days,if that much breaks you then this sport isn't for you.

 

[trailranger]

Just make it cheap and it will be fun and filled with racers. QUOTE]

Like I said

 

[tow jockey]

ya know, i have been reading all of these posts and i noticed something, the two motor guys that know how to tune motors and super charge batteries dont like brushless an lipo, but the average joes do, me i just want to race, charge it up, plug it in, and just race! some of us don't have time, and or $ to learn. i have smoked my share of motors, popped my share of batteries, it cost a lot to make a mastake, some of us run on shoe string budgets.i learned the hard way about carbon fiber chassis conducting electricity. melted a couple of packs before i "learned" so i am brushless everything i own all 14 rides and i am never going back

 

[IndyRC_Racer]

I agree and that's when I will get out of the sport/hobby,for the fact that it will no longer provide me with any enjoyment.It doesn't take 40 hrs a week to work on motors and batteries that's just a mistruth,as for the money issue,$1000 is nothing in reality these days,if that much breaks you then this sport isn't for you.

Okay 40 hours is an (obvious) exaggeration, but how much money IS acceptable for playing with toy cars. I'm glad some people have thousands to spend or are sponsored. For the rest of us. Spending less money on motors IS a good thing.

As for people how don't like SPEC/COT, are you running an open mod - anything goes class? Any batteries/tires/chassis/body? If you aren't, then your class has some rules or specifications.

 

[Ralf]

INDYRC-Racer, There is a bunch of the racers that spend a lot of time breaking these rules, they are afraid of losing that edge to people with better driving and set up skills. I (unfortunately) am not one of those skilled people BUT for some reason I enjoy racing in the F main, I just have FUN racing. IMO Ralf

 

[pepe]

Okay 40 hours is an (obvious) exaggeration, but how much money IS acceptable for playing with toy cars. I'm glad some people have thousands to spend or are sponsored. For the rest of us. Spending less money on motors IS a good thing.

As for people how don't like SPEC/COT, are you running an open mod - anything goes class? Any batteries/tires/chassis/body? If you aren't, then your class has some rules or specifications.

I know what you meant, but honestly how many hrs per week do you think it takes to work on motors and batteries,I'm buying less motors than ever before maybe three or four a year and working on those motors,maybe an hr or two a week,I'm not the fastest guy at the track for sure but like most of you I just enjoy racing and ALL that goes with it.I'm still learning about all this chassis tuning stuff after all these years in the sport.All I'm saying about the money is I know I spend wayy more than $1000 a year on this stuff and it doesn't really bother me that I'm spending money on something that I enjoy,and I guess if brushless takes over I'll be in quite a quandry about what to do with myself.I guess I'll just go full time .09 racing.

 

[Sam32]

I think that the most interesting aspect of the COF class is the fact that all of the tuning can be done on the chassis. With equal motors, batteries, and bodies, you would know that if you got beat at the track it was either handling or driving, and you could focus on improving those things. I've started running .09 recently, and there is some engine tuning for sure, but at the track you have more time to work with the chassis, which I really enjoy. I had basically lost all interest in electric racing, but this COF class has at least got my attention for these reasons.