Welcome to the Hobby Talk Ask Me Anything with our very own hobbyist Chepp! You may be familiar with Chepp from hobbyDB where he is the curator of the Zee Toys/Zylmex page, or from conversations with him in the forum. But Chepp isn't just a fan of Diecast cars: for years he was involved in their design and development!
Working with Zee Toys/Zylmex/Zyll Enterprises and Intex Recreation has given Chepp a wealth of knowledge on the creation, licensing and cataloging of Diecast vehicles, especially concerning the car and motorcycle products of Zyll Enterprises during the 1980s and early '90s, and Maisto from the 1980s until 2016.
Chepp will be by on Tuesday, September 21st until Thursday, September 23rd to answer any questions you may have concerning the history and creation of your favorite Diecast vehicles.
We can't wait to see you!
This thread is now open for responses, and will be open until Thursday, September 23rd.
I'll pick one from 1990 that was originally a line of 3" die-casts for Zee that was soon made by May Cheong (or MC Toys, prior to the Maisto brand name) as a larger battery-operated line also branded as Zee Toys. See if you can guess while I shoot some photos to post in a few minutes. Devious clue: I styled half and Dave "Big Deal" styled the other half.
Very interesting at one point in my collecting in the Bahamas I was able to purchase maisto diecast, before Covid and during the lockdown many small-scale shops closed out and recently I came across a Japan Miniso outlet that had a few on their shelves but a lot of the same car (3) variety. I can probably say that in my collection I have about 5 maisto. I would like to expand that portion of My collection as Hot wheels and Matchbox has the larger percentage. My last purchase of a Thunderbird diecast from Miniso was @ $5.00+12%vat. Hws mainline are $2.99+12%vat. Mbx are $2.75+12%vat far apart from the US $1.00 market. I do like the mailto line of diecast but for me they are out of my reach as they are hard to find in my region .I have seen some I would love to have but I will have to pursue online. Now due to container shortage many toys have been put on the back burner so I'm hoping to see what the Christmas season brings. If you have mailto for sale that will really interest me Carloj45@gmail.com Would really like to view a few of your favorites c/o.Chepp
Very interesting at one point in my collecting in the Bahamas I was able to purchase maisto diecast, before Covid and during the lockdown many small-scale shops closed out and recently I came across a Japan Miniso outlet that had a few on their shelves but a lot of the same car (3) variety. I can probably say that in my collection I have about 5 maisto. I would like to expand that portion of My collection as Hot wheels and Matchbox has the larger percentage. My last purchase of a Thunderbird diecast from Miniso was @ $5.00+12%vat. Hws mainline are $2.99+12%vat. Mbx are $2.75+12%vat far apart from the US $1.00 market. I do like the mailto line of diecast but for me they are out of my reach as they are hard to find in my region .I have seen some I would love to have but I will have to pursue online. Now due to container shortage many toys have been put on the back burner so I'm hoping to see what the Christmas season brings. If you have mailto for sale that will really interest me Carloj45@gmail.com Would really like to view a few of your favorites c/o.Chepp
Thanks for writing! I don't have anything for sale but you might try the secondary market (auction sites, trading among other collectors on online forums, and so on) when Maisto can't be found new at stores. I'll post a favorite Maisto in a while.
May Cheong (also known as MC Toys*) was a supplier to Intex Recreation Corp. (U.S. importer) and Zee Toys. They made these all-plastic battery-powered cars based on the Flip Cars styling. They were about 6-1/2" long.
Here is the front and back of the one of the cars. Not visible in the package was a black bumper extending out from the front. When the switch was turned on, the car zoomed across the floor. When it hit a wall, the bumper helped flip it over and changed the polarity to the motor so it would zoom back.
Now you gone and turn diecast upside down Awesome Chepp. I just have a few questions for you. Are they current casting or things to come (prototypes)'? They are your castings ? How often is the rotation of casting productions like twice a year or more? Those productions cars shown look plastic or metal body cause it would not have a base? What's the current market price on them? Why a flippant concept?
Now you gone and turn diecast upside down Awesome Chepp. I just have a few questions for you. Are they current casting or things to come (prototypes)'? These were in production in the early 1990s. Zee Toys closed in 1995 and the tools (molds) for the die-casts were purchased by another company that continued making some, but not all, of them. I don't know for sure, but I don't think that the Flip Cars were released by that other company. May Cheong never re-released the battery-operated ones.
They are your castings ? I designed one side and Dave "Big Deal" designed the other half of each car. The designs belonged to Zee Toys, and later, the company that bought the tools.
How often is the rotation of casting productions like twice a year or more? There was no set time. There were several factors. The most important was popularity (the more popular, the longer a given item stayed in production). After a couple of years, usually, the color would be changed. Another was cost. Some items cost more to make than others so they would be sparingly put into assortments just to add "class" while the cheaper-to-make styles would be more common to keep costs down.
Those productions cars shown look plastic or metal body cause it would not have a base? Both sides were metal. That's why they started in the Pacesetters line because that line had metal baseplates.
What's the current market price on them? Sorry, I don't know. Perhaps someone else could answer this?
Why a flippant concept? Sorry, I don't understand what you are asking. It was a "new" idea at the time to attract people to Zee Toys. They were all custom designs so there wouldn't be any costs for licensing if we had made real cars.
Those are interesting and a product I cant recall seeing before. I do have 2 examples of a Lionel product called Revolvers that have the same flip over design but a very different body design. I also like the triangular wheel sets used - very strong design for the overall lookof the castings.
I also havent heard of Toys from the 1930s before. Is that reference back to toys from the 1930s? Or a competitor brand from your own design era?
Those are interesting and a product I cant recall seeing before. I do have 2 examples of a Lionel product called Revolvers that have the same flip over design but a very different body design. I also like the triangular wheel sets used - very strong design for the overall lookof the castings. Thanks!
I also havent heard of Toys from the 1930s before. Is that reference back to toys from the 1930s? Or a competitor brand from your own design era? It was a time period. I just took a quick look online but couldn't find an example of a car. There were dolls from that time looked one way then when you turned them over their dress fell the other way to reveal a different one.
It's a model! In his early pro days, Mark Jones built models for Zee photography. This is a 1/8 scale Monogram IROC-Z Camaro. Here is one of his award-winning models: Tamiya 1:12 Super Seven Build - Mark Jones .
Here at HobbyTalk we most often recommend a search of the current ebay sold listings to determine a fair market value of any diecast. Prices and values will vary daily of course and in your location around the world and the related shipping costs. You can filter for most of those factors within your search at ebay (and other innerwebz sites) now.
Didnt know about the Pacesetter models having metal bases! Previously most castings we knew about were loose examples and that explains a lot of the inability to pin point distribution years for many castings in the Zyll brands (and probably other brands as well.)
Fortunantly many more carded examples are showing up for sale now and we can at least pin point them to named series from different brands.
The earliest 3" Pacesetters had four-digit style numbers such as 3005 before they were changed to the letter "P" and three numbers. I don't recall when that change was made but it was probably in the early 1980s.
Interesting follow up to model rotation and cost factors. So I guess this model has proven itself to be a 'popular' issue over time! In the DFW area where I gather my diecasts from primarily - this teal and white version has only recently been seen in a few new colors. I found this one in 2014 and have picked up a few more examples of it as late as 2020. I believe I do have an earlier example in Silver though. Were you involved in the development or design of this casting during your tenure at Maisto?
I picked up this red and white cove example back in 2017 but had not seen it locally until last Summer in the Wal Mart Adventure Force multi packs. Not absolutely sure the same red color is being used today.
Interesting follow up to model rotation and cost factors. So I guess this model has proven itself to be a 'popular' issue over time! In the DFW area where I gather my diecasts from primarily - this teal and white version has only recently been seen in a few new colors. I found this one in 2014 and have picked up a few more examples of it as late as 2020. I believe I do have an earlier example in Silver though. Were you involved in the development or design of this casting during your tenure at Maisto?
I don't think that I was involved with this one at the U.S. office. Most likely, it was added by the Hong Kong office as a copy of the larger-scale Bburago ones. Maisto bought the Bburago tooling.
Here's the history of the 1/64 colors:
1957 Chevrolet Corvette
0019
silver, red cove
x
2002
2006
1957 Chevrolet Corvette
0019
red, white cove
x
2007
2008
1957 Chevrolet Corvette
0019
turquoise, white cove
x
2009
-
There's a "hidden" code in Maisto style numbers on the baseplates. The first two digits are the year the project was started. In this case the "00" means the year 2000 even though the item didn't appear until the 2002 catalog. The second two numbers are a consecutive number of new products in all scales. So, this Corvette was the nineteenth new product started in the year 2000.
Here is the Silver version I have. It was acquired from another collector back in 2015 so I am not sure of the actual distribution year date but it is date stamped with a 2002 Tonka copyright.
Here is the Silver version I have. It was acquired from another collector back in 2015 so I am not sure of the actual distribution year date but it is date stamped with a 2002 Tonka copyright.
Maisto started the Tonka licensed items in 2001 but it did not include this Corvette in the 1/64 line. I don't have 2002 through 2004 catalogs but I'd guess that this Corvette was new in 2002 (the copyright date on the baseplate and the Fresh Metal version appearing in the same silver/red cove paint in 2002 are clues). When I did the Fresh Metal research it was before I retired from Maisto so I used company catalogs -- I don't have a complete set at home.
A nice resource with the catalog link but it reminds me of all the cool castings and series we dont ever see in my DFW area! We do have the 3" diecast but that is usually limited to just the Fresh Metal castings. And the 1:24 scale models do show up at the drug store chains. Our Wal Marts have had 1:18 cars and the Motorcycle line on ocassion but not ever consistely (even before Covid.) 🤙
Ok chepp my only concern about maisto was that the card never introduce the actually car in the blister why is that? I would usually keep the card of all that I would take out for my display except for mailto cards. What ratin
It is pretty normal for most low-end brands to use a common image for each line of items instead of having a special card for each car. It keeps the cost down. A few, such as Muscle Machines, included a trading card in each blister card that was specific to the car.
Maisto for me is like trying to get Kaidohouse castings at present. M2 ,Green light.AutoWorld takes long for delivery.As for the info I do and many more appreciate you contribution of enlightenment in diecast. Thank U Cheap
Hi @chepp, not to completely shift away from the topics being discussed but I was wondering if you could go through your process of designing a diecast car. I think you've done both 1/64 scale and larger scale as well, right? I'd be interested in hearing some of the differences in approach to small scale vs. large scale. If you have any drawings you can share I'd love to see those, too
Sometimes the boss, Mr. Zee, would ask if we should make something. For example, he circled some cars on a National Geographic mini-poster of significant cars. They were good choices so we made them: '32 Ford roadster and '64 Mustang.
One of my first tasks at Zee in 1982 was to come up with something new for die-cast. I rearranged a bunch of parts to make some urban warrior vehicles. The wheels are missing from these mock-ups that I still have. I think that the two on the left fit onto some sort of tank-tread chassis and would rotate. The pickup on the right would have had off-road style wheels and tires. This idea went nowhere. I was a couple of decades too early -- it would have needed a movie or TV show with similar vehicles to pave the way for these to sell.
Awesome information! And a lot more detailed work than I would have imagined. I too, was expecting just a blue print type drawing as the starting point! Nice work on the development of your self made reference tool!
The inclusion of a model kit and a diecast car in your researched materials to model builders is also very interesting. In the Encyclopedia of Small-Scale Diecast Motor Vehicle Manufacturers - Sahakangas, Foster & Weber (2006) they include several references to manufacturers using built up model kits and notations that they copied 'measurements' from other diecasts but actual confirmation is phenomenal to have! It also makes more sense that the reference models would have been of a larger scale model kit or diecast than the end product!
Awesome information! And a lot more detailed work than I would have imagined. I too, was expecting just a blue print type drawing as the starting point! Nice work on the development of your self made reference tool! Thanks!
The inclusion of a model kit and a diecast car in your researched materials to model builders is also very interesting. In the Encyclopedia of Small-Scale Diecast Motor Vehicle Manufacturers - Sahakangas, Foster & Weber (2006) they include several references to manufacturers using built up model kits and notations that they copied 'measurements' from other diecasts but actual confirmation is phenomenal to have! It also makes more sense that the reference models would have been of a larger scale model kit or diecast than the end product! We used a lot of model kits as the basis for die-casts. Still, we usually followed the "trust, but verify" philosophy to avoid perpetuating someone else's errors. It worked the other way, too. At Maisto, we made a variety of licensed HUMMER die-casts. At least one other company copied our 1:18 H2 so carelessly that they included the Maisto name on the baseplate on theirs!
You mentioned earlier that the Zee molds eventually passed to another company when they closed in 1995. The Diecast Encyclopedia makes that same unnamed company reference but they also mention that the Zylmex line had already been purchased by Red Box which later evolved into Motormax.
Did Zee and Zylmex share casting tools over time in their diecast lines?
Is it probable that Red Box was the same company who picked up the Zee tooling in 1995? Or was it a definitly a completely different company for sure?
You mentioned earlier that the Zee molds eventually passed to another company when they closed in 1995. The Diecast Encyclopedia makes that same unnamed company reference but they also mention that the Zylmex line had already been purchased by Red Box which later evolved into Motormax. As far as I know, all of the Zyll (Zylmex, Zee Toys) owned tooling went to Red Box. Tooling from suppliers, such as May Cheong (most pull-back items) and Boville (all-plastic LeMans) did not.
Did Zee and Zylmex share casting tools over time in their diecast lines? Zee Toys was a brand name, primarily used by Intex Recreation Corp. up to the early 1990s. Zyll Enterprise was the overall company name that made the toys. Zylmex was a brand name used for Zyll toys made for non-Intex customers. So, Zee Toys and Zylmex were the same products in different packaging. After Intex stopped selling toys in the early 1990s Zyll used the Zee Toys name for sales worldwide.
Is it probable that Red Box was the same company who picked up the Zee tooling in 1995? Or was it a definitly a completely different company for sure? Red Box.
Going back to the production lists by series - many examples of those can be found on ebay both in their current and their sold listings. One casting series I did notice on ebay and have seen only one example of before - that I can recall - is of bicycles! Where you ever involved in their development or marketing?
Another item that caught my eye from the marketing report was item # 29581 Drag Race Set. Was this the double launcher device only or did it include a track component?
One of the other debate points we have often in our diecast history process regards how old tooling is integrated into new ownership. When Maisto picked up Bburago, Muscle Machines and Tonka for example what was the process like to choose which castings were continued, modified or discarded? Obviously base plate information would need to be updated if a casting was continued.
I wasn't involved in this directly. Once the tooling was sent to our people in China they would advise which ones were able to be run as is, give time/cost estimates for repairing the ones that needed some work and which ones weren't cost-effective to fix. Of course, all had to have the baseplate lettering revised. The new products manager and the sales manager would advise management on which ones they wanted. Tonka wasn't a factor, though, since it was a licensing deal only. Maisto would create new tooling for Tonka-only items and the rest was just applying new decos and, sometimes, new colors to our existing items.
Part 2 Gather reference material and send it off for model making (continued from post #39)
Here is something I did for every vehicle that I prepared tooling material for. This one is a Honda V45 Interceptor from 1983 for a Zee Toys Ridge Riders.
The purpose was to create a perspectiveless photo, like a mechanical drawing would be. If only one photo was taken, say number 4 above, then the extreme front and rear of the bike wouldn't be seen straight on. For a bike it wouldn't be a big deal but I shot everything this way and did the right side, left side, front, rear, top and (for four-wheeled vehicles) the underside. The camera with a 300mm lens was very carefully set up on a tripod with it centered on the height of the vehicle and placed about 100' away. I'd shoot photo 1, move the camera 1' to the right. Shoot photo 2, move the camera 1' to the right...and so on. Then I'd develop the film and make an enlargement of each. I'd manually paste together a strip of photo 1 aligned with a strip of photo 2 aligned with a strip of photo 3...and so on to make a composite that was sent off to the tooling model builders. Shooting the top view was accomplished by climbing onto the roof of a garage with an open door and hanging out to shoot straight down. Somebody would then hold the bike perfectly vertical and slowly walk it through the doorway, stopping every 1' for me to shoot a pic.
In the early years of computer aided drafting (CAD) the car companies wouldn't let us have the files* so I had to continue shooting photos. In the early 2000s Maisto made a series of 1/64 General Motors concept cars. Maisto flew me back to Detroit and GM gave me a couple of hours to shoot several cars one day before they were to be shown for the first time. The cars were arranged in a spherical dome display building at the styling center. There wasn't time or space for me to use a tripod and I couldn't touch the cars or place my dimension card on or near them. So, I freehanded all of the photos. GM did give me one big perk: a bucket lift with an expert operator. That guy was amazing! For the straight-down shots he aligned it parallel with each vehicle and swung me over the centerline of each car about 30' above then advanced about 2' at a time for me to shoot. I was petrified at dropping the camera -- if I had it would have damaged a one-off car a day before it had to be shown in perfect condition.
*they wouldn't say why but I'll speculate that they were afraid of them getting into the hands of counterfeiters in China where much of our model building, tooling and manufacturing was done.
The photography involved in your work is fascinating to me! You had mentioned Zee photography earlier. Did you also do photographs of the completed castings for them or for Maisto? If so, what type of set up did you use for the small scale items?
I shot lots of toy photos for Zee Toys. Before joining them in 1982 I had a dozen years of experience building models and shooting how-to photos for freelanced model car and model train magazines. Early on it was as simple as a piece of 8-1/2" x 11" white copier paper taped to a box to create a curved background. Lights were a couple of photo lamps on stands with multi-hundred watt bulbs. When needed, I'd use pieces of white cardboard as reflectors and tracing paper as diffusers...and hoped that I wouldn't start a fire from the heat of those bulbs. The sales department often wanted photos of the latest hand-decorated samples of new products. I shot photos of tooling models and the custom things that we built as a record in case the actual models got lost or damaged. A professional photographer shot the catalog photos but sometimes when we were were close to the printer's deadline with new items I would take those photos.
After the Intex years we had a proper photo area with a seamless paper holder, softbox and electronic flash units at the Zyll Hong Kong office. I was still using film cameras until 2003 at Maisto. The first digital camera was a Sony but within a few years we moved on to Canon SLRs. Boy, those really saved time and trouble...along with Photoshop to fix boo-boos!
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