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Discussion Starter #1
Just a post of frustration...
When are the older generation guys who run the races going to open up to the brushless 13.5 in stock and Lipos in modified??? It might be acceptable some places but this really needs to catch on, it is part of new technology which is a move forward...
One argument to the 13.5 in stock - it is suppose to be an entry class and cost minimizing but brushed motors do cost more in the long run with lathes, brushes etc...a great analogy is in supercross they race 2 strokes and 4 strokes together, the racer has a choice on what he prefers
To Lipos being dangerous, yes if handled incorrectly any battery will be, shorting out a charged NiMH could shoot a cell into a wall(i've seen pics) or a fire in the pits
Also to Lipos - some say the volts are higher, well, a lower turned motor will have the same affect, too much power won't always do it, but the ease of a Lipo and just recharging instead of all the time needed for proper care of a NiMH just makes sense
Just trying to get some points out there to get this moving, if i'm not heard at least the effort has been made....Feel free to add to this :)
 

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brandonizr said:
Just a post of frustration...
When are the older generation guys who run the races going to open up to the brushless 13.5 in stock and Lipos in modified??? It might be acceptable some places but this really needs to catch on, it is part of new technology which is a move forward...
One argument to the 13.5 in stock - it is suppose to be an entry class and cost minimizing but brushed motors do cost more in the long run with lathes, brushes etc...a great analogy is in supercross they race 2 strokes and 4 strokes together, the racer has a choice on what he prefers
To Lipos being dangerous, yes if handled incorrectly any battery will be, shorting out a charged NiMH could shoot a cell into a wall(i've seen pics) or a fire in the pits
Also to Lipos - some say the volts are higher, well, a lower turned motor will have the same affect, too much power won't always do it, but the ease of a Lipo and just recharging instead of all the time needed for proper care of a NiMH just makes sense
Just trying to get some points out there to get this moving, if i'm not heard at least the effort has been made....Feel free to add to this :)

Its not because of the new technology, some guys just like working on brushed motors.

The lipo batteries are getting better in time as far as higher discharge rates (C).
The lipo batteries have a lot lower IR then Nimh batteries will ever have.

Soon the lipo batteries will take over and Nimh batteries will go like the Ncad batteries.

I say in a few years new lipo-poly???
You just never know...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
i hear you on that they like working on the brushed motors, that's fine, but they shouldn't restrict it to only brushed, let the racer choose
 

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brandonizr,

The answer is easy...if you see/like a certain type of racing and you believe in it 100% then maybe YOU should create the NEWEST Racing Organization and set forth the rules..

Then you just have to get people to come and run it.
 

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Originally Posted by brandonizr
Just a post of frustration...
When are the older generation guys who run the races going to open up to the brushless 13.5 in stock and Lipos in modified??? It might be acceptable some places but this really needs to catch on, it is part of new technology which is a move forward...
One argument to the 13.5 in stock - it is suppose to be an entry class and cost minimizing but brushed motors do cost more in the long run with lathes, brushes etc...a great analogy is in supercross they race 2 strokes and 4 strokes together, the racer has a choice on what he prefers
To Lipos being dangerous, yes if handled incorrectly any battery will be, shorting out a charged NiMH could shoot a cell into a wall(i've seen pics) or a fire in the pits
Also to Lipos - some say the volts are higher, well, a lower turned motor will have the same affect, too much power won't always do it, but the ease of a Lipo and just recharging instead of all the time needed for proper care of a NiMH just makes sense
Just trying to get some points out there to get this moving, if i'm not heard at least the effort has been made....Feel free to add to this

I LIKE IT... I HAVE BEEN SAYING THE SAME THING FOR THIS SEASON. THE OLD GUYS ARE THE ONES THAT GET THERE BATTERIES FOR FREE.

LI-PO IS THE BEST AND THE EASY WAY TO GET NEW GUYS INTO RACING. THE COST IS SO MUCH LOWER IN THE LONG RUN. AND BRUSHLESS IS THE BEST ALSO. I WISH I HAD THE CHANCE TO GO ALL LI-PO AND BRUSHLESS I WOULD HAVE ALOT MORE MONEY.

I KNOW. 1500.00 IN CHARGERS AND 600.00 IN DISCHARGERS PLUS 600.00 OR MORE FOR BATTERIES AND 1200.00 FOR MOTORS. THATS JUST FOR BATTERIES AND MOTORS. I RUN 3 CLASSES.

ONE BATTERY ONE MOTOR. CHARGE THE BATTERY AT HOME. TAKE A CAR CONTROLLER AND TIRE GOOP AND GO RACE. WOW WOULD THAT BE EASY.

I WENT RACING LAST WEEK. RAN 3 CLASSES. I CHARGED BATTERIES FOR 6 HOURS AND I RAN 3 CLASSES FOR A TOTAL OF 36 MIN. OF RACING. NOW THAT IS WAY TO MUCH WORK TO RACE.
 

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Let's see; Gary McAllister, swtour and me.....are some of the "old guys" that are leading the charge for the Lipo / Brushless movement. So it’s not ALL the old guys that are stuck on brushed motors LOL

Everything you guys are saying is true (except for the charge at home thing, they do run better right off the charger) and the time for making the change over at local tracks is now. Most of the organizations will not make a rule change or class restructure until they see an interest in any new deal on a large scale. ARCOR is the only organization so far that can see where this is going and is working on a brushless/lipo class.

Here is a quick breakdown on cost: $150 (or less) for a top of the line charger (must have for LiPo), $90 for ONE Orion 3200 Carbon pack (all the battery you will need). $2.00 for a set of banana plugs from Radio Shack to charge with and your brushless setup. That should hold you for about two YEARS of racing. There is just no comparison in money to brushed and NiMH battery racing.

Now, think about this; a 4300 brushless motor and the Orion LiPo pack is about as cheap as you can possibly get to run a mild modified class “every week” at your local track. That setup is about the same speed as 8 or 9 turn, 4 cell setup……..and did I mention, just ONE battery pack to race all day!

At the present time there is no brushless motor available to get it down to Stock speeds but keep the faith…….it’s on its way! And no I don’t mean the 18.5 motor.
 

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I know for me personally, brushless and Lipo has been the best thing to happen to this hobby. With a family now I don't have all the time I would like to have to enjoy my car. Now instead of tweaking and rebuilding the motors and soldering battery packs and blah blah blah I can just charge and race or charge and bash. Recently I sold off almost all of my Nicd and brushed motor stuff and replaced it with a Mamba setup and Lipos. No regrets!! Unfortunately it's limited my racing options, but I get more time doing what I like - running the crap out of my car.
 

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I heard this week end from a race director that ROAR will insure Lipo's next year. So, things are moving forward there.

Oh, I saw this on FMA direct

"All FMA electronic products are designed and produced in FMA facilities or associate firms in the US with minor exceptions. There are no US producers of competitively priced Li Po cells. However, Kokam has been most cooperative in developing cells that have been suggested from FMA. We leave that development to the true Li Po experts and make no claims of having designed or perfected Li Po cells. It is a costly process and Kokam spent over 10$ million US Dollars to perfect the HDR capability that they claim.

The need for high discharge rate actually comes from the power tool industry that purchases about one half billion Ni Cd and Ni MH cells per year. During marketing efforts to power tool manufacturers, the primary requirements are for safety and sanctity of intellectual property. From that, FMA derived the need for "locked -in" safety that had not been present in large Li Po packs that operate "open end" with only external protective devices that are not standardized. It may interest the reader to know that the Portable Power Institute reported that over 1.6 billion Li cells were produced in the past year. About 0.1% of those went to RC users.

Regarding the size of the BalancePro HD connector: a means is described in the manual to reduce the size of the HD connector by removal of the metal housing. When that is done, the connector is just slightly larger than our standard Deans Ultra connector. It is the users choice.

Design at FMA is done with professional input from all levels in the firm from the warehouse to engineering to marketing to management. All are competent modelers. Every product undergoes significant beta test.

Our thanks to Mr Jim Young for as thorough a review of the system as we have ever seen for any RC product.

Fred Marks, pres.
FMA, Inc."


Interesting.
 

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Hopefully they will package the new motor with their new XBR Sport Esc for a reasonably priced package for the newcomer. NOVAK is really getting behind Oval Racing and Brushless, thanks. Ralf
 

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Patrick,

Probably not quite as slow as spec, but maybe a tad slower than current 4 cell stock.

Mainly because we know once guys figure these things out they will get faster than what and how we do our testing, so we don't want what looks like a good speed to be ruined right off the bat by some of the top guys getting a good setup and making them run as fast as a current 19t.

Some of the hurdles we face are track sizes and gearing. Where an indoor carpet track might only be 97 - 110 ft. run line and the Encino Velodrome closer to 900 ft. it might be very complicated to get a ratio for both types of facilities.

I can envision on a VELODROME this class needing to run about a 15% OVERDRIVE gear ratio..LOL (Meaning the Spur is smaller than the pinion by 15%) ...all joking aside, I'm very excited to see NoVAK taking interest in Oval racing again...and they WILL build what we need I believe. One of the nicest things is that the can, endbell and rotor can ALL be the same...
 

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This will be great!
I was hoping for a 13.5/4 cell type speed. They run this at my bro's track in MO. and it seems to be about 2-3 laps faster than brushed 27T. But I will run the most cost effective speed. I have always been a fan of Novak, customer service is key for me.
Thanks Joe
 

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While the COF class will have certain restrictions in regard to ESC, body, etc., the other two classes will be more open in reagrd to these.

I hope by "more open" you will still just be sticking with Novak for the Speed Controls and motors.
 

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Please stick with the NOVAK equipment, level playing field, and we owe them for what they have done and are doing FOR BRUSHLESS OVAL. It seems all the other brushless mfgs have decided the largest market share is in offroad, touring, and bashing. NOVAK is listening and supplying Oval racing. My .02 Ralf
 

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Personally, I have no interest in Spec type racing but I have been doing this for 20+ years. What we need is a better way for racers to get started and/or continue to race weekly with less expense. This is exactly what this new deal will be.

In my opinion, this is where this change over has to start, at the entry, Spec or Stock level. What I tested is great for what I do and it will catch on by itself as soon as people open their eyes and see how inexpensive it is while still keeping the speed.

As I have said many times in these discussions, brushless and LiPo batteries are our future. Don’t let you or your track be the last to find out how good it is. Support what ARCOR is doing and encourage your track to do the same.
 
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