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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I just got through watching the entire 1980 long version release of STTMP. I can find sequences where the warp engines are off (and the inner nacelle grills darkand the domes are also dark.

I can find scenes at impulse that also show these domes dark. I know the accepted view is that they are blue. HOWEVER, I can't find a single scene where they are actually lit up blue (even at warp).

Can anyone identify a picture that actually shows them blue from STTMP?

Is there one in STTWOK?

Thanks,
Mark
 

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See attached image:
1. first time entering warp
2. in wormhole
3. going into warp top view
4. same
5. approaching vger
6. surviving plasma weapon
This is how it originally appears in ST:TMP. There is never a good angle of view of the domes when the ship is in warp/going into warp in ST II or ST III.
 

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Oh, and extra explanation - the ship is supposedly "in warp flight" in all 6 of those instances given that the nacelle grilles are lit... even though the ship appears "at rest" in vger... it was originally written as doing evasive warp maneuvers...... you could also take it as someone forgot and left the switch on. And for the record, the impulse engines are lit (yellow) only when going "warp .5" in the solar system, and the impulse crystal is red, not blue. I will provide pics if ya need'em for that too.
If one were to portray the ship as it normally appears in ST:TMP, the engines should be off (warp and impulse) and all "domes" should be off (warp and impulse). This is how I will be painting my ship in conjunction with the spotlight paint scheme. (that of course takes care of any ambient blue or yellow light I'd have to worry about coming from the engines)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you for the screen caps gunstar1. In fact in the 1980 "long" version we see all of the evasive maneuvers and a longer VGER sequence with far more understanding of whats going on. The long version is better than the directors cut in my opinion, but I digress.

FOR STTMP:
the deflector starts out rosy copper and transitions to blue above warp .5

the impulse crystal is on only when the impulse engins are on and glows red to redish-orange like the engines

the warp crystal on top of the nacelle is off at impulse (like the grills) and on (and blue) when the grills are on at warp.

My next web page update tonight will detail the lighting aspects and the nacele crystal was the one thing I was still unsure of. I didn't have the ability for the screencap looks from VHS tape. Thanks again for the help.

Mark
 

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Hmm, shouldn't the engines always be lit if they're warmed up and ready to go? That is, the light would be off only if they're entirely shut down, such as when in drydock? As a comparison, the TOS nacelle domes were always lit and rotating (disregarding the pilot version), regardless of whether they were in warp, at impulse or in orbit.
 

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Not on this generation of Enterprise, apparently.

Interesting discussion on the colours. Personally, I like a 'blue/white' Impulse look and nothing else lit up... I know this is INACCURATE to the film, but they had a few promo shots of the refit like that and it looks rather fetching. Ditto the ST6 teaser poster rear view above the Klingon head.
 

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No Prob. On your remark of the deflector though, there's a little more inconsistency in the original (theatrical and tv) release version. Here's how it breaks down (I won't bother with the screencaps unless you really need to see them):
1. The ship is leaving drydock up to just before going into impulse: TAN
2. ship goes into impulse: BLUE
3. ship enters warp & wormhole: BLUE
4. "captain's log..." (spock had just arrived) ship is moving... not in impulse, but deflector is on: BLUE
5. ship "exits" warp-flash into warp 7: BLUE
6. repeat shot (just exact same angle, not a film/stock duplicate) of #4 but accelerated for warp cruising: BLUE
7. entering vger ship via tractor beam (passing thru "mouth"): TAN
8. moments later, still in tractor beam, closer to 2nd orafice: BLUE! (the directors version attempts to "fix" this by placing some sort of ugly looking tan filter over the blue...shoddy)
9. "captains log..." just before we see Decker & Ilea probe on rec deck we see a shot of the ship stationary: BLUE (directors edition makes another shoddy attempt to mask the "inconsistency"
10. More confusion. for the exterior "spock walk" shots, deflector is at low (TAN) power, though the color for some reason is muddied to the point where it almost looks blue.....were they (1979) attempting to fix the inconsistency? or just trying to mute the colors behind spock?
11. next time we see dish in original version is as the ship emerges from vger explosion. Ship definately not in warp: BLUE
12. beauty pass of ship before going into warp (still on thrusters, and this is before the warp grilles "turn on"): BLUE
Logical explanation?
The closest thing I can think of is that the dish is only on low power when starting up (like drydock sequence) and special orders (when ship gets locked into tractor beam, Kirk says "disengage main drive systems". But that still does not account for the inconsistency. Overall, it seems that the Dish is meant to be BLUE while in normal space and warp flight modes. Don't get me worked up now about all the mess-ups in the Director's edition....grrrr. (they spent all this time and money inadiquately "fixing" things and ignored the things that really needed digital touch ups, like matte lines etc. Even the new ILM botched that for the original Trilogy.)
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Gunstar1:
So barring the oops which in most cases even they recognized and tried to fix I think we have a conclusion. I want to recheck one last nit. I agree with you that the "tan" color is definately seen at low speed and station keeping. We may need one last check on whether in the coming out of drydock sequence is there a moment when it is still TAN and the impulse engines have lit up.

Mark
 

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Mark - the moments that I described to you above is a list of every instance that the deflector appears. There is no time when impulse is lit at the same time as a tan deflector. Given all instances, it would be "essentially" inaccurate to "justify" the use of a tan deflector unless portraying drydock exit...in the spirit of original ST:TMP canon. I too like those publicity/promotional shots of the ship prior to filming with the white/blue engines. My particualr goal is to get the most accurate film portrayal.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks Gunstar1. You are correct. I came home and confirmed the same thing. At any impulse speed the deflector is blue. Now to updating my site.

Mark
 

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Just another observation on a Friday afternoon when I have nothing better to do,

Just seen some ST5 pics - the impulse engines are blue, hence the ST6 teaser being in that colour I guess, if not in the film. Since ST5 was done by Bran Ferren it can be disregarded as being of much use to us, unless someone is keen on doing an ST 5 version 1701-A!
 

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Treadwell said:
Hmm, shouldn't the engines always be lit if they're warmed up and ready to go? That is, the light would be off only if they're entirely shut down, such as when in drydock? As a comparison, the TOS nacelle domes were always lit and rotating (disregarding the pilot version), regardless of whether they were in warp, at impulse or in orbit.
I've always looked at it like this. In TOS the nacelle domes were where the intermix took place to power the warp engines. One intermix 'chamber' per warp engine. That is why they were continuously lit and why Scotty said they would need a starbase to restart them when they were shut down.

Given the advancements in technology and engineering up to the time of the TMP, Starfleet engineers chose to tap this large source of raw power to operate the entire ship instead of just the warp engines. They moved the intermix assembly into the secondary hull, increased it's output power and channeled it to both warp engines.

The redesigned warp engines glow when the warp field generating matrix is energized fully.

I also agree that the deflector dish would be tan when docked or in a low power mode and blue when energized whenever the ship is underway.
 
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